Some Random Thoughts to Newer Makers

I don't remember seeing much to the effect of "the newb are wasting our time" but rather "the newbs are wasting their own time, and possibly putting themselves in danger while they're at it".

Since it may be relatively easy to get confused over the internet as to the intent that could be better conveyed by vocal inflection and facial expression, let us please try to give one another the benefit of the doubt.

Being a newb myself, I read, understood, and appreciate the point of this thread. I'll give you an example:

Several months back I wanted to make a crossguard for a sword I was working on. I had made several knives (ok, I completed three, and scrapped about a dozen at various points of their development) and wanted to stretch my legs a little into something unfamiliar and challenging.

I had made some small knife guards and bolsters, basically by stock removal, and for this project, I didn't have anything big enough. However, I did have some broken brass scrap, and I decided to try and cast it.

Idid a minimum of reading, just enough to hurt myself with. I made a mold out of plaister, with candlewax for the negative, and insufficient sprues. I cooked off the mold on my propane deck grill, followed by my oven up to 500* F, then my forge. I melted the brass in my forge, with a stainless steel measuring cup for a crucible. I used a rich atmosphere to keep the stainless cup from scaling to death and pouring the brass all over my forge floor. When I pulled the molten brass out to pour into the mold, it immediately ignited, with green flame pouring off the top, and a thick white smoke billowing all around.

I held my breath, poured the brass into the mold, killed the forge, and booked outside. Thick white smoke is never a good sign, and I was smart enough not to breath it. As it turns out, it was Zinc Oxide fumes, and could have made me very ill or dead. That's of course, based on the fact that I was lucky enough that my mold didn't give way forcefully, splashing me with molten brass, or any of the other thousand things that could have gone wrong.

The crossguard I had meant to cast came out like crap. I keep it as a reminder that I shouldn't leap before I look.

That is exactly the message I took from this thread. Look first, Think. Look again. Then, from an informed position, ask for guidance while you leap.
 
bladsmth said:
Hey Mark, perhaps we better lock this thread. It was not my intention for it to get into personalities and name calling.

Stacy
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Nah, Let's not lock this thread. It gives us a chance to see how some folks are.

Those that can contribute will continue to do so. Those that seem to have a chip on their shoulders will eventually fall by the wayside.

If these people come across as being so miserable on a forum, I can only imagine what their real life must be.

Thanks Stacy for starting this thread. Thanks Will for calling a spade a spade. Thanks to all the others who contribute so much. I would be lost without you.

If I can ever help anyone, noob or not, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Robert
 
I am a reading fool. I will read anything that could help my skills. I love to help any one i can but i think that its inportint to do research. i have taught the knife making basicks to many. but that came with one stipulation and that was for them to read a book i would let them barow. I even made Bubba-Doll read it. It made our knife talks very fun and productive.
 
Yeah J.... I'm sure how Bubba-Doll looks in a bikini has nothing to do with the productivity of the talks.... Honey, Please, I NEED you to model this knife.. baby? Look, all my customers DEMAND more Bubba-Doll... please? Sigh, I'll go to see Sex in the City with you, honey? Okay, dinner too, yeah at a nice place this time...pullleezzee? :p

Robert, I dunno if I'm calling a spade a spade but some people just bring out the redneck in this ole Japanese Redneck. Me and Charlie need to come up there to see you, you coming to Batson's this year? We need to start a Batson's thread soon.
 
I had made a hundred knives before I felt confident enough to post here.

The first fifty knives that I made were given to friends to test for me to see if I was learning.

The next fifty were passable, pretty much.

What I learned in the first hundred knives was there was a great deal that I did not know.

I carved knives out of wood. A cheap imitation to learn from.

I asked questions along the way; but I did it sparingly. You don't want to wear out your welcome. It happens.:(

Most people who are serious about this enjoy learning and acquiring skills as much as making knives. They go together.

Starting out, I think it is important to inspire oneself, by making discoveries and trying new things in your shop.
You don't need a blueprint, only the desire to learn.

We have had people on this forum that have bought knife maker status that had never made a knife. That seems a bit presumptive to me.

My advise, ask smart questions primarily ones that have not been answered a dozen times during the week, by some very patient people.:D

Good thread Stacy; but don't let it get personal people.

Fred
 
I've wanted to make knives since I took the rust off of one I found in the back shed (6 or 7 years old).I relied on what info I could find with my half hours at the library internet.
I was 18 before I found my first book on knife making ($50 dollar knife shop) and have bought 5 or 6 more since then.

