Spine whack test?

[ThePeacent]

Whenever I have to do this

or cut some Parietaria or Hedera in the wall while hanging from the net at 20ft.

I'd rather have the lock not fail on me when the back of the blade hits the rock or the metal net

or the blade not fold trapping/hurting my fingers while trying to maneuver the knife in tight spaces

just my 2 cents

 

[singularity35]

Linguistically,no, it isn't disingenuous at all. It's a very simple statement of fact. Not understanding something by its nature cannot be disingenuous. Willful ignorance can be, but I've already admitted there is merit in a spine tap.

Ok, your other points are granted. Not understanding is not being ingenuous but stating that one cannot understand something when any half way intelligent person can easily comprehend why, seems suspect. More so that the people disagreeing with that statement are obviously intelligent from the way they post.

Once more, disagreeing with the purpose is fine but being obtuse as to the understanding the intent is something else.

 

[ncmiked]

So people whack, some people don't and some will never tell....

 

[RedLynx]

Ok, your other points are granted. Not understanding is not being ingenuous but stating that one cannot understand something when any half way intelligent person can easily comprehend why, seems suspect. More so that the people disagreeing with that statement are obviously intelligent from the way they post.

Once more, disagreeing with the purpose is fine but being obtuse as to the understanding the intent is something else.

Except you're still misunderstanding which part I don't "get," ironically. I do understand the intent, or rather, intents.

It's like this. I once tried to explain to a new member why any of us here would buy anything more than a Smith & Wesson beater folder. We went around in circles for a few pages and eventually decided he should just get another S&W to replace the one that served him well for years--which is a good idea, I might add. This guy didn't need or want anything more, and that's fine. I gave multiple reasons as to my interest, and he understood them all, but because he wasn't into knives, the way an enthusiast is, none of those reasons mattered. He certainly saw the merit, as my reasons made sense, but still didn't get it or change his mind at the end. This is the difference. Much like trying to explain our hobby to someone who just isn't interested, so too goes spine whacking. Non-whackers get what merit the whackers see, all things being equal, but it doesn't matter, because non-whackers will never convert, or vice versa, much like knives in general just can't be explained to someone not into them. Which is also fine.

Nowhere do I find the intelligence of whackers suspect, and hopefully the reverse is true.

Hopefully this clears some things up for you.

 

[singularity35]

Except you're still misunderstanding which part I don't "get," ironically. I do understand the intent, or rather, intents.

It's like this. I once tried to explain to a new member why any of us here would buy anything more than a Smith & Wesson beater folder. We went around in circles for a few pages and eventually decided he should just get another S&W to replace the one that served him well for years--which is a good idea, I might add. This guy didn't need or want anything more, and that's fine. I gave multiple reasons as to my interest, and he understood them all, but because he wasn't into knives, the way an enthusiast is, none of those reasons mattered. He certainly saw the merit, as my reasons made sense, but still didn't get it or change his mind at the end. This is the difference. Much like trying to explain our hobby to someone who just isn't interested, so too goes spine whacking. Non-whackers get what merit the whackers see, all things being equal, but it doesn't matter, because non-whackers will never convert, or vice versa, much like knives in general just can't be explained to someone not into them. Which is also fine.

Nowhere do I find the intelligence of whackers suspect, and hopefully the reverse is true.

Hopefully this clears some things up for you.

I actually do understand you and I wasn't referring to you but rather speaking in general when I discoursed about "not getting it". I quoted you to present to you what I thought of the "i don't get it" argument which most anti spine whack advocates immediately trot out.

I'm guessing they do this to put the "other side" on the defensive and have to explain and present situations where there is pressure or impacts on the spine. Immediately upon being presented with such scenarios, the "anti spine whack" crowd immediately dismiss the reasons and situations being presented as unrealistic and not "real world".

Now I don't know if you're just trying to twist my words into an being a statement that you(redlynx) don't get it but I would have said that my posts were speaking in general and somewhat as an answer to you when you presented linguistics as reason for the "I don't get it argument".

Finally, I'm not suspecting any lack of intelligence on any side but rather recognize the cleverness of the "I don't get it" crowd because it is such a subtle way attacking argument since it immediately puts the burden of proof on the "spine whack" side.

In fact, the thread you started also has the same effect because admittedly, there is a limited range of scenarios in which pressure is on the spine. However, when such limited and seldom occurring scenarios happen, I still wouldn't want the knife closing on my fingers. Even a small cut is too much when it is quite easy to determine if a lock can be defeated by pressure or impact on the spine.

I hope that that also clears things up for you.

BTW, that new member "got it". He just didn't agree with your reasons and I believe he was imprecise in his language if he said that he still "didn't get it". Not getting it denotes not understanding. If he understood that the reasons made sense, then he obviously "got it".

