Some Random Thoughts to Newer Makers

Hey Stacy and Friends,

I guess I'm guilty of another sort of laziness. I used to feel compelled to try and answer some of the rather remedial noob questions. I did this as a small gesture of appreciation for all the help I've received here and to help offload some of the "burden" of response from some of the more advanced makers. Lately I haven't been doing that, due in part to just being pretty darn busy. But also, I guess, with some of the questions, I just haven't felt "seduced" enough.

I know the phenomena of not wanting to read and research and otherwise undertake scholarly activities. When I was a computer networking engineer and consultant many a time I would be hired, quite literally, to read through a clients' manual's on their latest hardware or software and then teach them how to use it. In fact, when I was interviewing prospective coworkers one of my most key questions would be, "what would you do if you're out in the field on a service call and can't figure out what to do to solve the problem?" The final answer I was looking for was, "call somebody who does." Of course, this was predicated on making an effort at figuring out the answer themselves first, but not to the point of causing further damage, which was my main concern.

The challenge of limited resources (money) is also understandable, but the lack of investing one's mind, one's time, one's will, one's enthusiasm, etc...is not. I have borrowed every knife making book in the state of Hawaiia's library system more than once...and it did not cost me one cent. I have looked in every bookstore I have been in for years where ever I go to see what might be on the shelves. I've bought a few, but many I just perused right in the store. I've spent literally hundreds of hours searching and reading on the web. I've taken a community college welding class and gone to a couple blacksmithing conferences. I've met up with some great knife makers, gotten a good amount of deeply appreciated help and new friendships. I've even spent a few hours working at making knives. :D

So...this is to say, thanks for putting up with my fledgling efforts and questions. This is to say welcome to the new folks and encourage you to keep at it and take as full advantage of this forum as possible. That especially includes reading through newbie threads, which in of themselves lead to many additional threads on numerous knifemaking topics. Also seaching through the existing threads is invaluable. I guess you have to get a basic membership ($10) to do that or use google's site searching feature. I do both. The volume of info in these existing threads is staggering. Please do ask questions too, just make them mindful ones vested with as much or more of your own efforts as the responders will contribute.

All the best, Phil
 
I just want to know what happened to "paying your dues"???? It seems every new maker thinks they should be earning $20/hour for their shop rate. I could be wrong but I don't see people putting their time in to develop a "name' they just charge ahead and charge the same money as a known maker. These same guys don't even know the names of knife parts much less basic techniques, they do some really cute marketing gimmicks and I guess pray that a customer really doesn't have to put their knife to use. Most of them would be really hard to use because of design anyways so I guess it's a moot point.

I dunno... awww hell.
 
bladsmth said:
Good to see the consensus is pretty much unanimous.
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I'm not surprised that I don't have much, or any, back-up here, as those effected would be reluctant to post after your dissertation...but to me, your message was clear...go away with your stupid questions....if that's not arrogance....
My point is this, if you believe these questions by newbies are so "rudimentary", why not just ignore them?...they still get answered by those who care to. Why do you feel that their questions have to be validated by you??
 
rayban said:
I'm not surprised that I don't have much, or any, back-up here, as those effected would be reluctant to post after your dissertation...but to me, your message was clear...go away with your stupid questions....if that's not arrogance....
My point is this, if you believe these questions by newbies are so "rudimentary", why not just ignore them?...they still get answered by those who care to. Why do you feel that their questions have to be validated by you??
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Aren't you the same guy that doesn't care if people if people know you are selling kit knives as a handmade?
 
If I were to have read this post when I wanted to start knifemaking I would have still done it. I think I may have researched a little better before posting questions. I would have been nervouse in getting a negative response. Its like when I was learning the ropes at my 9-5 job. I was embarrassed to ask questions about different processes in estimating and quoting out potential projects. I felt that maybe there was something that I could have learned on my own and should'nt be asking such a simple question. After a while I found out what I needed to know, but after making a mistake or two. If i would've just asked the question then I would not have made the mistake. This thread will make the newbies ( myself included) not ask, or hopefully think before they post a question. Hopefully the think before.

