Spyderco Consumer Announcement

[Stays Sharp]

Now we're posting broken blades. Pathetic.

If a blade breaks in half at the pivot due to something mundane as merely opening it, I am inclined to trust that Spyderco would replace the entire knife.

 

[HammerHill]

I found this KnifeNews article really illuminating, they interview a number of major dealers about MAP policies:

What Dealers Say About the Company’s New MAP Policy

Obviously this decision is controversial - we've got some people saying it makes sense in a market where small & mid-size dealers seem to be unable to compete against the titan Amazon, and others calling it price fixing and threatening to boycott the company. Personally, I'm taking a "wait-and-see" approach.

 

[bld522]

I'm opposed to price-fixing in general. So I'll do what I've done with Benchmade products since they went to MAP pricing . . . figure out ways to get around it. I've been pretty successful doing that so far. And if it gets to the point where I can't get around it anymore, I'll simply buy somebody else's product instead.

 

[RevDevil]

Spyderco's MSRP's are pretty high IMO. Benchmade's products are not marked as high MSRP wise so they do not discount as deep.

With that being said Benchmade offers so much to their customer after the sale. Free pocket clips no matter if you break it or just want a different style/color, blade replacemtn for $30.00, and they warranty the knife for life! You break it they give you a new knife. So yes, you may spend a bit more on the front ened but you're taken care of. Spyderco will charge you for your clip, will not replace your blade but will regrind it if you break it, and from my knowledge only cover manufacturer defects.

My money will go to Benchmade for a production folder vs. a Spyderco now.

I have to disagree on a couple points here. First because unless you have a credible source for your information, it's all speculation. As such it should be stated that way. Benchmade does not "give free pocket clips". The cost of the clips is factored into the price that the knife sells for. No question about it, you cannot make money when you give away your product. Same goes for other manufacturers that have the clips "free of charge". Someone, somewhere is paying for them. The second issue is the size of the company. It has been said by many people in the past and for years, Benchmade is a much larger company than Spyderco, at least it was for a long time. I cannot speak to the employee count and square footage of the facilities of each company at present, but again if one company has more room, equipment, and more employees, of course there will be some variation in what is offered, when, and for what price if any.

It really is not logical to compare companies without taking certain things into consideration, it deflates the argument rather quickly without having details of the countless variables that go into the making of the organizations. If a knife is sent out with a functional pocket clip, and in working order (i.e., meets and exceeds QC) there should be no need for "free lunch".

 

[BMCGear]

I have to disagree on a couple points here. First because unless you have a credible source for your information, it's all speculation. As such it should be stated that way. Benchmade does not "give free pocket clips". The cost of the clips is factored into the price that the knife sells for. No question about it, you cannot make money when you give away your product. Same goes for other manufacturers that have the clips "free of charge". Someone, somewhere is paying for them. The second issue is the size of the company. It has been said by many people in the past and for years, Benchmade is a much larger company than Spyderco, at least it was for a long time. I cannot speak to the employee count and square footage of the facilities of each company at present, but again if one company has more room, equipment, and more employees, of course there will be some variation in what is offered, when, and for what price if any.

It really is not logical to compare companies without taking certain things into consideration, it deflates the argument rather quickly without having details of the countless variables that go into the making of the organizations. If a knife is sent out with a functional pocket clip, and in working order (i.e., meets and exceeds QC) there should be no need for "free lunch".

Ehh, that's ok. I wouldn't call it speculation so much as experience. I have emailed and called Benchmade for a different pocket clip "just because" and they have never charged me for them. They have sent me multiples even with screws to go along with them. I was never asked to pay for a single pocket clip. I bought a Spyderco and emailed asking about a different clip and was given the following email. If someone is offering me a great product and a "free lunch" and other perks I'd be a fool to pay for lunch elsewhere.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. To purchase a clip kit for your knife you can call the Spyderco Factory Outlet. We need to ask a few questions to make sure we get you the correct clip for your knife. Clips usually range between $3.95 to $7.95 and Salt H-1 Clips are $11.95 Shipping and Handling for USA is $1.95 and International Shipping and Handling is $5.00.
Our store hours are:
Monday – Friday 9 am - 5 pm and Saturday 10 am - 5 pm Mountain Standard Time.

A couple of others posted and I agree with them:

:thumbup: This is where I have been for a couple of years now. I had to use blade replacement once and it saved me the cost of a whole new knife.

