Spyderco Carbon Fiber?

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Sal Glesser said:
Interesting thread. I also posted this on the Spyderco subforum thread.

I believe that Spyderco is a very transparent company, probably more so than most. I can also assure you that we try to provide all of the information in our catalogs that we believe our customers desire. When discussing handle material, most customers and dealers are interested in what the handle is made out of for look and feel, eg: Stainless steel, micarta, carbon fiber, G-10, peel ply, as a feel, etc. Most are not intersted in the chemical composition. For those that want more detailed information, eg: edge geometry angle, heat treat, etc, they will usually contact us or bring it up on a forum. We usually address those questions when asked. To suggest that Spyderco is intentionally deceiving our customers is somewhat insulting. We have no pronblem listing CF/G10 laminate, but honestly it's not been a question. Then those will ask what percentage, thickness, etc. That's forum stuff, not catalog stuff.

As far as the material is concerned; over the past 20 years that we have been using carbon fiber, we have use a variety of carbon fibers made from different manufacturers. We've used carbon fiber/G-10 laminates like the UK as well a solid CF. We've also used a variety of surfaces as well. As we learn more about the material and as different sources become available, we make adjustments. At this time, our USA made carbon fiber is solid carbon fiber 3K weave. This is also used in much of our Seki made knives as the material is made in the US and shipped to Seki. Some of it is made in Japan (eg: Nishijin). Our Taichuing maker creates his own carbon fiber. He is also a very expensive maker. In an effort to keep the costs down on the cusom carbon fiber, we use a G-10 laminate backing. Since these models also have liners, strength is not an issue. The name of the material for the Szabo is "Fold Lined Carbon Fiber". that doesn't mean that you can take out the "gold" melt it down and use it as gold. If our customers want us to provide more info, no problem. If our cusotomers want us to use solid CF on our Taichung models, no problem, it will raise the price $25-$40 per piece.

I will say that from here, it does seem like some are not truth seeking, but act like they're trying to find something that we're doing wrong or dishonest. "ohboyohboy, I found some dirt on Spyderco! I'll get out my microscopes and U-Tube videos and prove it!" When some come to our defense, for which we thank you, they are called "fanboys" or "close minded" like politicians use the "race" card or the "class" card. These forums are supposed to be for sharing information. There are few in the industry that are as open and honest about sharing information as Spyderco. Perhaps you might take that into consideration when presenting your "facts" and not make it seem like it's "bad steel" or "bad Spyderco". Just some thoughts to share.

sal
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I just want to state for myself that I never thought this for a second. Spyderco's whole motto is: "Integrity is being good even if no one is watching". Just speaking on my own behalf.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Interesting thread. I also posted this on the Spyderco subforum thread.

I believe that Spyderco is a very transparent company, probably more so than most. I can also assure you that we try to provide all of the information in our catalogs that we believe our customers desire. When discussing handle material, most customers and dealers are interested in what the handle is made out of for look and feel, eg: Stainless steel, micarta, carbon fiber, G-10, peel ply, as a feel, etc. Most are not intersted in the chemical composition. For those that want more detailed information, eg: edge geometry angle, heat treat, etc, they will usually contact us or bring it up on a forum. We usually address those questions when asked. To suggest that Spyderco is intentionally deceiving our customers is somewhat insulting. We have no pronblem listing CF/G10 laminate, but honestly it's not been a question. Then those will ask what percentage, thickness, etc. That's forum stuff, not catalog stuff.

As far as the material is concerned; over the past 20 years that we have been using carbon fiber, we have use a variety of carbon fibers made from different manufacturers. We've used carbon fiber/G-10 laminates like the UK as well a solid CF. We've also used a variety of surfaces as well. As we learn more about the material and as different sources become available, we make adjustments. At this time, our USA made carbon fiber is solid carbon fiber 3K weave. This is also used in much of our Seki made knives as the material is made in the US and shipped to Seki. Some of it is made in Japan (eg: Nishijin). Our Taichuing maker creates his own carbon fiber. He is also a very expensive maker. In an effort to keep the costs down on the cusom carbon fiber, we use a G-10 laminate backing. Since these models also have liners, strength is not an issue. The name of the material for the Szabo is "Fold Lined Carbon Fiber". that doesn't mean that you can take out the "gold" melt it down and use it as gold. If our customers want us to provide more info, no problem. If our cusotomers want us to use solid CF on our Taichung models, no problem, it will raise the price $25-$40 per piece.