I think the newbie thread needs to be updated and maybe a sticky with some good books about knifemaking.

just my 2 pesos

-frank
 
Rayban this is an example of arrogance...
STFU_NOOB.jpg


asking a noob to find a book, or find some other form of reference like the Stickies at the top of the forum. is not arrogance, nor is it arrogance to slow the noobs roll to a make them think clearly and throughly through the processes it takes to build a knife. also to check their intent... are they just inlove with the idea or are they serious in learning the processes involved. threads with titles like "how do i attach a handle" and I bought some homedepot/lowes steel ... shows only the fact that the person was to immature to educate himself on proper blade steels and the purveyors thereof, and lack of self control in the hardware store. I hope you take this to heart and learn from it, most folks here dont say negative things to knock down but rather to build up. and it's true here in this instance as well. do some hard thinking on these things. Thank you for reading.

Jason
 
That is one of the funniest pictures I've seen in a bit... the look on the pup's face is hilarious... thanks :D
 
rayban,
I think you are missing my point. I am glad to answer their questions, and spend a lot of time (often too much) in the answers. It was the rush to get started before they asked these basic questions, not the questions, that was the concern. As you suggested, I usually don't reply to a basic question unless there is some technique or other information that may be of use to others in the answer.

I don't know your age or much about you (profile info?) ,but, for example, if your history professor was to tell you to go read a book on the Civil War ,it would not be considered arrogant,even though he could tell you the answer without you reading it. It is in that reading that you will obtain a fuller understanding of the subject, and perhaps learn other things that were not in your question.

I know I am wordy, that comes from a lifetime of teaching skills to others. My posts are meant to help others, not glorify me. I apologize if I have come off as arrogant to you.
Stacy

Please guys, don't blast rayban for his comments. He may have taken my intent wrong. Even if he didn't, and he considers my posting as arrogant, it is his opinion, and he has the right to it. When we descend into name calling and such, we lower ourselves and the quality of this forum. That is why I used Tai as an example. He and Kevin often are diametrically opposed, but rarely descend to name calling or insults.

Stacy
 
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bladsmth said:
rayban,
I think you are missing my point. I am glad to answer their questions, and spend a lot of time (often too much) in the answers. It was the rush to get started before they asked these basic questions, not the questions, that was the concern. As you suggested, I usually don't reply to a basic question unless there is some technique or other information that may be of use to others in the answer.

I don't know your age or much about you (profile info?) ,but, for example, if your history professor was to tell you to go read a book on the Civil War ,it would not be considered arrogant,even though he could tell you the answer without you reading it. It is in that reading that you will obtain a fuller understanding of the subject, and perhaps learn other things that were not in your question.

I know I am wordy, that comes from a lifetime of teaching skills to others. My posts are meant to help others, not glorify me. I apologize if I have come off as arrogant to you.
Stacy

Please guys, don't blast rayban for his comments. He may have taken my intent wrong. Even if he didn't, and he considers my posting as arrogant, it is his opinion, and he has the right to it. When we descend into name calling and such, we lower ourselves and the quality of this forum. That is why I used Tai as an example. He and Kevin often are diametrically opposed, but rarely descend to name calling or insults.

Stacy
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You are too kind Stacy . God bless you for it . He is a jerk (sorry , the devil made me do it )
 
can anyone tell me how to tell the difference between an 1/8'' bit and a 3/32'' bit?:confused:


















sorry the devil made me do it as well;)

:D
 
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WOAH!!!

I think a lot of people have spoken a lot of really good points. I would like to weigh in myself, as being rather new at this, I have a bit of a unique perspective on the "newbie question" phenomenon.

One very important point that cannot be overlooked is Ed's point on P1 ofd this thread about instant gratification. This is an especially true factor with those of use who are in my generation and younger, being the under 30 crowd.

However, there is another problem at work here too. Most of the stickies and newbie guides are so chock full of great information, that it's a little overwhelming. Topping that off, most of the stuff in those threads can be very confusing for a rank novice. Topping that problem off, many of the articles and tutorials contradict one another.