There have been some comments about Spyderco's 40% off MSRP being a much better bargain than Benchmade's 15%, which should be addressed. Sure, 40 is a bigger number on the surface of it. But with Spyderco's sky high MSRPs, 40% off of too much is still too much, imo.

I will use Benchmade as a counterpoint example, as they took such a brutalizing on these forums for instituting MAP. Quick comparison:

Spyderco Southard, made in Taiwan: MSRP $419.95 x .6 (40% off) = $251.97
Spyderco Slysz Bowie, made in Taiwan: MSRP $499.95 x .6 = $299.97
Spyderco Nirvana, made in Taiwan: MSRP $719.95 x .6 = $431.97

vs.

Benchmade 940, made in USA: MSRP $215 x .85 (15% off) = $182.75
Benchmade Vicar, made in USA: MSRP $300 x .85 = $255
Benchmade 761, made in USA: MSRP $390 x .85 = $331.5

Sure, there will be outliers like the Spyderco PM2 for $118 vs a Benchmade H&K 14715 for $107. Or an Endura for $69 vs a Griptilian for $98 -but the essence of the comparison is above. Note that the Spyderco Nirvana has a Chris Reeve full size Sebenza street price tag at MAP, with nowhere near the service level of CRK.

With the attendant costs of doing business in the USA (i.e.; paying a living wage to Americans), of actually producing in the USA with the additional lifetime service options (Lifesharp, optional re-blading), Benchmade prevails in the above comparison, imo. This is of course written by somebody already predisposed to Benchmade's policies. Someone else can jump on and represent the relative pricing of KAI, if he wants. I just don't happen to follow them.

Perhaps Spyderco will begin to price the products they have made for them (MSRP) as made in Taiwan (or wherever) and things will change. We shall see.

Agreed, and why I didn't rage-sell all my BMs after MAP was enforced and even bought one after. You're getting a fairly good deal with Benchmade and brick and mortar stores often have them cheaper than online these days.

This is also why I could never pull the trigger on any Spyderco over $150 and still think that's on the high side for a standard Military. I also feel like the best value with Spyderco is below $150. I have to think of my Spydies as disposable knives because say if I do snap a blade, well then it goes in the trash. So it's hard for me to justify a $300 Taiwan made Spyderco.

In all honesty, I'm not trashing Spyderco. Their policies are their policies and they are going to do what is best for the company and I can't fault them. They make a really good knife as well. The ones I have owned have been good. For me the consumer their MSRPs are too high with only 40% off of that and they don't offer the services that I can get elsewhere and have for no extra out of pocket cost to me.

Again, not speculation but first hand experience.

 

[K.O.D.]

Just back from a week vacation, and just hopping on to the topic, and correct me if I'm wrong, but to summarize:

Benchmade: MAP +30% increase in price, and no discounts off MAP at all
Zero Tolerance: MAP with up to 15% lowering of MSRP
Spyderco MAP with up to 40% lowering of MSRP

I can accept the new Spyderco policy, though I'm not happy.
ZT's policy annoyed me
Benchmade's just pissed me off to the point of no return.

As far as other companies, I feel they would be stupid to implement such a system. CRKT would be digging a bigger grave if they did this.

 

[miltmaldo]

The problem with Spydero is that there MSRP is so high I mean really high . Specially their new knives that come out of Taiwan . $450 plus . That's when you are going to see a bunch of discontinued model . Like the Southard , Dice , Domino , Ribicon , Slys . All of them are going to be priced at $220 and up . ZT discontinued a bunch of knives as soon as they went MAP .

 

[stabman]

The problem with Spydero is that there MSRP is so high I mean really high . Specially their new knives that come out of Taiwan . $450 plus . That's when you are going to see a bunch of discontinued model . Like the Southard , Dice , Domino , Ribicon , Slys . All of them are doing to be $220 and up . ZT discontinued a bunch of knives as soon as they went MAP .

If they have to be discontinued, then that's the operation of the free market that people like to talk about so much.
People's buying habits will determine which models are overpriced.

 

[zippin44]

I found this KnifeNews article really illuminating, they interview a number of major dealers about MAP policies:

What Dealers Say About the Company’s New MAP Policy

Obviously this decision is controversial - we've got some people saying it makes sense in a market where small & mid-size dealers seem to be unable to compete against the titan Amazon, and others calling it price fixing and threatening to boycott the company. Personally, I'm taking a "wait-and-see" approach.

From the article link:Spyderco has set its MAP pricing at a reasonable level because the core of Spyderco’s products are worth the MAP price,” Blumenfeld concludes.

