Some Random Thoughts to Newer Makers

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Every so often I post a thread on things and trends i have observed on this forum. Lately I have been seeing a lot of brand new, or fairly new, makers who are asking questions that defy logic.
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Please note:
I am not intending to insult anyone ! This thread is for the purpose of provoking thought to new makers, and not to criticize them. If you recognize yourself in a reference, rest assured that there will be several others who think it is them I am referring to.Also, be assured I am not making fun of you.

The problem I have been observing is the asking of very basic questions. These are the type of things covered by a side note/diagram in a knife supply catalog, or in the most rudimentary knife construction article. Every knife making book or tutorial will cover these questions,too.

Some examples:
How do I put a handle on a knife?
When do i sharpen a knife - before or after HT?
How do pins work?
Where can I buy wood?
Where can I buy steel?
I got some steel from the hardware store. What kind is it? Will it make a good knife?
Can I do HT in my kitchen oven.
...............................

The simplicity of these questions is not the real reason that I am making this post. I understand that many new makers ( especially those of very young years) are not desiring to read a book or on-line article, and just prefer to ask the question.

What is the BIG problem with the trend I am seeing is the second line of these posters - such as:
I have completed my first sword, and want to know how to put a handle on it?
I have made my first knife and glued the handle on, will the HT hurt the wood?
I cut myself three times sharpening the knife LOL when I do the HT, will I have to do anything else, afterward?
I did a back yard HT in my campfire, and am trying to drill the holes in the handle. It ruined six drill bits !!!
I glued the handle on and the drill goes through the wood fine, but won't touch the steel? Whats the problem?
...............................

Fellow forumites - If you wish to make a knife, I applaud you for the desire to learn a new skill. However, I encourage you to learn what you are supposed to do before rushing in and trying it. It is a complete process. You can't start at the beginning without understanding the ending. The old adage, "Learn to walk before you try to run." also applies to many newer makers.

If you have a rudimentary question, do a google search on the topic, or better, get a book and read it. Don't start the knife project until you have studied the task and understand the principles involved. The place to think about steel selection is before you have ground out the knife, not after. The place to decide on handle types and mounting techniques is before the knife is started, and definitely before HT.

I could go on, but I think you can see where I am coming from.

My final comment is this -
Would you like to go to a doctor who, after opening up your abdomen, asks a nurse, "Now how do I cut out the appendix?"
or says, "There, all done. Now ,anyone know how to suture the incision up?"
or, Gee, that sure is a lot of blood, I wonder where it is all coming from?"

Stacy

OK, One more comment:
hi i wan 2 mak knivs an hav sum ides hehe i tried to use a fill and it was to had t 2 cut wasupwidtaht lol

This is not a way to post a question. Please learn to use proper punctuation and spelling (spell check is your friend).
Stacy
 
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I'm guilty of asking stupid questions. My main problem was that I DID see the newbie links, but I was looking for one specific answer, and I didn't want to waste my time reading though 20 pages to find it, so I asked. It eventually got answered. Then, I learned that if I had just read though the newbie links, it would answer a bunch of my later questions too.
 
" i dont hav a vise and i hold the blade in mi hand and the grunder got caut in mi pants and i was wondr how how u folks stop bleding lol"
 
You have made very good points. The best thing I did was buy a How to Make Knives book that showed you the steps in order from steel selection to putting an edge. Then researched the steps, and right before I started I posted what I was planning on doing and asked if there were any gotchas. I highly recommend that new guys buy a book first and like bladsmth mentioned don't rush in expecting to make a knife before dinner. It takes alot of time to make a good knife.

-frank
 
Most new knifemakers do not want to spend time reading a book, or in my case, don't have much money to buy a book. Because of this, I have to decipher tons of web pages to try to find any information. Speaking of books though, do you think a library would have any books that would be helpful?
 
go mike said:
Speaking of books though, do you think a library would have any books that would be helpful?
Click to expand...

Only one way to find out! I'm lucky, my local library has several good ones on the shelves.

As far as money goes... I don't think that's much of an excuse. $25 or less for a copy of "$50 Dollar Knife Shop" or "How to Make Knives" is a very small investment that will save you money by helping you avoid mistakes.
 
I think a lot of this sort of thing comes from the "instant gratification" generation that we seem to be living in more and more these days. Thinking back on my career as a Bladesmith, I sought out all the help I could find, and wrecked a lot of material before I ever came up with anything that could be called a knife. With the availability of the internet, there is more information on knives and knifemaking available than at any time in history. All it takes is a little thought about what to search for, and a little time finding it.

I try to always remember where I started, and how long it has taken to get where I am today. During those years I came to understand that this is an ever evolving vocation. Everyday you open the shop door, you learn something new, and NONE OF US, know it all.

I admit that very often I will simply skip over a thread when the title portrays that the writer obviously took no effort what so ever to find the information (such as the examples Stacy gave). When I see a thread title something like..... "Tried this, but can't make it work...need help", I am much more inclined to view/respond, than one that simply says "How do I....." Not trying to be mean, but when I see a title like that, it gives me the impression that the person is lazy, and just doesn't want to work for what they want.
 
AMEN! thank ya! I have been so tempted to post "Google %$#@! CAN YOU USE IT?" on many of those. . . This needs to be made a sticky!