 

[RedLynx]

I actually do understand you and I wasn't referring to you but rather speaking in general when I discoursed about "not getting it". I quoted you to present to you what I thought of the "i don't get it" argument which most anti spine whack advocates immediately trot out.

I'm guessing they do this to put the "other side" on the defensive and have to explain and present situations where there is pressure or impacts on the spine. Immediately upon being presented with such scenarios, the "anti spine whack" crowd immediately dismiss the reasons and situations being presented.

Now I don't know if you're just trying to twist my words into an being a statement that you(redlynx) don't get it but I would have said that my posts were speaking in general and somewhat as an answer to you when you presented linguistics as reason for the "I don't get it argument".

Finally, I'm not suspecting any lack of intelligence on any side but rather recognize the cleverness of the "I don't get it" crowd because it is such a subtle way attacking argument since it immediately puts the burden of proof on the "spine whack" side.

Alrighty then, we seem to have crossed wires because I didn't know you were using the royal "you," in this case and figured if you were speaking generally you would have used "they" or something to refer to the people in general that are on the other side of this debate.

For me personally, just me, you don't have a burden of proof (though from a debate standpoint I see that you do) simply because for me no reason is necessary. "Because I want to whack the spine" is a perfectly acceptable answer for me personally. I might not get it, whether it's this or ten other reasons, but that's okay, there's no need. There would be if I'm trying to make spine testers "see the error of their ways" but I don't believe they are erring, so there is no need. Just different priorities.

All that said, as you might see in my thread about the subject I definitely appreciate real life stories where the lock holding came in handy, and like I said (I think in this thread, can't recall) I would be annoyed if my locking folder failed under normal or even slightly stressful conditions.

 

[singularity35]

Alrighty then, we seem to have crossed wires because I didn't know you were using the royal "you," in this case and figured if you were speaking generally you would have used "they" or something to refer to the people in general that are on the other side of this debate.

For me personally, just me, you don't have a burden of proof (though from a debate standpoint I see that you do) simply because for me no reason is necessary. "Because I want to whack the spine" is a perfectly acceptable answer for me personally. I might not get it, whether it's this or ten other reasons, but that's okay, there's no need. There would be if I'm trying to make spine testers "see the error of their ways" but I don't believe they are erring, so there is no need. Just different priorities.

All that said, as you might see in my thread about the subject I definitely appreciate real life stories where the lock holding came in handy, and like I said (I think in this thread, can't recall) I would be annoyed if my locking folder failed under normal or even slightly stressful conditions.

Alrighty then. May I then ask in what other terms the statement "I don't get it" can be stated in?

Although English isn't my first language, when someone tells me "I don't get it", I'd immediately interpret this to mean "I don't understand" and not as "I don't agree".

 

[RedLynx]

Alrighty then. May I then ask in what other terms the statement "I don't get it" can be stated in?

Although English isn't my first language, when someone tells me "I don't get it", I'd immediately interpret this to mean "I don't understand" and not as "I don't agree".

Well actually, it's true that I don't get it is a statement of not understanding, but I probably chose my words poorly.

I do understand all of the reasons for doing it, but much like S&W knife guy, at the end of the day I paradoxically understand that all of those reasons are valid and yet, it's still not enough. Except in this scenario I'm now S&W knife guy instead of the guy explaining to him.

I probably also spoke to soon when I said "most of us don't get it" and should not have spoken on behalf of non-spine-whackers like that.

I can see how this perspective comes across as obtuse, just like it probably sounds like S&W guy was being deliberately obtuse as well, but I don't think that's the case. I think he understood the dozens of reasons given, and saw the logic, but at the end of the day, he still didn't "get" what it is that makes others interested in this hobby. And even though I can see and appreciate spine whacking, looking at it from the perspective of those who do it, at the end of the day I too, don't get it.

That's sort of paradoxical but I'm not really sure how best to explain it... it's like, I definitely see the value of it presented from your perspective, but at the same time it hasn't caused my perspective to change, at least not fully. Though I am enjoying the anecdotes and photos in the other thread. I'm not really sure how else to explain it.

Is your native language Tagalog by the way? One of my professors married a man from the Philippines and adopted his son, that was their native tongue.

 

[singularity35]

Well actually, it's true that I don't get it is a statement of not understanding, but I probably chose my words poorly.

I do understand all of the reasons for doing it, but much like S&W knife guy, at the end of the day I paradoxically understand that all of those reasons are valid and yet, it's still not enough. Except in this scenario I'm now S&W knife guy instead of the guy explaining to him.

