Spyderco Fakes & Knock Offs Info

It is a fake. Where did you purchase it from?
 
Does anyone know if fakes are being produced of the Cru-wear military? I'm looking to buy one and Ebay is usually risky in terms of getting a fake but it's easiest to find there. I've only seen fakes of the black and digicam G10 militaries though so I'm thinking it should be fine.
 
I yet to see that version but there also fake orange militaries as well
 
New to BF and to Spyderco sub...Just read this whole thread. I will now learn the fine art of patience when searching for my new authentic, legit para2 and other spydies that float my boat. Just signed up to many reputable dealers for email notifications. It's kinda like watching finger nails grow.:eek:
 
Why do they bother making knockoffs? The point is to sell a product at a lower cost, and that will most likely give it away as a knock off. Then there's the fact that you can most likely only get these from China through specific vendors, so can they even take advantage of the marketing? A person who would even care about the marketing is most likely very much into knives as well.

I suppose the goal is to confuse people and sell the knockoff as the real deal, but how often does that happen?

Since they already have a large scale factory that can create and produce such a similar knockoff in such a short amount of time, why don't they try to make their own brand? At the very least they could alter some of the design of the knockoffs, and place their own brand on it - while shady, at least they wouldn't be trying to outright steal sales. Then they could enjoy brand value (Which would not apply to a knockoff, even though it tries to be part of a brand, since most people knows it's a knockoff.), sell to larger retailers, become part of the stock market without a lot of deception or legal maneuvering.
 
Spyderco is a popular brand known for it's quality.

Those who make the fakes exploit Spydercos good reputation instead of having to create one for themselves. I don't find it unreasonable to assume that the fakers can sell the counterfeits for a higher price than if it were the design of an unknown company.

Someone sees a Spyderco knife for a lower price than usual and think "what a great deal! I can't let this get away!".

Knife users here should be educated about what this does to spyderco, and why they should avoid the counterfeits. If you buy a fake you support that part of the industry, it's that simple.
 
sogflash said:
Spyderco is a popular brand known for it's quality.

Those who make the fakes exploit Spydercos good reputation instead of having to create one for themselves. I don't find it unreasonable to assume that the fakers can sell the counterfeits for a higher price than if it were the design of an unknown company.

Someone sees a Spyderco knife for a lower price than usual and think "what a great deal! I can't let this get away!".

Knife users here should be educated about what this does to spyderco, and why they should avoid the counterfeits. If you buy a fake you support that part of the industry, it's that simple.
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Yeah, they can probably sell the knives at a higher price, but then there's the fact that their possible avenues for distribution are getting more and more limited as people and vendors find out quicker through the internet. So, they will either have to drastically lower the prices of a model as people find out and vendors start refusing, or just stop making that one model and make another. My point is, they rely completely on external variables, and due to the other factors (Such as company value, investors, etc.), I don't think they would do much worse with a product of their own -- at least not to a degree that makes it worth it.

They are hurting other brands at what is most likely a profit margin that wouldn't change all that much with their own products and designs. There's more to a company than just the direct earnings from a sale as well - for example, sales can increase the value of a company, get them more investors so they can improve their products, or make more products, etc. (Artificial value that, depending on the actions of the company, can increase the real value.) Contracts, deals, advertisement and so forth are things that can bring value to a company, but not a company with no name that makes stuff that tries to blend in with the products from another company.
 
jac_solar said:
Yeah, they can probably sell the knives at a higher price, but then there's the fact that their possible avenues for distribution are getting more and more limited as people and vendors find out quicker through the internet. So, they will either have to drastically lower the prices of a model as people find out and vendors start refusing, or just stop making that one model and make another. My point is, they rely completely on external variables, and due to the other factors (Such as company value, investors, etc.), I don't think they would do much worse with a product of their own -- at least not to a degree that makes it worth it.

They are hurting other brands at what is most likely a profit margin that wouldn't change all that much with their own products and designs. There's more to a company than just the direct earnings from a sale as well - for example, sales can increase the value of a company, get them more investors so they can improve their products, or make more products, etc. (Artificial value that, depending on the actions of the company, can increase the real value.) Contracts, deals, advertisement and so forth are things that can bring value to a company, but not a company with no name that makes stuff that tries to blend in with the products from another company.
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You are making some semi-tangible assumptions, but a lot of your assumptions just aren't pertinent. You're thinking like the company in China is a company in Iowa that has elected to be a black market company as opposed to a publicly traded company on the up and up.

