Spyderco Consumer Announcement

TheOutdoorNerd said:
First off: Nobody ever answered "MAP" to "How can we better serve our loyal customers?"

Secondly: We've already seen this in the ruthless world of flashlights. We'll end up with shady dealers offloading tons of stock on the sly to people who aren't dealers and can advertise it for whatever they want. People will start doing group buys by PM and using secret hand signals, while the "MAP Police" respond with ham-fisted, clumsy attempts to control the raw forces of economics and look bad in front of their customers. Then the good dealers, the ones playing by the rules, will be screwed. Meanwhile, the consumer pays more on average, and might even jump brands depending on the antics of the MAP Police and shady dealers. Savvy consumers who remain loyal will ultimately get the same deals they were getting before MAP--sometimes even better for unpopular models. But someone will accidentally post or leak the price, invoking the ham-fisted wrath of the MAP police, thereby completing the circle of life.

Some dealers will resent the manufacturer and probably a nice chunk of the loyal fan base will, too, again, depending on how aggressive they are with it.

So, from what I've seen, they risk a possibly huge quagmire for a negligible return. High risk, low reward.

(EDIT: And for the record, I've bought 7 Spyderco products in the last 3 days. Still a fan boy, but keeping my eye on the situation.)
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^I'd say that's a case of poorly applied MAP. When MAP is set as low as Spyderco is then the hassle and lowered return of grey-market dealings like that is a lot more of a barrier.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
^I'd say that's a case of poorly applied MAP. When MAP is set as low as Spyderco is then the hassle and lowered return of grey-market dealings like that is a lot more of a barrier.
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Yeah. Hopefully they implement it with the least impact to their loyal fans as possible. If I have to look a little harder to find the better deals in 2016, then it's probably OK. We'll see how it plays out.
 
So if the MSRP for the PITS is $400-40%=$240 . $240 for the knife I really want I guess I better get to one now before I can't afford it .
 
I don't buy Spyderco knives much any more after I discovered they don't do re-blades or have replacement parts available. The map may just be the thing that makes me write them off for good.
 
miltmaldo said:
So if the MSRP for the PITS is $400-40%=$240 . $240 for the knife I really want I guess I better get to one now before I can't afford it .
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I thought I remember seeing the PITS on the 2016 discontinued list. So now might the the ideal time.

Just went and checked, the PITS will be discontinued next year.
 
85% map on $100 msrp, but sells at 65% msrp under the table
or for a comparable knife from a different producer,
60% map on a $130 msrp, but sells at 50% msrp under the table

It's all numbers game...
 
guess I have to buy myself another PM2 and delica for christmas because like with benchmade, I wont pay retail price. There goes my business for what its worth.
 
Guess this means that buying and selling traffic on the Exchange is gonna jump all over the place...possibly along with prices.
Good for those sellers that bought their knives before the price jump, bad for the buyers there too...unless BF users frown on Exchange sellers bumping their prices up like Spyderco essentially is.
I wonder how much this will truly effect street pricing here...

Hmm....buy 'em while ya can, sell 'em after New Years.
I personally won't be pulling that crap, but other folks...well...
 
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Spyderco's MSRP's are pretty high IMO. Benchmade's products are not marked as high MSRP wise so they do not discount as deep.

With that being said Benchmade offers so much to their customer after the sale. Free pocket clips no matter if you break it or just want a different style/color, blade replacemtn for $30.00, and they warranty the knife for life! You break it they give you a new knife. So yes, you may spend a bit more on the front ened but you're taken care of. Spyderco will charge you for your clip, will not replace your blade but will regrind it if you break it, and from my knowledge only cover manufacturer defects.

My money will go to Benchmade for a production folder vs. a Spyderco now.
 
bluemetalchurch said:
Spyderco's MSRP's are pretty high IMO. Benchmade's products are not marked as high MSRP wise so they do not discount as deep.