Jason
 
Learning knife making is far easier today than it ever was. Books, ,forums [especially tutorials] and for the reading challenged a number of excellent DVDs.There's no excuse for not using these resources.
You might notice that I don't get involved with certain threads .These are the type where the info is readily available in the above sources, but the poster is too lazy to look.
 
Yup...and that was a big part of the thread I started yesterday....about using the Heading...HOW-TO, RECOMMENDATIONS< and TUTORIALS

I agree with everything you just said and would like to add what I said on my thread.

It would be great to have a NEWBIE area...just like the "AROUND THE GRINDER" .

That way NEWBIES can research,build their knowledge and have aplace to ask those question so it won't tie up space in the MAKERS area with questions that show somebody has not done their homework.

Shane
 
go mike said:
Most new knifemakers do not want to spend time reading a book, or in my case, don't have much money to buy a book. Because of this, I have to decipher tons of web pages to try to find any information. Speaking of books though, do you think a library would have any books that would be helpful?
Click to expand...

If you cannot afford a book , how can you afford the materials to make a knife ?
 
I agree with what has been said. But I remember first starting and being eager to learn everything, and I think the search function on this forum causes some of those questions. If they go straight to the search and it doesn't work they post the question working on a one track mind not seeing the newbie sticky. I realize they can still use google, but they've found a knife website so they keep searching this site.
 
I have a big double AMEN for this thread. For instance, In the last couple of weeks there have been numerous questions on where do I buy knife steel? and Where to get handle material? At one point there was two of each of these questions on one page. I don't mind hepling a person out in fact I enjoy helping but like Ed C. said above I have started skipping posts made by people that won't take the time to read the newbies thread or look through the last page or two here. Maybe we should all just start posting something like read the newbies thread to these questions posts.

thanks Stacey for bringing this to the surface. Also Shanes thread about the use of Headers should be considered.
 
In the film Labyrinth the main character Sarah is frustrated trying to get information out of the dwarf Hoggle. She complains that it's no use asking him anything and he replies "Not if you ask the right question!"

I get newbie questions all the time and mostly I just point them towards a book. If someone is asking the question because they don't want to spend the time researching it, then why should they think it appropriate to impose on MY time?? The questions I find interesting and will happily answer are the ones that show that someone has done their homework, they've exhausted the resources available, they've made some serious efforts and have actually come up against a genuine difficulty. If it's a difficulty I have faced then perhaps I have insights into it. Sometimes it's a difficulty I have faced and still not overcome myself, in which case I am more than happy to collaborate and seek to solve it together. But the key to this is that if you want answers, you need to ask the right questions!
 
The thing that gets me is the number of people that can't afford to buy steel, or books, etc., however they have the funds for high speed internet. I know, they might be in a library using free internet, or are young enough that they aren't yet working and their parents provide the internet. I've yet to go into a library that didn't have a few books on knifemaking though. The newbie thread here has "all" of the basic questions already answered too.

I usually wait on the "how do I....?" threads until I understand a little from the back and forth that goes on in the thread. I'm kinda like Ed Caffrey in this regard, but still read the thread so that I can make a determination as to whether or not I should jump in. Usually though, the question or questions get answered and I don't find a need to jump in.

I hope the newbies here don't take offense to this thread. I've been the recipient of some excellent assistance from Stacy in the past, and have great respect for him. When Stacy sees a newbie that is very eager, and follows his suggestions to read all the stickies at the top and a few books, he has many times then stepped up to the plate and offered to give the newbie steel, handle supplies, etc., in order to get them started with the proper materials. I've even seen him offer up tools (files, etc.) to the newbie, in addition to the materials. He's a class act and gets a huge :thumbup: from me!
 
Tom Maringer, it is good to see you posting here. It is even better to see you making knives again!
Many of the makers don't often venture into other areas of Bladeforums. I hope you will occasionally post a few of your creations here in Shoptalk or the Knifemaker's Gallery.

Much good has been said in this thread so far. Bill's comment about seeing the same thread started twice on the same page by different people is an important example. It recognizes that some people don't bother reading here regularly, only asking questions pertinent to the thought they have in their head at the moment. If people aren't willing to do some reading, at the very least here on this forum, and take the opportunity to absorb the huge amount of info that has been offered, then I quickly lose interest in helping them.
 
bladsmth said:
It is a complete process. You can't start at the beginning without understanding the ending.
Stacy
Click to expand...

You also can't start at the end and end at the beginning.

Also, Thread headers could use some work in some cases.

"Need Help!"
"Question"
"How do I"

are poor examples of thread headers.

I like to be able to more-or-less determine if a thread is something I can help with by the header. I know by looking at the header "need help with CPM 154 HT" that I can't help so I probably won't even bother looking because I don't use that particular metal either.

On the same token if I am posting a question I prefer not waste the time of the more knowledgeable folks here so I try to make my header as descriptive as possible.
 
Ryan Minchew said:
I agree with what has been said. But I remember first starting and being eager to learn everything, and I think the search function on this forum causes some of those questions. If they go straight to the search and it doesn't work they post the question working on a one track mind not seeing the newbie sticky. I realize they can still use google, but they've found a knife website so they keep searching this site.
Click to expand...

Maybe for the non paying members, the "Search" button could redirect the newbies to either the Google direct search of the forums OR the Newbie thread. That would be one for the moderators or whomever does the programming on the site.
 
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