Seriously? Seems a bit far fetched to me.

 

[RamZar]

As Spyderco mentioned they're conscious of MSRP rises as well.

A note on the Mike Draper folder regarding MSRP. Although the Spyderco 2015 Retail Pricing Guide has the Mike Draper folder at a $499.95 MSRP on the Spyderco website the listing page for the Mike Draper folder reflects the actual release MSRP of $359.95.

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/2015_Spyderco_Retail_Pricing_Trifold.pdf
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=955

Spyderco has quite a few high MSRP knives which even after a 40% discount will sell for $250+. Topping them all is the upcoming Nirvana with a $720 MSRP and $430 MAP!

http://www2.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_store.html?usrsearch=Spyderco&&sortType=priceDe&

 

[Dean Crail]

The reason this happened is most dealers were only at the "regular" dealer level, people selling on amazon were on "distributor" level which is lower pricing than that of the "regular" dealers, so the people selling on amazon at the "distributor" level were actually selling the Spydercos for cheaper than the "regular" dealers could even get them directly from spyderco for. This then made it virtually impossible for regular knife sellers to beat Amazons pricing (especially with free prime shipping). So in response some dealers stopped carrying Spydercos altogether because why carry something you cant sell am I right? Benchmades MAP from what I have seen has not hurt their sales and I venture to predict it will not hurt Spydercos sales either. Even ZT has a MAP policy and you don't see people complaining about them.

 

[axtalan0]

I stopped buying Benchmade, and I can stop buying Spyderco too. Price-fixing does not benefit the consumer, and I won't participate in it.

Totally agree. I love Spydie knives, they make up about one third of my collection, but I will no longer be supporting them with my money. Sad day

 

[ATwistedStaple]

I'll buy knives that I feel are worth their price and I won't buy ones that aren't. Same as now. Spyderco has every right to implement the MAP policy as they see fit and in turn I have every right to not purchase their product if I feel the new price exceeds the products value.

I don't really see why there's anything to be upset about. There's plenty of knives on the market already that I don't feel are as valuable as their price tag, Spydercos included. Adding a few more to the list isn't going to keep something sharp from being in my pocket.

 

[whp]

True. But leveling the playing field by instituting MAP pricing policies effectively destroys competition among dealers unless they can find ways to work around those policies. After all, all other things being equal, what difference does it make who you buy from if everybody's price is the same?

You re absolutely right.

 

[zippin44]

But what is spyderco supposed to do, just sit back and watch their regular dealers all go belly up because they are all being undercut by their distributors selling direct to the public via Amazon? Maybe spyderco should just can everyone and sell direct to consumer then. It's not the way the system is set up. Plus, you got the eBay factor too. I don't like it, but seriously what else cae they really do to right the ship?

 

[stabman]

At the gun store here, if they sell it to you for MSRP with tax included, that counts as a deal.
The local Spyderco dealer was offering a 10% discount off of MSRP.

So yeah, I'm not going to lose sleep about dealers "only" being able to offer 40% off...

 

[Sal Glesser]

Thanx much for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinions. This issue has been discussed in management for close to 2 years before coming to our conclusions and implementing them. We believe this will be a good move for the entire distribution chain with little effect to the ELU (End Line User). Like you, we will be watching closely to determine effects.

sal

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, invention, design, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!

 

[gadgetgeek]

If a certain online distributor is the problem, then its a problem with that river, not Spyderco. Lots of companies have chosen to allow their products to be sold at a certain price point, and that has caused some problems for a lot of retailers. At the end of the day, its a value proposition. If a certain item has characteristics that cause it to have a market value of a certain point, then the market will support that point. Why is a Vic Compact so much more expensive than a Climber, don't know, just know it is, and know that to me, its worth what I paid used, for mine. End of story.

 

[TheOutdoorNerd]

Spyderco has earned my trust over time, and like people, I trust a company until it gives me reason not to. So, I trust this company to get its supply chain in order without throwing me under the bus. So far I see a few preorder models for 2016 that look plenty fair enough for me to buy at 40% off.

Now it all boils down to what they set the MSRP at.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

At the gun store here, if they sell it to you for MSRP with tax included, that counts as a deal.
The local Spyderco dealer was offering a 10% discount off of MSRP.

So yeah, I'm not going to lose sleep about dealers "only" being able to offer 40% off...

This has been my experience with Canadian B&M stores which sell knives as well. Doesn't matter what the brand is.

I guess MAP pricing a good thing for us Canucks. :thumbup: