Some Random Thoughts to Newer Makers

Karl: your just out of luck.
I'm still looken for those files Stacy
vern
 
You guys could actually make it easier on yourself, and spend less time here combing through posts. Make this a paid only, or vetted membership site.

As a professional remodeler and repair contractor, I also do professional finishing and refinishing. The only way to learn really good finishing is to do it - it takes years. I used to belong to a subscription/invitation only site for professional finishers, and it was great.

There was a time in the finishing business when there seemed to be a flood of new superhot commercial finishes, that resulted in the need to upgrade all our equipment and application protocols. It was fun and exciting, but it was also expensive to participate in the new ways. And a mistake in finishing can cost hundreds or (think a custom kitchen) thousands.

So nothing was more annoying than to have someone post "I just got my new HVLP system and tried to spray conversion lacquer on my daughter's bookcase but my finish is cloudy. What did I do wrong? How can I fix it?"

A topic of that nature addresses so many variables it boggles the mind. The posters don't even understand the vernacular involved to ask the question correctly, much less understand the proper answer.

I switched forums a couple of times. Then I found the solution mentioned above that might be a good one here. I joined a different kind of forum. Public, but not really.

You could not join the forum unless you were a professional, with a professional address and phone number. You could not join the forum unless you were invited OR the moderator reviewed several of your questions and answers to determine whether or not they were forum appropriate. And you could not freely post anything until the moderator had reviewed (10?) your posts for content and accuracy. In the end, your participation may or may not be accepted.

The signal to noise ratio was great. Although there wasn't a lot of activity, the amount of advanced information passed back and forth was staggering.

I enjoy reading the posts here because I appreciate any craft and love my pocketknives. And Lord knows there are some brilliant craftsmen here. But I certainly understand the frustration. Example: there must be a billion posts on fitting crown molding onto an unsquare surface, yet that post finds its way onto the woodworking sites every week. The same with "I have fisheyes in my lacquer and I don't know what I did wrong - HELP!"

Although I have several thousand posts to the woodworking and finiihing venues, I rarely post anymore. I hang around at one or two because I have made internet pals there. When I post, unless it is an interesting question, I usually just suggest DAGS - Do A Google Search.

I am wondering if this was changed to a "subscription only" site if that would cut down on the lazy man's questions. With no direct public access, I am pretty sure that would slow down some of those posts. I think one of the problems is that you can find this place with Google, but unless you understand how the advanced search works, you cannot search with Google.

And since you cannot search unless you have a paid subscription here, I think it may be leading to some of the more mundane and silly questions.

Just my 0.02... nothing more.

Robert
 
While I completely see the logic of a paid only site, I like the fact that this is a free clearing house for information. While I've paid for my membership upgrade, when I was first starting to satisfy my itch to learn to make knives, I would have likely shied away from a paid site, and thus would have missed one of the most complete resources of knife making out there: Bladeforums.

One of my personality traits is that I love to research things. If I'm looking to buy a new TV, I will pull up comparisons, search through reviews, and read anything I can on the model I'm looking to buy. I even go to the extent of downloading the users manuals and reading through it before I buy! I'm neurotic that way, I guess. It was the same for knifemaking. While I'm surely guilty of posting dumb questions, I did about 3 years of lurking on here and purchased and read every knife making book I could find locally. At least that gave me an understanding of what I was doing prior to jumping in. I also perused the stickies at depth.

I find the process is more enjoyable if I know what I'm doing going in. Then you see all the knowledge you've gleaned come together; bits of loose information begin falling into place. And in the end you have a more satisfying experience.

--nathan
 
I believe it would be a better PR move for this forum if you master knife makers would just ignore those silly beginner questions, instead of demonstrating such arrogance.
 
I know and understand the difficulties mentioned. I use baseball umpiring as an example. When the umpiring forums came out it was wonderful and everything was new and shiny.... 2 years later after answering, "how many strikes in an out" and other basic questions daily a lot of us experienced umpires retreated into invitation only groups. It was great, we could argue type A vs type B obstruction and other baseball minutae. Every once in awhile some of us would be head into the wastelands of umpiring forums and it was the same old story. A few self appointed experts holding sway over their followers putting out bad information on a lot of topics. We'd argue, get blasted and retreat back to our internet caves to warn the others.

What I'm saying in a nutshell it seems like a great idea if people of certain levels were separated off, but heck they only ask those questions for a short while, either ignore or answer the question. Do we really want only beginners sharing information with each other and answering each other questions? Everyone will be making knives out of whatever and quenching in panther piss. :p

Rayban, instead of casting stones at the people that answer 90% of the questions how about you spend some of YOUR time answering questions?
 