I only made my first knife last year with the one on one guidance of a professional knifemaker.

And I have only been aware of these forums for a few months.
So my experience makes me strongly agree that some sought of grounding or knowledge base should be gained at the beginning.

It has meant that I can read these forums with a fair understanding of what is being said (even if it is years before I can try the same things) and has meant I could make my first knife with out as many delays for explanations for some steps and procedures.

So I think other beginners like myself must realise it may take time, it may take some study and homework but it will pay off in the end.

I know some of my questions probally seem a bit simple as well and I thank those experienced members who have helped me.
At other times I think some people just prove that knowledge is knowing how little you actually know.

If you only know that a knife is made by heating steel. It is very hard to ask the right questions and to know how much more there is that you are missing.

I guess we all start somewhere... that doesn't mean we all started at the same spot but it does mean we all have to put some of our own effort in to get to the finish. Nothing worth having comes free.
 
I have read all 4 pages and the only thing I'm going to say is-Stacy, I think you are a good man, Please [for all of us ] keep it up. That is, just the way you have always been.
Jerry
 
Will Leavitt said:
Ohhhhh we're all arrogant around our grinders and anvils but go to a knife show or if you could see the maker after he puts a knife up for sale and it's all like "like my knife, like me... if you like my knife you like me" :p

It's the weekend, we should be enjoying our shops and family. I'm just checking in here in between sanding sessions with my 10 year old daughter on her Awana Pine Derby Car :thumbup:

To those that help bless you and yours, to those that cast stones without helping... kiss my a@@ I think that sums up my position rather clearly :D
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I love those pine wood derby cars Will. I used to be Royal Ranger Commander and we made them every year for 10 years. The boys and parents had a great time together. Thanks for the memories.
 
I'm back from manning the phones at the telethon.

Good catch, John. I'm not sure what was happening there. The end was partially left off. I think I restructured the sentences and didn't change the punctuation.

The mods tell me I can lock this myself, as a platinum member. Since it has gone back to civil posting, I'll leave it up. If it descends into name calling and insults, I'll lock it.

Good night gents (and ladies),
Stacy
 
Arrogant, yes, from time to time there are arrogant folks here. Some are famous and some unknown. They should not be arrogant, and they are usually called down for their comments when they are.
I will give one example, because he can take the criticism, and because I respect him for his ability, not his personality - Tai Goo. Tai is a unique individual. He is part of what makes this place multi-faceted and multi-cultural. At times many here may want to strangle Tai, but we all read his posts....why???? because he has his view point to make, and we all respect him for that ( we may not all agree with his point of view). His work is artful and reflects his life. I am glad he is here.
Now, when Tai gets arrogant, the community will usually step in and politely (well, occasionally not so politely) ask him to knock it off.....which he usually does. That shows the true spirit of cooperation that abounds here. When he has a particular topic that is burning him up, he usually posts his own thread in response.
( Tai, my apologies for singling you out, but I believe you understand the intent of my comments not to be an insult.)
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Not defending Tai here, even though he and are friends and collaborators, but rather to point out the "personality" of someone on the forums is not always the personality of that individual in real life..........ask any of Tai's students how arrogant he is........and yep when I first "met" him on the forums (many years after I knew of his knifemaking skills) I wondered sometimes who do you think your are? But then one day I just up and called him and...........
The point I'm trying to make here is that making assumptions or judging someone/anyone based just on a screen personality is one those things we must be leery of, because it isn't always a fair judgement....

Overall I think Stacy's point is a good one and if you think finding info is hard on this forum or on the net - try it back in the 1960's and 1970's when many if not most of the old timers wouldn't give you the time of day (we have gents like Bill Moran, Jim Hrisoulsas, and a few others to thank for changing that) and as for finding knifemaking books - good luck.......
FWIW - I learned how to make knifes from my Dad, a master machinist, way back in 1961 - a year later I had the good luck of "apprenticing" with a black smith who also made knives and I never looked back.......
I never was much involved with what today is known as the "custom knife world" except peripherally since my greatest love is historic/frontier styles and thus did most of my sales to re-enactors and collectors of that genre since there wasn't a whole lot of interest for my style back then except for a few excepetions like Walt Kneubuhler (sp?).
I did read all of the knife rags though over the years since I plain loved knives and that's where I first "met" Tai (around 1983) and many others, some still around, but many others whose names have faded away with time - maybe not so oddly after some 50 years at this "game" the same questions are being asked and the same arguments are still going on.......sometimes seems like each new generation has to re-invent the wheel so to speak and the old guys tend to dig their heels in at times, but even with all of that - making knives is still a driving passion for me and IMO it's all good whether it be hi-tech, lo-tech, or anything in between - anytime I get my knickers in a knot over something on the forums, I just remember that guy on the other side of the screen is another knifemaker and loves it just as much as I do - whether in a different way or not doesn't (and shouldn't) make a difference - it's still all good doings whether it's your cup of tea or not...

