Sorry, but here's my spine wacks...

[ricklee4570]

I am glad the OP posted this. I don't look at just one review and make up my mind. It is a compilation of opinions and reviews utilized together as well as my own experiences that help form opinions on different brands. Whether he sends it back for warranty work is unimportant to me. I look at it like this, if Ford Motor Company has tons of problems with a certain car, and they fix it under warranty but the Chevrolet model of comparative price is good to go from the factory, I will choose the one where I don't have the hassle of dealing with the service department!

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Was it already established that the knife in question wasn't a fake?

I'm in no way a fan boy since I don't even own any of their knives. Just curious.

 

[PURPLEDC]

A knife lock is designed as a back up safety measure to a malfunctioning brain or accident. The reason spinewhacks are completely ridiculous is because they put the knife into a set of circumstances that IS NOT indicative of normal operating condtions. No frame lock I have ever seen on a knife is designed to keep the knife open without a users hand properly placed on the handle fortifying the lock and then subsequently exposed to shock. A spinewhack test is very similar to dropping a knife on concrete. Part of the whole purpose of a frame lock is for the users grip to fortify its effectiveness. Without your fingers wrapped around the knife keeping the lockbar stable and then exposing it to shock then you are asking the knife to do something its not intended to do.

Another thing I hate about these so called tests are the lack of control in the experiment. Is the knife new? used? Has it been taken apart? Who reassembled it? Does this person have any experience setting up or tuning a knife? Has the person oiled the pivot? Has any of the lubrication migrated to the lockface reducing its ability to resist shock? Has the lockbar been tweaked by the current user or past users? And probably the most important is the person who is going to answer these question an honest person with no interest in verifying what they think they know or is the test truly fair? All these things can have an effect on the outcome of such an exercise.

The main issue I have with spinewhacks is the fact the conditions of the experiment have nothing to do with real world use. Yes your knife can get exposed to shock but if using the knife as intended you will be gripping that knife around the lock. A much more fair and telling test is to simply apply pressure to the spine without the sharp impact. Because exposing the knife to shock is an exercise in science and energy. And energy takes a path of least resistance. If you take a frame lock knife and smack the blade against the ground to prove that the lock is ineffective you have to understand you are taking that shock and energy and forcing it through the knife. That energy wants to go somewhere and the moving parts (lockbar & blade) are going to be the first things to move. And with no proper grip on the knife I would say that lock is going exactly what is to be expected. And there are a considerable amount of variables that would have that knife perform differently than even locks of the same type. Comparing them to even other framelocks is pointless. The ONLY knife it should be compared with are other 0300 knives and I still dont feel the smacking them against the ground is the proper way to do so.

Not only that but seeing a lock is a backup safety device and not something to be leaned on as creating a fixed blade out of a folding knife you have to understand that with every spinewhack you can be causing damage to the lockface. You could in fact be contributing to the ineffectiveness of the lock with each "harmless" smack. And if you ARE going to do it, keep your thumb or hand on the lockbar as you would if using it. Now if the argment is " I baton with my knife so the experiment is indicative of the shock and lack of grip you are talking about" Then you are admitting to even MORE exposure to conditions never intended and it is now your choice to abuse something that is creating a problem rather than a defect in manufacturing. So hate yourself not the company.

The bottom line for me is any time someone takes any object. And I mean any object and tries to prove that objects worth or lack thereof by exposing it to "tests" that are not indicitive of the conditions the object was intended you are not proving the ineffectiveness of that object but of the user. All tools have an intended purpose. And you dont prove the effectiveness of a drill press by seeing how well it works as a hammer. Knives dont fail spinewhacks, knife owners do.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Let's be fair, I watched the video, it was a spine "tap" not a "whack." The knife is defective. Just send it in, get a new one.

Yes its disappointing to have to send in a blade. Happens.

Yes, we can see you have a defect.

Remember,

a high cost folder does not equal a fixed blade.

But its embarrassing to pay that much and have it laughably fail so hard at such a light tap.

Its good to vent. Haha I'd be pissed too.

Now go fix it and be happy.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I am glad the OP posted this. I don't look at just one review and make up my mind. It is a compilation of opinions and reviews utilized together as well as my own experiences that help form opinions on different brands. Whether he sends it back for warranty work is unimportant to me. I look at it like this, if Ford Motor Company has tons of problems with a certain car, and they fix it under warranty but the Chevrolet model of comparative price is good to go from the factory, I will choose the one where I don't have the hassle of dealing with the service department!