I probably also spoke to soon when I said "most of us don't get it" and should not have spoken on behalf of non-spine-whackers like that.

I can see how this perspective comes across as obtuse, just like it probably sounds like S&W guy was being deliberately obtuse as well, but I don't think that's the case. I think he understood the dozens of reasons given, and saw the logic, but at the end of the day, he still didn't "get" what it is that makes others interested in this hobby. And even though I can see and appreciate spine whacking, looking at it from the perspective of those who do it, at the end of the day I too, don't get it.

That's sort of paradoxical but I'm not really sure how best to explain it... it's like, I definitely see the value of it presented from your perspective, but at the same time it hasn't caused my perspective to change, at least not fully. Though I am enjoying the anecdotes and photos in the other thread. I'm not really sure how else to explain it.

Is your native language Tagalog by the way? One of my professors married a man from the Philippines and adopted his son, that was their native tongue.

Haha, ok ok. I give up. That was a bit exhausting.

I'm from a different region that speaks Tagalog but I can speak it enough to get understood. My native vernacular is Cebuano or Visayan that's spoken in the central Philippines.

 

[RedLynx]

Haha, ok ok. I give up. That was a bit exhausting.

I'm from a different region that speaks Tagalog but I can speak it enough to get understood. My native vernacular is Cebuano or Visayan that's spoken in the central Philippines.

Thanks for sharing, I'm very interested in such things personally and professionally. I haven't studied enough about the languages of your country unfortunately.

 

[The cow]

It is a pointless test that doesn't tell you anything about the folder as how you'll use it. If you ever was in a situation where you needed to actually test the spine whack, you should have brought a fixed blade.
Apply firm thumb and hand pressure on the blade. If it doesn't slip from that, its good.

 

[me2]

I don't follow... Let's just agree to disagree:thumbup:

All I'm saying is generally a lock should do is job until it is unlocked with a key or internal mechanism. If you can unlock it without using the key or mechanism, and without damaging it, it's a poor lock.

 

[singularity35]

Thanks for sharing, I'm very interested in such things personally and professionally. I haven't studied enough about the languages of your country unfortunately.

We seem to have developed a lot of different vernaculars probably because of the archipelagic nature of out geography.

 

[ursamajor]

I don't follow... Let's just agree to disagree:thumbup:

I think in a nutshell, he means that if you lock your door, and someone is then able to open your door through force with not much more effort than had it been unlocked, and there is no resulting damage to lock, frame, or door, then it is a crappy lock. I agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[singularity35]

I think in a nutshell, he means that if you lock your door, and someone is then able to open your door through force with not much more effort than had it been unlocked, and there is no resulting damage to lock, frame, or door, then it is a crappy lock. I agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm sure he understands, he just doesn't agree and just stonewalls instead of presenting a logical refutation.

 

[Sosa]

It is a pointless test that doesn't tell you anything about the folder as how you'll use it. If you ever was in a situation where you needed to actually test the spine whack, you should have brought a fixed blade.
Apply firm thumb and hand pressure on the blade. If it doesn't slip from that, its good.

Most people don't want or need a fixed blade on their belt as edc. The way locks have evolved the whole fixed blade thing seems even more unappealing.

 

[singularity35]

It is a pointless test that doesn't tell you anything about the folder as how you'll use it. If you ever was in a situation where you needed to actually test the spine whack, you should have brought a fixed blade.
Apply firm thumb and hand pressure on the blade. If it doesn't slip from that, its good.

Actually the test tells me that the knife won't easily close on my fingers if I happen to hit the spine on something while doing some work. Which is exactly the purpose of the test.

If you haven't come across a situation where an impact can occur on the spine, then I understand that you'd find the test pointless. However there are more than a few people who work in confined spaces and that particular datum is valuable to them.

Additionally, if some people find that a spine whack test offers them useful info, who are you then to tell them that it does not?

 

[trevitrace]

Most people don't want or need a fixed blade on their belt as edc. The way locks have evolved the whole fixed blade thing seems even more unappealing.

They don't want a fixed blade, but they want a folder that can emulate a fixed blade?

At least insofar as boasting about how many hundreds of pounds some folders can hold and use that single criterion as a mark of superiority over other folding knives?

 

[singularity35]

They don't want a fixed blade, but they want a folder that can emulate a fixed blade?

At least insofar as boasting about how many hundreds of pounds some folders can hold and use that single criterion as a mark of superiority over other folding knives?

They want a the convenience of a folder and if you can have a strong folder, why not?

 

[trevitrace]

They want a the convenience of a folder and if you can have a strong folder, why not?

I suppose I'm not a fan of relying on a mechanism to eliminate the potential of injury, whether it's a lock on a knife or the safety on a firearm.