Someone PLEASE Explain Finger Choils on Folders!!

[Jamesh Bond]

Jamesh Bond, is it the choil specifically that you don't like, or the fact that the edge doesn't go all the way to the handle? I'm curious because I just scrolled through the Spyderco catalog and many of the choil-less models still have don't have an edge that goes all the way to the handle. Would the Delica or Endura be as problematic as, say, the Caly 3.5? No judgment here. Just askin'.

Both.

Dedicated choils are redundant for me, and I get more control with the edge as close as possible to my grip, so gimme lotsa edge!

As Danke said, the others without choils (delica, endura) have resin handles, which I don't care for either. But you're correct. I also dislike them because the edge isn't sharpened all the way to the handle. For me this translates to less perceived control in certain types of cutting.

It's a good feature for safety when closing, but the technique I use with lockbacks negates that anyway. And like choils, they sacrifice cutting edge in order to exist.

Thanks!

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Options. Who doesn't like options on how to do something more efficiently? I use a choil on a folding knife the same way you use it on a fixed blade. What is not to understand?

Heard.
But it doesn't make things more efficient for users who don't need them. It takes away efficiency.

And it takes away purchase options.

 

[SaintZe]

But it doesn't make things more efficient for users who don't need them. It takes away efficiency.

Your belief is only applicable to people who don't use choils. There's no objective loss of "efficiency" (however that may be defined), because the choice between choil vs. no choil is a matter of preference, which is (in this discussion) subjective.

And it takes away purchase options.

As does any other subjective preference. Some people refuse to buy a knife if it doesn'thave a choil. Others eschew anything with(out) a pocket clip. Some people refuse to buy stainless, other stick to high carbon steels.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Your belief is only applicable to people who don't use choils. There's no objective loss of "efficiency" (however that may be defined), because the choice between choil vs. no choil is a matter of preference, which is (in this discussion) subjective.




As does any other subjective preference. Some people refuse to buy a knife if it doesn'thave a choil. Others eschew anything with(out) a pocket clip. Some people refuse to buy stainless, other stick to high carbon steels.

That efficiency you quoted was defined by me, the user of my knives, and OP of a thread about why there's not as many options for me and those like myself.

And that second part doesn't really apply in this thread. Because in THIS discussion (all of which are subjective, btw), the subject is the lack of choil-less options for me, and those like myself.

Thx.

 

[The Deacon]

Both.

Dedicated choils are redundant for me, and I get more control with the edge as close as possible to my grip, so gimme lotsa edge!

As Danke said, the others without choils (delica, endura) have resin handles, which I don't care for either. But you're correct. I also dislike them because the edge isn't sharpened all the way to the handle. For me this translates to less perceived control in certain types of cutting.

It's a good feature for safety when closing, but the technique I use with lockbacks negates that anyway. And like choils, they sacrifice cutting edge in order to exist.

Thanks!

So, despite the fact that many of Spydercos top sellers have one or more of the features you dislike, you'd like them to re-design their entire lineup to please you. Good luck with that.

 

[Knifeoholic]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, forgot to put it in my previous post. Another thing I have found choils useful for is choking up for really hard cuts. I find that when doing this, it seems to stop a lot of the pressure from being on the pivot and you can apply more force to the blade. It also stops my wrist from turning as much as well. I'm not allowed to carry a fixed blade to work. Hope this makes sense! Just my opinion!

 

[jpadia]

I have been watching this thread because I completely agree with the op. Especially in regards to the Native. The handle on the Native feels "off" to me without using the choil. Feels small and my hand feels too far from the blade. Using the choil gives it more handle than necessary and I don't find the choil itself comfortable in hand. Even though choils are a turn off for me, I do own 3 knives with them (Hinderer, CS tuff light and mini tuff lite). I've found that I really just have to try a knife in hand. If the choil works with the design, I'm fine with them. I thought the choil on the pm2 was fine as well. I personally have a hard time finding the utility of thumb ramps and choils over just having a well designed handle with a blade sharpened all the way back. The Slysz Bowie is a very attractive design to me.