Having been around long enough to recognize many of the contradictions as different people's own stylistic differences, and understanding that these differences often exist with relatively well thought out reasons, I still understand and remember well how overwhelming and confusing it was to be faced with a whole new vocabulary, and so much information I couldn't even begin to know where to start.

Often enough, asking one of these basic "newbie" questions is basically a veiled "help! I have no idea where to start!". You gotta remember that people still have their ego's to contend with, and while this makes no logical sense to the superego, it can nonetheless be uncomfortably humbling to openly and broadly admit that you find the whole basis of the culture and craft more than a little intimidating.


Combine the overwhelming glut of confusing and sometimes contradictory information with the urge towards instant gratification, and you get someone like me, who, rather than reason through the problem thoroughly, and then go seek confirmation that the only truly viable theory I had was, in fact the explanation for the problem, I instead posted the basics of the situation here and let the resident experts tell me what I should be able to figure out on my own.


However, all that said, I do have to say that Stacy has a great point about understanding before attempting. There are some safety concerns that go with this craft, and if you don't understand them, you could end up quite badly injured.

I also have to say that I have yet to meet a single arrogant knifemaker. I know there are some out there, but the crowd that hangs around on these boards doesn't include any that I know of.
 
Ohhhhh we're all arrogant around our grinders and anvils but go to a knife show or if you could see the maker after he puts a knife up for sale and it's all like "like my knife, like me... if you like my knife you like me" :p

It's the weekend, we should be enjoying our shops and family. I'm just checking in here in between sanding sessions with my 10 year old daughter on her Awana Pine Derby Car :thumbup:

To those that help bless you and yours, to those that cast stones without helping... kiss my a@@ I think that sums up my position rather clearly :D
 
Will Leavitt said:
Ohhhhh we're all arrogant around our grinders and anvils but go to a knife show or if you could see the maker after he puts a knife up for sale and it's all like "like my knife, like me... if you like my knife you like me" :p

It's the weekend, we should be enjoying our shops and family. I'm just checking in here in between sanding sessions with my 10 year old daughter on her Awana Pine Derby Car :thumbup:

To those that help bless you and yours, to those that cast stones without helping... kiss my a@@ I think that sums up my position rather clearly :D
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me 2 will, im in the middle of building the 1st sat of the month home depot projects, thats a hell of a deal they have for kids, mine been going for about 3 yrs or so.

double race track this month with 2 little wooden cars,
 
Will Leavitt said:
Aren't you the same guy that doesn't care if people if people know you are selling kit knives as a handmade?
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No....that's not me...try something else.

Maybe you should all try this.....ask the powers that be on this forum to have a little check mark thingy that says...
"please respond to my post, but only if you agree with me"....that way you would not have jerks like me interfering with your ass kissing fest.
 
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rayban said:
No....that's not me...try something else.

Maybe you should all try this.....ask the powers that be on this forum to have a little check mark thingy that says...
"please respond to my post, but only if you agree with me"....that way you would not have jerks like me interfering with your ass kissing fest.
Click to expand...

...then there's guys like me...I'll buy or trade for a blade that someone else made, slap some handles on it, make a sheath for it, show it to someone who thinks it's really cool, offers me $x for it, sold, they don't care where it's been....it's still called a knife.
I had fun doing it, and have some beer money in my pocket....and I don't really care what others have to say about it....
__________________
rgleather.freehomepage.com


Yes you are that guy.... remember this post? There is an ignore function... I kiss noone's ass cept my wife's and hers is a very shapely ass. You only crawl out of your hole for threads like this, in Shoptalk you've only posted to say "there's some wood to be had on ebay" and a few others along the same vein, I can't see where you've done much to help advance knifemaking other to cast stones at people that have a lot more intellectual energy expended.
 
Oh yeah.. I'm sorry, I misspoke. Your contribution to advancing knifemaking involved inviting Michigan makers to come over and use your 1x42 or whatever size grinder, heated garage and eat donuts.
 
Hey Mark, perhaps we better lock this thread. It was not my intention for it to get into personalities and name calling.

Dan summed it up;
I have no problem with any question...no matter how basic (there is no such thing as a dumb question), it was the problem with starting a knife/sword before asking those basic questions.

Lets give this a rest now folks.
Stacy
 
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