I would have never paid for this site the first time I came here. I don't pay for anything until I know it has what I need. After spending a ton of time reading books, reading links, and reading threads I started asking questions. Seeing how people responded is what made me want to pay. I spend a lot of time on 4x4 forums and most of the oldtimers are just sarcastic jerks. I know because I'm an old timer on them :)

The folks here seem to be a step or two above and I've gotten better responses and attitudes than I usually expect from an internet forum. But for folks that want a bit more privacy one of my forums has a free and then a paid for area. Unless you're a paid member you never even know the paid for area exists, it's a bit of a surprise after you buy the membership and see additional links on your homepage. But to be honest, most of what goes on in the paid for area just ends up being making fun of/complaining about threads in the free section.
 
indy said:
The folks here seem to be a step or two above and I've gotten better responses and attitudes than I usually expect from an internet forum.
Click to expand...

You got that right. I have met several of these guys, and I can tell you, for the most part, they are some of the nicest people you will find anywhere.

Now, can I make a file out of a knife?
 
I'm with Robert and indy. Calling these fellows arrogant is a minority opinion, to say the least.

Heatride just posted a thread on a similar subject. It's worth a look :thumbup:
 
rayban said:
I believe it would be a better PR move for this forum if you master knife makers would just ignore those silly beginner questions, instead of demonstrating such arrogance.
Click to expand...

Ok, I was going to stay out of this thread, but this just really sets me off.

ARROGANCE? Really? these masters of their craft are nice enough to share freely with us all the things that they have spent decades learning. We should be thanking them for bothering to help us out! Certainly the time that folks like Ed, Stacy, Kevin, Mete, etc, etc, etc have spent coddling newbies here could have been more well spent working in their own shops, making themselves better at their craft and paying their bills. THEY HELP US ANYWAY. This is not arrogance. Arrogance would be an occasional post crapping on somebody else's method, espousing their own, and moving on. These guys don't do that. The least we can do is try to do our part to read and research first before wasting these guy's time with something that was already answered 3 threads down the page.

To say that the Mastersmiths should just ignore the newbie posts is an insult to them. This is a useful place for them too and if the signal to noise ratio is drowning out useful content, it becomes less useful to them, and the rest of us.

Many times I think people don't realize the resource they have available here. They may think that "some guy named Ed" just answered their question by telling them they have to do some work to get where they want to go and they discount him because they didn't like what he said. Little do they know that it was Ed Caffrey and if they'd just listen to him it would save them hours of time. Newbies are newbies and that's fine, but if they expect to ever make something worth using they will have to realize that knifemaking takes WORK. Not just work in making knives, but work in research, work in understanding history, work in interpersonal relations, etc.

I've asked stupid questions for sure, but it was never without looking for myself first. I've also answered my share of questions, in some cases doing the research for the original poster when I didn't know the answer off-hand and more often than not if folks don't hear the answer they want they ignore the answers they get.

Some suggestions to the newbies:

  • Read the newbies thread
  • Try google! If you type "site:www.bladeforums.com stuff to search for" it will search JUST bladeforums!
  • Stop and think before you post
  • Stop and look before you post
  • Don't ask a question if you're just hunting for validation of your own opinion.

-d
 
You said it, deker. Some of these guys are among the best in the world! I was telling my lady just yesterday that it always surprises me how eager they are to teach beginners like me - their up-and-coming competition. (at least I hope to "compete" one day)
 
Don't folks buy "How To" books any more?
I know Shop Talk is a grand place for learning stuff but you should grab up as many books as you can!!
 
amen......read my signature line, i keep this in mind daily still when working on my knives

also i love reading all the books in my little library , even if it's thing i already know how to do, i just love to read anything about building knives, and metal work - how-to's are great.

sometimes this net thing's has it's down fall, i've only had mine a little over a year , before that everything was hands on with others or through books, the web makes people so lazy!!

i also would consider my self a newbie, though i hate that word, but the newbies are not the only ones guilty of these things, ocassionally there are a couple fairly popular members on here that post some dumb stuff......im sure i have a time or two, but really there's some ludicrious ideas from certain people, always the same ones.
 
Last edited:
I have probably spent a couple of hundred hours or more reading the posts on this site (hey... I don't watch much TV) with a mug of coffee.

There are so many folks on this site it is almost a small city. That means there are just as many personalities, quirks, and the same things that define us all as human beings. Some of the folks here seem to be really just trolling, and some are downright scary.

With all the nasty, quick fired temperaments around here (go ahead, say you don't like the plastic bag your Strider came in, or the finish on your Busse, or the way your Kershaw closes.... I DARE YOU!) the knife makers themselves are dead even with the Wilderness guys for patience, knowledge and sharing.

The Wilerness guys like to share what they are doing and compare gear.

The knife MAKERS seem to like to share their knowledge and craft.

The problem with calling he knife makers arrogant is the ignorance displayed by the poster himself. I have been a paid, professional (meaning my livelihood, NOT hobby) wood worker and finisher for over three decades now.