Anyway enough rambling -buenas noches mi amigos from the high up country of SW Colorado..........
 
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I don't have a problem with people asking questions. I always try to reply if I think I have information that will help.

I DO have a problem with people who think that they are ENTITLED to information free of charge and that it is OUR JOB to provide it - especially when it's basic information that a minimum amount of research or a small investment in a couple of how-to books could provide.

This is especially true when the people in question can't even be bothered typing in something approximating standard English. I don't have the time or the inclination to try to decipher "texting" language.
 
A. Brett Schaller said:
I don't have a problem with people asking questions. I always try to reply if I think I have information that will help.

I DO have a problem with people who think that they are ENTITLED to information free of charge and that it is OUR JOB to provide it - especially when it's basic information that a minimum amount of research or a small investment in a couple of how-to books could provide.

This is especially true when the people in question can't even be bothered typing in something approximating standard English. I don't have the time or the inclination to try to decipher "texting" language.
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exactly:)
 
Will Leavitt said:
Yeah J.... I'm sure how Bubba-Doll looks in a bikini has nothing to do with the productivity of the talks.... Honey, Please, I NEED you to model this knife.. baby? Look, all my customers DEMAND more Bubba-Doll... please? Sigh, I'll go to see Sex in the City with you, honey? Okay, dinner too, yeah at a nice place this time...pullleezzee? :p

Robert, I dunno if I'm calling a spade a spade but some people just bring out the redneck in this ole Japanese Redneck. Me and Charlie need to come up there to see you, you coming to Batson's this year? We need to start a Batson's thread soon.
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Hay now Will if you keep blabbing my secret then bubba-doll might catch wind of it and cut me off ;). She really is a good girl and i am very lucky to have found her. She took me snow boarding yesterday (friday) and man my whole body was sore :(. But today she made it better, She is a massage therapist :D and she gave me a full body massage and man let me tell you she has magic hands. Man I'm a lucky lucky man i tell you.
 
JTknives said:
Hay now Will if you keep blabbing my secret then bubba-doll might catch wind of it and cut me off ;). She really is a good girl and i am very lucky to have found her. She took me snow boarding yesterday (friday) and man my whole body was sore :(. But today she made it better, She is a massage therapist :D and she gave me a full body massage and man let me tell you she has magic hands. Man I'm a lucky lucky man i tell you.
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To quote one of my best friends, "you seeeeeee." So where did y'all eat for dinner? :D
 
I've sure come in at the tail of a valuable discussion, and eventually I'll come back to read through it all; my apology for duplicating anyone else's thoughts, as I have not read through all the posts here.

I agree with Stacy; research what you're going to do before you do anything. My best example is remodeling a bathroom. That job took me five months; I took the room all the way down to the subfloor because that's what it was going to take to do the job right. Believe me - most of that five months was trying to figure out how to do all those tasks I had never done before, or even seen done. I'd sit in there for hours thinking about how I was going to lay out the tile, for example, or fix that hole in the wall where I'd taken out the medicine cabinet. I did a lot of reading and asking questions and thinking and planning, and only a few days worth of actual work. It paid off; the bathroom looks really nice and is a fairly professional job. Except that point when I didn't realize how important it was going to be to get the ceramic tiles under the toilet exactly level with each other! The toilet rocks, and believe me, that is a learning experience... :D

Do your research and thinking, before you do your doing. You'll be glad you did.

Thanks Stacy.
 
Having said all of these things, new makers shouldn't be discouraged from asking questions. Yes, some independant research should be done though.
 
She really is a good girl and i am very lucky to have found her. She took me snow boarding yesterday (friday) and man my whole body was sore . But today she made it better, She is a massage therapist and she gave me a full body massage and man let me tell you she has magic hands. Man I'm a lucky lucky man i tell you.
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JT, I can't begin to tell you how much I hate you just now.;):D

But keep those pics of the... (cough)... knives... coming!:)
 
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