With that being said Benchmade offers so much to their customer after the sale. Free pocket clips no matter if you break it or just want a different style/color, blade replacemtn for $30.00, and they warranty the knife for life! You break it they give you a new knife. So yes, you may spend a bit more on the front ened but you're taken care of. Spyderco will charge you for your clip, will not replace your blade but will regrind it if you break it, and from my knowledge only cover manufacturer defects.

My money will go to Benchmade for a production folder vs. a Spyderco now.
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:thumbup: This is where I have been for a couple of years now. I had to use blade replacement once and it saved me the cost of a whole new knife.

There have been some comments about Spyderco's 40% off MSRP being a much better bargain than Benchmade's 15%, which should be addressed. Sure, 40 is a bigger number on the surface of it. But with Spyderco's sky high MSRPs, 40% off of too much is still too much, imo.

I will use Benchmade as a counterpoint example, as they took such a brutalizing on these forums for instituting MAP. Quick comparison:

Spyderco Southard, made in Taiwan: MSRP $419.95 x .6 (40% off) = $251.97
Spyderco Slysz Bowie, made in Taiwan: MSRP $499.95 x .6 = $299.97
Spyderco Nirvana, made in Taiwan: MSRP $719.95 x .6 = $431.97

vs.

Benchmade 940, made in USA: MSRP $215 x .85 (15% off) = $182.75
Benchmade Vicar, made in USA: MSRP $300 x .85 = $255
Benchmade 761, made in USA: MSRP $390 x .85 = $331.5

Sure, there will be outliers like the Spyderco PM2 for $118 vs a Benchmade H&K 14715 for $107. Or an Endura for $69 vs a Griptilian for $98 -but the essence of the comparison is above. Note that the Spyderco Nirvana has a Chris Reeve full size Sebenza street price tag at MAP, with nowhere near the service level of CRK.

With the attendant costs of doing business in the USA (i.e.; paying a living wage to Americans), of actually producing in the USA with the additional lifetime service options (Lifesharp, optional re-blading), Benchmade prevails in the above comparison, imo. This is of course written by somebody already predisposed to Benchmade's policies. Someone else can jump on and represent the relative pricing of KAI, if he wants. I just don't happen to follow them.

Perhaps Spyderco will begin to price the products they have made for them (MSRP) as made in Taiwan (or wherever) and things will change. We shall see.
 
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Trollbane said:
Well, I don't by Benchmades anymore. And I sure will be more picky with Spydercos in the future.

Since I'm living in Europe the prices are pretty high for me already so I'm buying all my knives online and mostly from US stores on eBay. And here in Sweden there are hardly no local knife stores anyway so that argument goes out the window (that MAP helps them staying in business). For me, and others from Europe I guess, this just means higher prices in general. And for me, obviously, "buying american" is not an legitimate argument :). All knifes I own except Swedish brands are made overseas in one way or another so for me there is no particular reason not to by Reate, Kizer, Stedemon and other Chinese brands instead except for the fact that I really like Spydercos of course.

Sad but true. I feel that the new offerings from Spyderco is too pricey already.

/ J
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You nailed it; I agree with everything you said.

Brick and mortar stores here are selling Spydies around their MSRP right now. Delica/Endura go for more than $100, PM2 $180-200, etc.
Local online stores can be a bit cheaper, but not necessarily.

I really hope this doesn't mean higher prices here. That would suck big time.
 
ivanhoe said:
You nailed it; I agree with everything you said.

Brick and mortar stores here are selling Spydies around their MSRP right now. Delica/Endura go for more than $100, PM2 $180-200, etc.
Local online stores can be a bit cheaper, but not necessarily.

I really hope this doesn't mean higher prices here. That would suck big time.
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As in Europe, so in New Zealand. A standard Para2 here costs NZ$280-$290, a Military NZ$330-$360, a Manix XL NZ$270.

All my folders I bought from the US, so much cheaper even with shipping.
I console myself by being grateful I have 30 odd nice folders to be getting on with.

