Someone PLEASE Explain Finger Choils on Folders!!

SaintZe said:
A choil and a thumb ramp allow for an exceptional level of control over a blade by positioning one's fingers as close to the cutting edge as possible. The combination of a thumb almost directly over the cutting edge and a foreginger securing the whole package makes for an impressive level of control- I'm a huge fan of the Mantra 2 but its greatest flaw is that it's not as easy to choke up on for precise cuts. Additionally, on smaller designs, ie the Dragonfly 2, a choil allows for a four-finger grip on a very small knife. I personally find little validity in complains about blade:handle ratios as the removal of a choil would necessitate a top-down redesign of the knife.
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I understand what you are saying, but I could do everything you just described on an Emerson A-100, even an inch from the tip if I choose, and that knife has neither ramp, nor choil.

Those tasks don't require those features. Just some technique and common sense.

Please don't take this as simply argumentative. Just countering point for point. Discussing.

I appreciate your input.
 
for more control and grip near its blade,agree thats its more useful on larger folders like (PM2 or stretch) and if one didn't like choils on knifes!you really shouldn't be looking at spyderco's!lots of other folders out there.
 
On some models the choil can also aid in 1 hand closing sans cutting yourself. The choil can prevent an accidental cut when closing the blade one handed. With back locks you can disengage the lock with your thumb, drop the choil portion of the blade on your index finger, remove said finger and let gravity do the rest to close the blade. So yeah choils have a purpose for those of us who need to close certain models with 1 hand due to the activity at hand.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzu90gN8PGk
 
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Jamesh Bond said:
I understand what you are saying, but I could do everything you just described on an Emerson A-100, even an inch from the tip if I choose, and that knife has neither ramp, nor choil.
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You could do something similar, but not the same. You can choke up on any knife with a somewhat flat spine- but at that point your thumb will protrude over the cutting edge portion of the blade. This isn't inherently negative (and in some cases it can be preferable) but it can be a pain if you're cutting a large or thick object.

The second thing is, the solidity of your grip on a knife such as the A100 (or my aforementioned Mantra 2) is entirely determined by how hard you're gripping the knife, (and by extension the effectiveness of the blade and/or scales). A choil and a thumb ramp will actually prevent the knife from slipping deeper into your hands, rather than relying on grip strength alone. Try choking up on the A100 and pushing the tip into a piece of wood- not hard, just enough to see where your grip starts to slip a little. For me, it's usually the thumb, followed by the forefinger.

I've also come to notice through playing around with my choiled/choil-less knives that a choil and thumb ramp places control of the blade directly into your thumb, and the muscles behind your thumb, rather than the palm of your hand.
 
I can go either way on choils, sometimes they work for the knife and sometimes they don't. I will say though my absolute favorite knife with a choil is the Spyderco Dragonfly. IMO the choil is what makes it fit perfect in hand.
 
Choils can be a manner of control and comfort. It's good for safety reasons as mentioned before in one hand closing operations and protects fingers in accidental closings or lock failures.
 
I really prefer the choil for a lot of the reasons already mentioned, but mostly I find it offers a more comfortable grip for me. The Delica and the Caly 3 are pretty much the same size, for example, but the default Delica scales aren't comfortable. On the Caly 3, my fingers just fall into place and it feels like it fits perfectly in my hand. Ditto the Nishijin R vs the Endura. It's not even that I need to choke up on the blade or I need the extra control. The grip with choil just feels right, which I know is vague and subjective and not at all a helpful answer. :p

Added bonus for me is that most of the Spydies with choils don't have that gap between the back of the blade and the edge of the scales when closed, like the Delica and Endura have. I realize that's strictly aesthetic and doesn't affect function at all, but it still bothers me. :o
 
Bugs57 said:
On some models the choil can also aid in 1 hand closing sans cutting yourself. The choil can prevent an accidental cut when closing the blade one handed. With back locks you can disengage the lock with your thumb, drop the choil portion of the blade on your index finger, remove said finger and let gravity do the rest to close the blade. So yeah choils have a purpose for those of us who need to close certain models with 1 hand due to the activity at hand.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzu90gN8PGk
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This is exactly why I like choils. It acts as a guard. Plus I like choking up on all my knives when I do intricate cutting.
 
SaintZe said:
You could do something similar, but not the same. You can choke up on any knife with a somewhat flat spine- but at that point your thumb will protrude over the cutting edge portion of the blade. This isn't inherently negative (and in some cases it can be preferable) but it can be a pain if you're cutting a large or thick object.

The second thing is, the solidity of your grip on a knife such as the A100 (or my aforementioned Mantra 2) is entirely determined by how hard you're gripping the knife, (and by extension the effectiveness of the blade and/or scales). A choil and a thumb ramp will actually prevent the knife from slipping deeper into your hands, rather than relying on grip strength alone. Try choking up on the A100 and pushing the tip into a piece of wood- not hard, just enough to see where your grip starts to slip a little. For me, it's usually the thumb, followed by the forefinger.

I've also come to notice through playing around with my choiled/choil-less knives that a choil and thumb ramp places control of the blade directly into your thumb, and the muscles behind your thumb, rather than the palm of your hand.
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True.
Subtleties.