I will say that from here, it does seem like some are not truth seeking, but act like they're trying to find something that we're doing wrong or dishonest. "ohboyohboy, I found some dirt on Spyderco! I'll get out my microscopes and U-Tube videos and prove it!" When some come to our defense, for which we thank you, they are called "fanboys" or "close minded" like politicians use the "race" card or the "class" card. These forums are supposed to be for sharing information. There are few in the industry that are as open and honest about sharing information as Spyderco. Perhaps you might take that into consideration when presenting your "facts" and not make it seem like it's "bad steel" or "bad Spyderco". Just some thoughts to share.

sal
Click to expand...

Well said Sal.
 
Sal, I don't think anyone is thinking that spyderco had malicious intent. It's more of a principle thing, not with spyderco but with the people of this forum.

I think even you can appreciate the ridiculousness of someone not accepting the truth, even after you clear the air. I would be extremely surprised of anyone was actually bothered by the scales being laminated.
 
No offence intended, but I think if it's a thin layer of CF overlaying G-10 the catalog should just call it what it is.
"G-10 with a Carbon Fiber overlay"
How hard could that be to do?

Just my .02, which isn't worth much. Sorry, but thats just the way i see it.
 
It is reasonable for us to want accurate specifications because we use the manufacturer's published data to make our decisions regarding our finite discretionary income. If a manufacturer finds insult in that, I'd say the manufacturer is being unreasonable to some degree.
 
Sal, thanks for the explanation. After reading this thread I'm more inclined to buy my first Spyderco in the near future. I would love to see you add one additional line in your catalog that describes the scale material used, composite or otherwise. Some buyers read the fine print, others rely on their friends that read the fine print.
 
Not a problem for us. We will add it to the next catalog, assuming we're using the same material.

sal
 
shawn_ray said:
Please tell me where you can see the peel ply structure on the dodo? How do you know that it was peel-ply before it was buffed? Do you work at the factory? When it's peel-ply then it is usually said in the knifes description at spyderco.com.
Click to expand...

No, I do not work at the factory and Im not a carbon fiber scientist, I meant my statement as a suggestion since I have seen mod work of peelply cf buffed and polished. Wasnt trying to correct you as I am a novice on the subject. I should have made that clear on my post. I read the subsequent posts that your observations are correct. Im happy for you. :thumbup:
 
Sal Glesser said:
Interesting thread. I also posted this on the Spyderco subforum thread.

I believe that Spyderco is a very transparent company, probably more so than most. I can also assure you that we try to provide all of the information in our catalogs that we believe our customers desire. When discussing handle material, most customers and dealers are interested in what the handle is made out of for look and feel, eg: Stainless steel, micarta, carbon fiber, G-10, peel ply, as a feel, etc. Most are not intersted in the chemical composition. For those that want more detailed information, eg: edge geometry angle, heat treat, etc, they will usually contact us or bring it up on a forum. We usually address those questions when asked. To suggest that Spyderco is intentionally deceiving our customers is somewhat insulting. We have no pronblem listing CF/G10 laminate, but honestly it's not been a question. Then those will ask what percentage, thickness, etc. That's forum stuff, not catalog stuff.

As far as the material is concerned; over the past 20 years that we have been using carbon fiber, we have use a variety of carbon fibers made from different manufacturers. We've used carbon fiber/G-10 laminates like the UK as well a solid CF. We've also used a variety of surfaces as well. As we learn more about the material and as different sources become available, we make adjustments. At this time, our USA made carbon fiber is solid carbon fiber 3K weave. This is also used in much of our Seki made knives as the material is made in the US and shipped to Seki. Some of it is made in Japan (eg: Nishijin). Our Taichuing maker creates his own carbon fiber. He is also a very expensive maker. In an effort to keep the costs down on the cusom carbon fiber, we use a G-10 laminate backing. Since these models also have liners, strength is not an issue. The name of the material for the Szabo is "Fold Lined Carbon Fiber". that doesn't mean that you can take out the "gold" melt it down and use it as gold. If our customers want us to provide more info, no problem. If our cusotomers want us to use solid CF on our Taichung models, no problem, it will raise the price $25-$40 per piece.

I will say that from here, it does seem like some are not truth seeking, but act like they're trying to find something that we're doing wrong or dishonest. "ohboyohboy, I found some dirt on Spyderco! I'll get out my microscopes and U-Tube videos and prove it!" When some come to our defense, for which we thank you, they are called "fanboys" or "close minded" like politicians use the "race" card or the "class" card. These forums are supposed to be for sharing information. There are few in the industry that are as open and honest about sharing information as Spyderco. Perhaps you might take that into consideration when presenting your "facts" and not make it seem like it's "bad steel" or "bad Spyderco". Just some thoughts to share.

sal
Click to expand...

Sal......from the limited interaction I have with you on this forum I have always thought you were a pretty stand up guy. You seem to take interest in your company and this thread, always chiming in to help. I know you have earned a lot of peoples respect because of it.
This whole thread was about seeking the truth. I cant believe that you cant see the ignorance in some of these post. Irrefutable evidence was presented before some members regarding what these scales were made of, yet they were still claiming BS in the name of Spyderco loyalty. Where is the objectivity or rationale in that? Is that truth seeking? From your post it seems like you encourage this type of ridiculousness.
 
I think that most people here have a misconception as to what carbon fiber actually is. It is a fabric material made from carbon graphite threads. That's all.

By itself, CF has as much solidity as a sheet of silk. CF sheets has to be stacked-up and held together with plastic resin to have any solidity. It is similar to Micarta or G10, except it doesn't use paper, cloth or glass sheets, but carbon fiber sheets - get it? That's it.

People complaining that CF isn't "solid" really don't understand what they are talking about. Without the plastic resin that gives it shape and hardness, you'd just be holding a couple sheets of fabric. It isn't some sort of magic material, and you aren't being ripped-off by anyone.

Add: Here's your carbon fiber, it is thread.
carbon-fiber-oil-crisis-2.jpg
 
CWL said:
I think that most people here have a misconception as to what carbon fiber actually is. It is a fabric material made from carbon graphite threads. That's all.

By itself, CF has as much solidity as a sheet of silk. CF sheets has to be stacked-up and held together with plastic resin to have any solidity. It is similar to Micarta or G10, except it doesn't use paper, cloth or glass sheets, but carbon fiber sheets - get it? That's it.

People complaining that CF isn't "solid" really don't understand what they are talking about. Without the plastic resin that gives it shape and hardness, you'd just be holding a couple sheets of fabric. It isn't some sort of magic material, and you aren't being ripped-off by anyone.

Add: Here's your carbon fiber, it is thread.
carbon-fiber-oil-crisis-2.jpg
Click to expand...

Good post! :thumbup:
 
timberweasel said:
I think CWL brings up a good point. I mean, is there a carat system for rating carbon fibre? :confused: I dunno, maybe there is...
Click to expand...

I don't think you give knife nuts enough credit. When some said solid they meant they thought it was a solid piece of Carbon Fiber Material. Many didn't know some of Spyderco's CF was a thin layer of Carbon Fiber material over a thicker layer of G-10. I think most on a knife site knows what Carbon Fiber, G-10, micarta, etc.. is.
 
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I really like the carbon fiber that the Taichung maker uses. It has that nice look and twill texture.

I'm pretty sure the discussion process over choosing this material went something like this: knife maker "hey, we have this nice CF/G-10 mix that we are able to give a unique texture and look to, plus it costs less." Spyderco "wow, that stuff is nicer than solid CF and its even cheaper for our customers. Win, win!"

Do the product descriptions actually say solid carbon fiber? They probably say carbon fiber, and that's exactly the material you have and see on the user interface of the knife...

It's not like they gave you pot metal and said it was titanium.
 
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