But I will wait and see how it all pans out. Nothing else I can do. Put a bit of faith in Sal Glesser and see what comes.
 
bluemetalchurch said:
With that being said Benchmade offers so much to their customer after the sale. Free pocket clips no matter if you break it or just want a different style/color, blade replacemtn for $30.00, and they warranty the knife for life! You break it they give you a new knife. So yes, you may spend a bit more on the front ened but you're taken care of. Spyderco will charge you for your clip, will not replace your blade but will regrind it if you break it, and from my knowledge only cover manufacturer defects.
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Agreed, and why I didn't rage-sell all my BMs after MAP was enforced and even bought one after. You're getting a fairly good deal with Benchmade and brick and mortar stores often have them cheaper than online these days.

This is also why I could never pull the trigger on any Spyderco over $150 and still think that's on the high side for a standard Military. I also feel like the best value with Spyderco is below $150. I have to think of my Spydies as disposable knives because say if I do snap a blade, well then it goes in the trash. So it's hard for me to justify a $300 Taiwan made Spyderco.
 
uofaengr said:
Agreed, and why I didn't rage-sell all my BMs after MAP was enforced and even bought one after. You're getting a fairly good deal with Benchmade and brick and mortar stores often have them cheaper than online these days.

This is also why I could never pull the trigger on any Spyderco over $150 and still think that's on the high side for a standard Military. I also feel like the best value with Spyderco is below $150. I have to think of my Spydies as disposable knives because say if I do snap a blade, well then it goes in the trash. So it's hard for me to justify a $300 Taiwan made Spyderco.
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Spot on. I really like the Spydie Hole. The dealer I normally go through sells about 45-50% off. With their high MSRPs 40% off makes Spyderco less of a value since they don't cover the customer the same way.
 
LMAO

Some members here seem to be hell bent on making this a "versus their favorite brand issue", when this is about Spyderco and should be discussed on its own merits. Granted, many including myself believe that any MAP enforcement is bad for us end users, as discussed by actual avid Spyderco customers, a 40% cap on discounted price is right in line with what retailers online give anyway.. we are talking Spydercos here, and the fact is, outside of TWO popular online dealers, every other dealer online and brick and mortar is well below that mark. Again, this is speaking on Spyderco and Spyderco only which is what this is all about.

All this moaning about other brands shows poor form, when other brands were getting blasted for MAP enforcement, no one on Spyderco's end was forcing the issue and constantly rubbing in that Spyderco is the better deal. For the large part, it remained about the other brands' issues in THEIR threads. Now, we got jokesters making wild comparisons like comparing Titanium framelock model prices vs their favorite brands' decades old aluminum offering in s30v steel. It shows who here pays attention to detail: The Southard that is now $250 for example at that 40% was what... $241 from most dealers before this MAP enforcement... MAP in any form sucks imo but viewed as a Spyderco customer, it is quite reasonable given that MAP enforcement is becoming commonplace in the market amid the pressures of dealers who are losing out.
 
The fact that we are not hearing much from the heavy Spyderco users on this forum much speaks volumes. If it was an issue, believe me, you'll hear it. SO far those speaking the loudest sound more like comercials for other brands.

I know.... some feel bad that when their "go to" brand went to MAP, their own fellow fans skewered said brand... but don't take it own on Spyderco for revenge :p
 
I love my spydercos, and have over a dozen various models, my personal favorites being my PMII's this being said, we shall see about buying new ones. Thankfully I have a large number already so buying new ones of this brand isnt yet necessary

I really like the Byrds however, the made in china made me hesitate until I realized the craftsmanship was still quite good




As for the MAP, its their prerogative, and again, unless it directly affects pricing negatively I could care less. Its rather socialist to arrogantly assume others should do what we want with their business. We can buy or not buy. If what they do is negative, stop buying, loss of business will affect change much faster then repeated forum posts on it. (Just my opinion.)
 
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Not to belabor my earlier point, but if this happened to an Asian import knife that I paid $250 U.S. dollars for and there was no blade replacement, I would be super bummed. If I recall correctly, the catastrophic failure of the Spyderco Southard above was the result of flipping.

Maybe the titanium handle could be sharpened and used as a knife. I don't know; I've never tried to sharpen titanium.
 
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