I'm starting to see it truly is as simple as personal preference, as I've so far learned nothing new.

Which is good because it means I haven't missed some glaring obvious use or reason previously unknown.

Bad, however, because it means I still won't buy any of the 6 or so knives out there I otherwise REALLLLLLLY want, since there's nothing new to convince me to deal with a feature I've put a lot of experience and thought into deciding doesn't work for me. It's a shame.

Sal, if you happen to see this, know that I'm a guy who loves simple G10 linerlocks with full edge and a nice handle. Yes, there are a few knives out there that fit that category, but I also love Spyderco. You guys do things really well, and it's a shame to miss out on your excellent offerings because only one knife in your line fits my simple criteria. Surely, there must be enough like minded people out there to warrant some higher end knives similar to the Tenacious (which I will say again, is awesome, including steel performance).

I wish there was true scaled down mini military in 154-cm or vg-10. I honestly don't care much for hard super steels like the CPM and other exotic stuff, but the simpler mid premium stuff sharpens like 8Cr but holds a razor edge longer, which to me, is the perfect balance.

I would buy a dozen of these if they were made.
 
I think it's pretty clear that people think a full finger choil on the blade is a good idea for some reason, I mean check out how popular Busse's "gorilla choil" is. And they put that thing on sub-4" blades even.

I guess these people are willing to make a tradeoff for more handle and less blade. I don't get it, you don't get it, but the market says people get it. They aren't going away but I definitely see a lot more full-bladed options, so everyone should be able to get what they want irrespective of what others like.
 
Humint said:
This is exactly why I like choils. It acts as a guard. Plus I like choking up on all my knives when I do intricate cutting.
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This is a valid reason, safety when closing. If you don't like them don't buy them.



Russ
 
I love finger choils, pretty much every Spyderco I carry has one. Not everyone is going to like finger choils, just as not everyone would want a knife like Delica with a useless exposed tang, or one like the Persistence with an "all edge" blade and very little in the way of a guard to keep your hand from moving forward onto that edge. That's probably why Spyderco makes all three kinds, so each of us can have what we like and sneer at the idiots who like something else. :p ;) :D
 
A large number of Spyderco's designs are engineered with an unsharpened area at the ricasso...some of these use a choil (Stretch) and some do not (delica/endura). I believe the idea is to protect the fingers in the case of a lock failure and to allow one handed closing (of back locks for example) by allowing one to disengage the lock and safely drop the blade onto the forefinger. I like knives with choils and without and cannot say that I have a preference. Three of my favorite folders are the Paramilitary, the Delica and the Stretch. Two of those have finger choils and one does not and I love them all. I have to admit though, sometimes I look at a knife like the delica or endura and think "man, with all that unsharpened metal in front of the handle, they might as well have cut a finger choil into it. So I guess the answer I am offering is that the choil allows one to get the hand as close to the cutting edge as possible while still offering the safety of an unsharpened piece of metal that will close on the finger in the event of a lock failure.
 
I have a love hate relationship with the finger choils. I love them to get a full 4 finger grip on knives like the Chaparral and the Dragonfly. I dislike them on larger knives. I also am not a fan of the exposed area of unsharpened blade like on a Delica. Not sure if that is called the ricasso or kick or what.
 
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The Deacon said:
I love finger choils, pretty much every Spyderco I carry has one. Not everyone is going to like finger choils, just as not everyone would want a knife like Delica with a useless exposed tang, or one like the Persistence with an "all edge" blade and very little in the way of a guard to keep your hand from moving forward onto that edge. That's probably why Spyderco makes all three kinds, so each of us can have what we like and sneer at the idiots who like something else. :p ;) :D
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Yes, exactly.
The choil gives me a four finger grip on my Chapparal
Feels safer when closing one handed.
Has no exposed tang when closed, and doesn't catch material in a gap between the handle and the blade.

I had a Native and a Delica, and I got rid of the Delica, because switching between them day to day, I was afraid I'd forget and put my index finger on the blade. So I only carry choiled Spydercos.
 
I don't own any folding knives with finger choils on the blade. I did have a Native 5 at one time but I sold it for other reasons. My only Spyderco currently is the Delica, which does not have a finger choil.

To me they appear to serve a purpose as an extra safety in the event the blade lock were to fail. If your finger is in that section, then when the blade closed, it would clamp down around your finger with the non-sharpened choil part, which might be uncomfortable but less so than having the sharp blade cut into you.

Other than that, it just seems to be an extension of the grip surface onto the blade surface. Some people like it, some don't.
 
Jamesh Bond said:
Why in the name of God would a guy need to choke up on a FOLDING KNIFE??
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Jamesh Bond said:
This is one badass knife. And you know what's cool? The blade is sharpened ALL THE WAY to the handle! Guess what? I can choke up on my tenacious perfectly.
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Why don't you tell us why you choke up on your folding knife or did you not mean to completely contradict yourself? Seriously, not everyone has to like everything. It's just personal preference.
 
On a small/short little folder like a Dragonfly 2 or Chaparral the choil will let you get a full grip on the knife. If you want to try to appreciate a choil you should handle one of Spyderco's small offerings. Lotta knife in a small package. VERY VERY ergonomic.

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
 
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