The problem with that thinking from my perspective is for every youtube video you see of problematic zt knives is that there are countless other knives out in the wild that dont have that problem. And just because a youtube video doesnt exist for a certain knife doesnt mean you wont find one with issues. Consumer reports are useful but cant really be held to any standard. And i have witnessed videos where the failures were intentionally manipulated as to prove a non existing point. In one case i can only assume the person wanted the knife to fail because he was sick of fanboy praise yet couldnt find a legit problem and had to create one. I am not saying everyone lies. But make no mistake not everyone you encounter online is. And the reasons to do so arent always clear.

 

[craytab]

Another thing I hate about these so called tests are the lack of control in the experiment. Is the knife new? used? Has it been taken apart? Who reassembled it? Does this person have any experience setting up or tuning a knife? Has the person oiled the pivot? Has any of the lubrication migrated to the lockface reducing its ability to resist shock? Has the lockbar been tweaked by the current user or past users? And probably the most important is the person who is going to answer these question an honest person with no interest in verifying what they think they know or is the test truly fair? All these things can have an effect on the outcome of such an exercise.

What? Why would you need to know all that? Don't you know youtube vids are hard empirical evidence?

 

[PURPLEDC]

What? Why would you need to know all that? Don't you know youtube vids are hard empirical evidence?

I think you mean cold steel proof videos, lol.

 

[stabman]

Some lemons do get through from time to time.
My Emerson Karambit was failing from light spine pressure.
I managed to fix that myself, but for a little bit there I had an expensive "tactical slip-joint."

At least KAI has a good warranty, so the lemons can be addressed.

I've had 4 ZT's with zero issues, but then again, 4 out of 5 Emerson's of mine had zero issues.

 

[Akcir]

I only own 5 ZT knives, some frame, and some liner locks. I like them to perform to MY expectations, not all the other experts expectations.
The OP's 0300 would not be acceptable to me. If I couldn't fix it or tune it properly, it would go back to KAI so they could try again.
I don't beat the piss out of a lock to see if it will fail, but a knife like the 0300 should do better than that. KAI has great CS, most people would have gotten it taken care of by now.

 

[knifedude802]

I bought it new, yes its real, its unused, has no bladeplay and it's "tuned" just fine. That's a cute word to use to make it sound more complicated then it really is. I suspect it's just the geometry on this particular one. Like someone else said...these are not spine wacks. They're hardly taps and the knife is defective, if you disagree, so be it. Let the video speak for itself. It'd be cool if no one uses the word troll on this thread anymore. Go somewhere else if you're not talking about the knife.

 

[brancron]

Anyone here who can't accept that this knife is without question, inarguably, irrefutably a lemon, is himself a lemon.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I bought it new, yes its real, its unused, has no bladeplay and it's "tuned" just fine. That's a cute word to use to make it sound more complicated then it really is. I suspect it's just the geometry on this particular one. Like someone else said...these are not spine wacks. They're hardly taps and the knife is defective, if you disagree, so be it. Let the video speak for itself. It'd be cool if no one uses the word troll on this thread anymore. Go somewhere else if you're not talking about the knife.

What do you want out of this thread?

A support group for the grieving process?

reseach why it fails study "early lock up" "lock geometry","carbidizing"
Fix it yourself, break it in.

Or

send it in for warranty claim

Or

review the whole knife. How's the rest of the blade?

But No more whining.

Be more pragmatic.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I bought it new, yes its real, its unused, has no bladeplay and it's "tuned" just fine. That's a cute word to use to make it sound more complicated then it really is. I suspect it's just the geometry on this particular one. Like someone else said...these are not spine wacks. They're hardly taps and the knife is defective, if you disagree, so be it. Let the video speak for itself. It'd be cool if no one uses the word troll on this thread anymore. Go somewhere else if you're not talking about the knife.