I have little patience anymore for someone that doesn't put just a little effort into learning something before asking a question. Especially if it is something that has taken me years to master. It seems stupid and crass for someone to ask me idiot questions, an worse when they don't pay attention or argue with the answer.

Personally, from my observation, the knife makers here are a pretty damn generous lot. They are generous not only with their time, but with their knowledge, as well as taking the time to commit it to writing.

Like I said in a previous post, I don't really post too much anymore as the questions are now pretty much all the same. But I still like to teach and still like to share my crafts.

One of the most rewarding teaching experiences I had was to give a demo at our local woodturning club. After giving a successful demo (you know, the one where you didn't screw up!) on a difficult to use tool, all 40+ members gave me a standing ovation! These are all folks that are approaching the 70 years mark with some being pretty crusty, so that was a real compliment.

The best part was how grateful they were that I took the time and made the effort. Many made it a point to come talk to me while i was packing up my tools and to tell me how great it was of me to share and to teach them how to handle the tools. I was glad to share, but really flattered by the compliments. I was well past that particular tool and on to new challenges.

To me, that's the spirit I see here. Good guys, approachable guys, folks that are interested in furthering the craft and the enjoyment of it.

Arrogant? Hardly.

Robert
 
10-4 Stacy, I can not tell you how many hours I spent reading books, articles on the internet and forum posts to learn knifemaking and to understand the skills needed to make a knife BEFORE I tried to make a knife. I still use the internet and the forums almost daily and I am still learning, in fact I will always be learing this trade, there is so much to know and understand. The information available for the new maker is outstanding and allows a person who wants to learn the trade an opportunity that did not exist in the past. The newbies need to apply themselves and study the information available so they are asking intelegent questions that are relevant. The newbies should think of building an educated base so that they can converse with the experienced makers on higher level.
 
rayban said:
I believe it would be a better PR move for this forum if you master knife makers would just ignore those silly beginner questions, instead of demonstrating such arrogance.
Click to expand...

How can somebody be here for almost 2 years and get a feeling of arrogance from these fine folks is beyond me. :confused:

Pad
 
Good to see the consensus is pretty much unanimous.
The search engine for this site is:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Make it a Quick Tab, and use it when you need to search. The search on the forum page is a little hard to use.

In regards to libraries, they often have books you can't buy anymore....and ones you can't afford. Our local library has Bo Bergman's book on knifemaking, which is somewhere around $100, if you can find one. They have many blacksmithing and knife related books,too. All are free for the cost of filling out a library card and going to the library to look. I heard of one library that has "The Antique Bowie Knife" book in the reference section ($1000-1500, and nearly impossible to find)

Arrogant, yes, from time to time there are arrogant folks here. Some are famous and some unknown. They should not be arrogant, and they are usually called down for their comments when they are.
I will give one example, because he can take the criticism, and because I respect him for his ability, not his personality - Tai Goo. Tai is a unique individual. He is part of what makes this place multi-faceted and multi-cultural. At times many here may want to strangle Tai, but we all read his posts....why???? because he has his view point to make, and we all respect him for that ( we may not all agree with his point of view). His work is artful and reflects his life. I am glad he is here.
Now, when Tai gets arrogant, the community will usually step in and politely (well, occasionally not so politely) ask him to knock it off.....which he usually does. That shows the true spirit of cooperation that abounds here. When he has a particular topic that is burning him up, he usually posts his own thread in response.
( Tai, my apologies for singling you out, but I believe you understand the intent of my comments not to be an insult.)
I hope I am not considered arrogant by any newbies ( or anyone else) because I suggest an improvement on their work, point out an error, or correct misinformation in a post of theirs. Occasionally I will be very blunt to a new maker who needs a reality check, but it is not out of superiority, but out of a desire to help them get off on the right foot.

Another thing this forum offers is a reference library beyond what most universities have. Kevin has books that mete doesn't. I have dozens of books and videos ( and I still purchase new ones on knifemaking and related topics, even though I already do the subject....just to learn how someone else does it). Vern might have a welders manual that has some pertinent info, etc.
When someone posts a technical question, those books are an arms reach away for someone, somewhere.

Finally, If this forum was split up, it would destroy the usefulness of it. I virtually never go on the sub-forums . I know that the best sheath makers around are there, but it is not conducive to good time use. Shop Talk has such a broad spectrum of knowledge and topics, that it is nearly the only forum a newbie needs. If a question could be better answered in a sub forum, then the poster is usually directed there by someone.
I ,for one, would be saddened by the creation of newbies, oldies, metallurgy, etc. sub-forums. If you look at some of the other once great forums, you will see that no new posts have been made for months (even years) on many of their sub-forums.....because the topics were divided up to finely.

Stacy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top