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[jazzz]

I'll just say this - the Delica doesn't have a choil, but kind of does. It is perfect, and how a blade should be. That is obviously just my opinion, and that's why Sal and Eric make all kinds of knives. I think the Mantra's blade goes too far back, and should have some kicker like the Delica.

 

[inkynate]

I have been watching this thread because I completely agree with the op. Especially in regards to the Native. The handle on the Native feels "off" to me without using the choil. Feels small and my hand feels too far from the blade. Using the choil gives it more handle than necessary and I don't find the choil itself comfortable in hand...

OTOH, I still have no clue what the OP and other detractors are talking about...

Hand not close enough to the cutting edge? Too much handle when using the choil?? Not comfortable???

BUT, to each his own... Hands come in different shapes and sizes and people have different preferences, that's why there are literally thousands of knife designs out there to choose from :thumbup:

 

[jpadia]

OTOH, I still have no clue what the OP and other detractors are talking about...

Hand not close enough to the cutting edge? Too much handle when using the choil?? Not comfortable???

BUT, to each his own... Hands come in different shapes and sizes and people have different preferences, that's why there are literally thousands of knife designs out there to choose from [emoji106]

How is it when not using the choil, or is that your grip? That is how I had to use the Native. I just felt the choil could go away and the handle and blade could both be increased to fill the space. My opinion and I agree with you that we all like options. I chose a lil' lionspy instead😃.

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[benzy2]

How is it when not using the choil, or is that your grip? That is how I had to use the Native. I just felt the choil could go away and the handle and blade could both be increased to fill the space. My opinion and I agree with you that we all like options. I chose a lil' lionspy instead😃.

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Isn't that the issue though, if you don't want a longer handle then the choil works well. You sacrifice some cutting surface to keep closed size small. If we are fine with adding length on both blade and handle then it's no big deal but take the Chaparral for example. If you took the choil out it would become a 3 to maybe 3.5 finger knife. Add the choil and it becomes a 4 finger knife. In that knife, an extra .3"-.4" of cutting surface isn't really missed especially at the addition of a full grip.

 

[jpadia]

I think this is where the issue of hand size comes in. The handle on the Native without the choil is almost a comfortable 4 finger hold for me. Extending the handle into the choil would be perfect... for me. Now I'm gonna say the following focusing strictly on design without consideration to the engineering of such a design. Look at the Native closed. The handle will not be bigger because the front portion of the handle just needs to be extended down into the choil area. We are talking about a whole different knife at this point because the handle as a whole would need to change and maybe the internals too. I don't know, maybe a tenacious/persistence/ambitious with other steel options is a solution.

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[inkynate]

How is it when not using the choil, or is that your grip? That is how I had to use the Native.

I referenced it in an earlier post, but yes, that is my regular grip. For the Native or anything smaller (i.e., Chaparral, Urban) I generally view the 50/50 choil as the "regular" grip, with an option to choke back for more reach. On larger models like the Manix or PM2, I use the rearward grip more often and may choke up for more fine control or whatever, depending on the task...

 

[Jamesh Bond]

So, despite the fact that many of Spydercos top sellers have one or more of the features you dislike, you'd like them to re-design their entire lineup to please you. Good luck with that.

Way to put words in someone's mouth. That's not even remotely in the same universe as what I've been saying.

I'll discuss anything you want to discuss if it has a purpose. But if you're looking to bait an argument based on snyde, paraphrased, sarcastic comments, you've picked the wrong member.

Based on your activity elsewhere, Deacon, you have a lot of excellent knowledge to share. I'd rather not let that go to waste because of petty differences in perception. There's a much larger, and simpler picture that brought us here called "knife enthusiasm." I for one don't want to shortchange my experience because i got caught up in some dumb moment, lost my cool, and burnt my bridges.

My participation in any given endeavor lasts only as long as its relevance and usefulness.

I look forward to learning from you, and everyone here, in the future.

Thx.