Really? You must not work on knives much if ever. I cant tell you how many knives I have taken apart that dont work particularly well after reassembly and you need to adjust it to get it to work properly. You would be amazed at how much goes into the effectiveness of a lock, and the rest of its operation simply by how it was put together. Even with the same knife, you cant just put the pieces and screws together and always expect the same results every time you tear it down and put it back together. You seem to think the word tuning is a cute term for making it sound more complicated than it is. But if it were as simple as you believe it to be then wouldnt you have fixed your knife by now thus eliminating the need for this thread? Another thing to remember is that just because you create a thread it doesnt make you supreme ruler of it. To that effect public threads are open to public opinion. You may have the desire to only get the responses you wish but its far from how it works. Next time if you think there is a problem you can simply send it to the company to have them work on it and not make silly threads and silly videos of what you all ready know. And then you wont get the criticism nor the replies you dont wish and we dont have to have yet another "why my spinewhack" is valid thread. If you want to control opinions and comments maybe a youtube channel or a vlog is the best place to exercise that desire.

I'll get it fixed when I have the time. It's the fact that it needs fixing in the first place, as do too many ZT's being shipped out. A disproportionate amount compared to most any other knife maker.

That said, I like ZT, I like KAI, I buy their knives still. I like the designs, and the performance you CAN get from some of their models. I like the design of the 0300/0200. I don't like that they seem to have weak lockups relatively commonly.

Anyone who has time to post multiple threads on the same knife and make videos of it as well as taking time to keep up replies has the time to stop at USPS and drop a box off. Your excuse sounds like exactly that, an excuse. Your BS above in bold is exactly that, BS. I dont care how many youtube videos you have watched or threads you have searched for. Its pure conjecture on your part. I wont ask you for proof because I know it does not exist therefore you cant have any. And please stop using plurals for your isolated incident. It doesnt qualify as a "they" and if you are speaking about others who have expressed a problem add up all of them and you wont come close to the number of satisfied customers and perfectly working knives being used every single day. The fact that you would rather spend more time and energy whining about an item you feel is defective instead of sending it in and getting it fixed shows your true intentions and nature. You seem to have taken personal offense that you may have got a defective knife. I think ZT is the one who should take offense. Because you arent giving them the opportunity to make it right yet you still feel the entitlement to complain.

Anyone here who can't accept that this knife is without question, inarguably, irrefutably a lemon, is himself a lemon.

Yes, because when I think of irrefutable claims and opinions I can trust the first thing I think of is the testimony of a single member with less than 20 posts, less than a year on the forum and 2/3 of their started threads and posts are about a "defective" knife they refuse to have fixed because they "dont have time". You know what it takes to replicate the video? 10 minutes, a camera and a torx driver. Give me any knife and I will make a fail video. Im not saying that IS for sure what happened but Im saying you are putting a lot of stock and faith in what you think you see in a video from someone who hasnt exactly proved themselves here. And its possible that a slight tweak of that lockbar and/or a simple adjustment could stop the issue he is having from happening. Either way even if the knife is defective what is the statute of limitations on complaining about something you have the ability to correct yet choose not too?

 

[knifedude802]

What do you want out of this thread?

Off topic:
Like I said, I was just putting it out there. Just one more opinion on the ZT 0300.I'm not new to knives or lock face geometry. My goal was/is not to start arguments, if I even can be said to have a goal. Let's not make assumptions.
Sorry for those who are offended by the idea of spine wack and spine wack posts, I don't know what to tell you other than overt your eyes? I like reading about why people think spine wacks are or are not valid. The time and commitment I've spent on this website is not a representation of my enthusiasm or knowledge of the working of knives so like I said, lets keep the discussion limited to the knife/the company. If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine. If you don't believe the video is legitimate or if you believe I rigged the knife for failure, that's fine. Like I said, it's just one more guys opinion. I am and always have been a fan of KAI, I'm not trying to ruin a company, I'm just putting it out there.

Background on me is that I've been into knives seriously for about 15 years. I have an ASE in Mechanical Engineering Technology, and a BE in Mechanical Engineering. I started in manufacturing and fabrication and moved into mechanical design. I like mechanical things -- of course I love knives. My opinion is just that, my opinion.

I say arguing on here isn't a bad thing, but we should be arguing about knife (and company)-related topics, not about each others ability to form an opinion (i.e. if someone has "proved" themselves). If you just generally don't like my post, think I'm whining, or being unfair to ZT -- sorry, don't know what to tell you. Just ignore it.

Back on topic:
Disassembling most knives unfortunately voids the warranty from a lot of manufacturers. Of course I do it. Just finished putting back together my Contego (KnifeWorks exclusive in M390) after polishing the washers and replacing the backspacer with Ti standoffs. On my ZT 0300, I will say I have not taken it entirely apart, but I don't think it will be that much of a quick fix. It doesn't have early lock up either. I would really like to get into carbidizing, I looked into it a bit maybe a year ago but never followed through with a home-made set up. If anyone knows any good (cheap preferably) set ups, share with the class.

As for reviewing the rest of the knife -- I mean it's a ZT, come on. It's awesome. Blade is perfect, grinds are all even, action is smooth. I think that the blade is a little heavy for their Speedsafe system, but it doesn't much bother me. The model I showed in the video is serrated, which I wish I hadn't gotten. The first 0300 I owned was plain blade, and I thought it'd be cool to have the serrated one. Turns out I don't much care for ZT's serrations. It sits in my hand a lot like a Strider SNG, with that squarish handle, which makes sense since he had input on the design (not sure if/why he pulled out of the project, but he's not credited for the design usually). 3D texture, handles, everything else I'd look for is spot on. I love ZT's designs. I love the design of the 0300.

Another interesting thing is that in my mind, I got a lemon. But I never would have known (until an accident happened) if I hadn't spine "tapped" it.

A final thought for this post:
If you were ever considering buying a ZT, especially a ZT0300 because you like the design, and this post turned you off from it, IGNORE ME. The ZT 0300 is still a wonderful knife, and I would buy one again and again, because for me, it's worth the possibility that I might get a lemon. ZT all day, every day. If this seems contradictory -- it is! I don't like that I got a lemon, no one would, and I put my experience out there (here). But I would buy it again.

 

[Akcir]

I bought it new, yes its real, its unused, has no bladeplay and it's "tuned" just fine. That's a cute word to use to make it sound more complicated then it really is. I suspect it's just the geometry on this particular one. Like someone else said...these are not spine wacks. They're hardly taps and the knife is defective, if you disagree, so be it. Let the video speak for itself. It'd be cool if no one uses the word troll on this thread anymore. Go somewhere else if you're not talking about the knife.

"Tuning" isn't complicated.
Send the damn thing in, and quite bawling about it. How's that for cute?

 

[asdf12345]

Off topic:
Like I said, I was just putting it out there. Just one more opinion on the ZT 0300.I'm not new to knives or lock face geometry. My goal was/is not to start arguments, if I even can be said to have a goal. Let's not make assumptions.
Sorry for those who are offended by the idea of spine wack and spine wack posts, I don't know what to tell you other than overt your eyes? I like reading about why people think spine wacks are or are not valid. The time and commitment I've spent on this website is not a representation of my enthusiasm or knowledge of the working of knives so like I said, lets keep the discussion limited to the knife/the company. If you don't agree with my opinion, that's fine. If you don't believe the video is legitimate or if you believe I rigged the knife for failure, that's fine. Like I said, it's just one more guys opinion. I am and always have been a fan of KAI, I'm not trying to ruin a company, I'm just putting it out there.

Background on me is that I've been into knives seriously for about 15 years. I have an ASE in Mechanical Engineering Technology, and a BE in Mechanical Engineering. I started in manufacturing and fabrication and moved into mechanical design. I like mechanical things -- of course I love knives. My opinion is just that, my opinion.

I say arguing on here isn't a bad thing, but we should be arguing about knife (and company)-related topics, not about each others ability to form an opinion (i.e. if someone has "proved" themselves). If you just generally don't like my post, think I'm whining, or being unfair to ZT -- sorry, don't know what to tell you. Just ignore it.

Back on topic:
Disassembling most knives unfortunately voids the warranty from a lot of manufacturers. Of course I do it. Just finished putting back together my Contego (KnifeWorks exclusive in M390) after polishing the washers and replacing the backspacer with Ti standoffs. On my ZT 0300, I will say I have not taken it entirely apart, but I don't think it will be that much of a quick fix. It doesn't have early lock up either. I would really like to get into carbidizing, I looked into it a bit maybe a year ago but never followed through with a home-made set up. If anyone knows any good (cheap preferably) set ups, share with the class.

As for reviewing the rest of the knife -- I mean it's a ZT, come on. It's awesome. Blade is perfect, grinds are all even, action is smooth. I think that the blade is a little heavy for their Speedsafe system, but it doesn't much bother me. The model I showed in the video is serrated, which I wish I hadn't gotten. The first 0300 I owned was plain blade, and I thought it'd be cool to have the serrated one. Turns out I don't much care for ZT's serrations. It sits in my hand a lot like a Strider SNG, with that squarish handle, which makes sense since he had input on the design (not sure if/why he pulled out of the project, but he's not credited for the design usually). 3D texture, handles, everything else I'd look for is spot on. I love ZT's designs. I love the design of the 0300.

Another interesting thing is that in my mind, I got a lemon. But I never would have known (until an accident happened) if I hadn't spine "tapped" it.

A final thought for this post:
If you were ever considering buying a ZT, especially a ZT0300 because you like the design, and this post turned you off from it, IGNORE ME. The ZT 0300 is still a wonderful knife, and I would buy one again and again, because for me, it's worth the possibility that I might get a lemon. ZT all day, every day. If this seems contradictory -- it is! I don't like that I got a lemon, no one would, and I put my experience out there (here). But I would buy it again.

Don't bother. They won't be satisfied until you renounce everything you've said and admit that you're a troll who was just looking to bash ZT. It's not enough that you praise the knives & the company and make clear that you will keep buying from them. Until your heart is pure in your love for Big Brother KAI, the same people will jump on you every time.

 

[the kid]

Thanks for this. Not surprised the Benchmade passed the test. (you hit it quite hard to)
My cheap Chinese axis knock off is for all intent and purposes a fixed blade.

 

[craytab]

Shoot purple, we're back on track.

Off topic:
Like I said, I was just putting it out there. I'm just putting it out there.

No, "just putting it out there" would not be the crusade you have made this with your very limited and brief history here.

Background on me is that I've been into knives seriously for about 15 years. I have an ASE in Mechanical Engineering Technology, and a BE in Mechanical Engineering. I started in manufacturing and fabrication and moved into mechanical design. I like mechanical things -- of course I love knives. My opinion is just that, my opinion.

All that education and experience and you have yet to send the knife in. What is with that? Too busy to go to a mail box?

 

[knifedude802]

No, "just putting it out there" would not be the crusade you have made this with your very limited and brief history here.
All that education and experience and you have yet to send the knife in. What is with that? Too busy to go to a mail box?

No crusade, just one guy's opinion. Ignore it if it bothers you so much. There's no hidden agenda here. Not even one in plain sight really.
Just haven't gotten around to sending it in yet. Been busy. Haven't taken the time to talk with KAI and send it in, just had other stuff going on, which is all irrelevant. I have no doubt they will fix it for me when I get to it. That I haven't gotten to it is unrelated. Again, let's not focus on each other, but on the knife/company itself -- let's try to stay on track.

 

[baldtaco-II]

This thread is so weird.

I've seen a related thing on these forums before, and the timeline goes something like this:

a] I have a defective knife, it is defective because of blah. b] I may well try to get the maker to fix it. C] Some bright spark says the news [a] should have been concealed 'till after the maker had been after approached.

WTF? Even if there was never going to be a 'cos the guy threw it straight in the bin so what? The elephant in the room, the topic, the news is [a]. Supposing there is a , with either a satisfactory or otherwise outcome, great, additional news can be added later. “Maker fixed it. Good guy”. “Maker doesn't give a hoot. I wont be buying their stuff again”. Either way, is nothing more than the opportunity to provide additional news.

It really does make me wonder how some people go about conversing in meatspace. I can imagine saying to someone I have a broken toaster / kettle / car / blah. I can further imagine that I might say “I'm going to bin it” or “I'm going to go and get my money back”. Far more unlikely is that I would ever see fit to announce stuff retrospectively. “Hey, here's some news; I had a toaster, it was defective, they gave me a new one”. Similarly, “My car had a puncture. I took it to a garage and they fixed it”. Wowzers! Again, “I was sold a knife that wasn't suitable for purpose. They gave me my money back”. Dreary much.

From the perspective of an enthusiast I would have thought the interesting bit was what exactly was wrong with the apparatus. Surely that's the bit we are all clustered to know about, isn't it? The other parts are just mundane. “Some bloke got his defective knife replaced” Wow. Doesn't tell us much does it. We could probably all guess that happens without joining forums.

As for the troll epithet being banded about to beat down dissent, that's pretty low. Why all the needle? Nobody is saying “you're functioning as a sort of shill trying to play down the actuality of the defect”, are they. But to be fair, that's exactly what should be happening to those using the 'troll cudgel' 'cos it is tantamount to the same thing, and a worthy taste of their own medicine.

Just too weird.