A major part of china's economy is exporting to other countries, especially the United States. Think about how much we look down on China made products, especially knives made in China - they're worthless in this market, not matter how good the fit and finish is. I don't really know of any exceptions. Even when a well known brand elects to outsource production to China, the prices and reputation drops dramatically. A Chinese brand of knives is not going to enjoy any kind of brand loyalty or increased value like you're assuming in the first place.

Now, consider that China's export isn't really knives here - it's labor. China has enough production capacity to take over Spyderco's entire production and have room to spare. They have so much production capacity and labor surplus that sites like Ali-Baba are now offering to do 1,000 piece runs of just about any product you can imagine for smaller businesses in the hope of replacing some of the larger orders that aren't being placed due to other emerging markets competing with them and global markets in Europe and America losing some of their consumption power in the last 10 years. They are already selling as many China made knives as the world wants to buy, or will want to buy in the forseeable future (which is probably more knives than every other country combined. Kitchen knives, cheap folders, box cutters, carpenter knives, and every other kind of blade imagineable is produced in China and marketed under so many different brands that I couldn't even begin to list them). They're already selling as much China made everything as they can in fact. THe factories in China were built to meet a demand that is no longer there at a time when they had zero competition - there are factories sitting idle, and workers laid off because there are no orders. Since they can't create a demand for China made goods, one other option is to satisfy part of the demand for American made goods with knock offs. Even if there was no greater markup (there is though, which is why China has been exporting knock off T-shirts, purses, shoes, DVDs and everything else of value for years) it is still a viable business plan to increase production. Sure, Blade Forums members buying from Ebay catch most of the fake Spydercos, but is Ebay really the best outlet for knock offs? I would hate to know how many stores buy the knock offs for 1/6 Wholesale and get away with selling dozens, or how many people are selling them at flea markets alongside knock off Louis Vuiton and Gucci. Somebody is obviously buying them because Ali Baba is listing many more than Ebay.

Finally, copyright infringement isn't a problem for a Chinese factory. Just like how a criminal in the U.S. can create a convoluted network of business fronts and subsidiaries to avoid taxes, launder money and create covers for other criminal enterprises, China is using many of the same tricks. These products are made alongside legitimate products that you wouldn't think twice about - your Fake Spyderco Southard could be made in the same plant as your G.E. carbon monoxide detector and your flash light. As many have noted before, some of the knock off factories have been contracted by the same companies they're ripping off in the past. Besides the factory being a contractor for a subsidiary of an LLC that is part of a Conglomerate, and the fact that China is still mostly a communist country that makes their own laws to facilitate any kind of corrupt practices they wish to harbor, their true interests aren't really clear.

Since we're such a major importer of Chinese goods, you'd think that it would be in their best interest to protect America right? That's actually true from an economic standpoint. China controls their own inflation and the price of labor by stockpiling their money, and also by loaning it back to us. However, at the same time they train hackers to target U.S. companies and our government, and they have long been suspected of playing a part in counterfiting extremely high quality American 100$ bills. Introducing counterfits attacks people's confidence, and confidence is one of our only remaining exports. Someone just said that all the knock offs are keeping them from buying more Spydercos - other countries are deterred from investing in U.S. bonds because China holds so much debt, and counterfit money weakens the strength of the dollar. In the short game China needs a strong America to continue the current trade deficit and build their global power, but it's clear that they're positioning for a much longer game that is harder to identify. Since they can't increase our demand for Chinese goods, why not move in to Military protection and consumer confidence, both of which have made the U.S. a stable superpower in the modern world.

The fact is, I don't know if anyone here is uniquely positioned to explain all of the variables that make producing knock offs a viable business model for a section of a factory in China - it's more complex than you can fathom, and odds are the government plays a role (they have their hands in everything over there). Even if the government wasn't involved, attacking the confidence of American companies does benefit the Chinese economy (at the same time it hurts the power of that company to outsource production to China, but overall it moves the perceived quality of the American products to a closer level to that of its Chinese counterpart). Even with all the extraciriccular benefits, they still have a wider markup on the knock offs, and it's part of the market that they wouldn't have access to with another product labeled "made in China".
 
A Justice said:
You are making some semi-tangible assumptions, but a lot of your assumptions just aren't pertinent. You're thinking like the company in China is a company in Iowa that has elected to be a black market company as opposed to a publicly traded company on the up and up.

A major part of china's economy is exporting to other countries, especially the United States. Think about how much we look down on China made products, especially knives made in China - they're worthless in this market, not matter how good the fit and finish is. I don't really know of any exceptions. Even when a well known brand elects to outsource production to China, the prices and reputation drops dramatically. A Chinese brand of knives is not going to enjoy any kind of brand loyalty or increased value like you're assuming in the first place.
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Yeah, good points. And I did think of a Chinese company like "A company in Iowa" - I don't really know what Americans think of Chinese made products, but I thought that they had significantly improved the quality of their products, and that it wouldn't have been *that* difficult to improve the image of a Chinese produced knife/company. But the rest of your post made it clear that this is unlikely - and even if it was, they wouldn't really care, and/or it's not in their interests. I was just pondering over whether or not any specific company, if there is such a company, that makes fakes would benefit from making their own stuff.
 
I have a question about fakes after almost biting on that fake Southard (I was a bit sleepy). I already will pretty much never buy a Spyderco from ebay after reading the stories on here. I'm even wary of classifieds on forums, after almost completing a transaction with a seemingly notorious scammer who's banned from here, but not another forum.

What I'd like to know is should I be worried about any online retailers? I'm sure the big boys like Knife Center and Blade HQ are trustworthy, but has anyone seen fakes from smaller shops? Any retailers to avoid? Or can I assume that they pretty much all get their merchandise from legit distributors?
 
PayneTrain said:
I have a question about fakes after almost biting on that fake Southard (I was a bit sleepy). I already will pretty much never buy a Spyderco from ebay after reading the stories on here. I'm even wary of classifieds on forums, after almost completing a transaction with a seemingly notorious scammer who's banned from here, but not another forum.

What I'd like to know is should I be worried about any online retailers? I'm sure the big boys like Knife Center and Blade HQ are trustworthy, but has anyone seen fakes from smaller shops? Any retailers to avoid? Or can I assume that they pretty much all get their merchandise from legit distributors?
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Not that it can't happen but reading these forums every day I haven't heard of a fake coming from any of the dealers listed here. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...t-of-BladeForums-Paid-Dealer-Members-********
 
Heads up guys, there seems to be some genuine spyderco boxes on the most known fake site. They are just the boxes and if my hunch is correct they bought some more to replicate. The boxes include:
manix 2 lw
Cricket
Bil moran upswept
Lady bug 3
Tasman salt
Stainless dragonfly
harpy

I also saw a g10 police fake already out.

They also have carrring cases and sharpmakers and full stones
Spyderco-c08s-full-whetstone-knife-sharpening-stone.jpg_250x250.jpg


They also have spyderco books "spyderco story the new shape of sharp"
 
Hello Guys,

I found this Para2 in my country for about US$110 , This seems to have Carbon Fiber but is not S90V, doesn't have jimping either

navaja-spyderco-10684-MLC20032830052_012014-F.jpg


navaja-spyderco-10622-MLC20032828750_012014-F.jpg


navaja-spyderco-10664-MLC20032830001_012014-F.jpg


navaja-spyderco-10631-MLC20032830029_012014-F.jpg


navaja-spyderco-10640-MLC20032830066_012014-F.jpg
 
Fake. This one is very easy to spot as it's a liner lock not a compression lock among other things. More like carbon fibber.
 
Here is a new one on me:

This Ebay listing http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spyderco-Paramilitary-2-Custom-Camo-Black-Blade-With-Titanium-Low-Profile-Clip-/301079430864?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item4619bb86d0

Seller is asking $299.00 - it's a regular Camo G10 / Black Blade PM2, but it does have a low ride clip.

The seller claims that there are multiple alterations including thinner blade profile, additional jimping, custom bearing system, the tip is longer - here is his description.

Ebay Seller uesijoeo said:
Spyderco Para-Military2 Digital Camouflage Black Blade

The Spyderco Para-Military2 Digital Camouflage Black Blade G-10 has several changes over the classic version. The G-10 handle is narrowed at the end improving the ergonomics. It features a Compression Lock and an ambidextrous-friendly four way clip which carries tip-up/tip-down, left/right-hand and rests deeper in a pocket.

We kept the same high-performance CPM S30V full flat-ground blade but made its profile thinner; removing angles that could catch on a pocket or clothing during deployment. We also lengthened the blade's tip and added additional surface jimping to both the spine and finger choil. Implementation of a new Bushing Pivot System generates fluid action and more consistent manufacturing tolerances.

Refinements to overall construction may not be drastic or even visible to the eye but from the G-10 textured handle to the CPM S30V steel full flat blade, everything is sharper, smoother and guaranteed to provide performance and user comfort.
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The problem is that the coating is still pristine over the entire blade - several of the listed modifications would require removing the DLC finish. The seller is basically getting 3x the selling price for a regular PM2.

Here is what really bothers me; I tried reporting it, but Ebay doesn't offer an appropriate category for the deceitful activity the seller is involved in. I reported him anyway, but the infraction I chose did not leave an option for leaving a note (I think it was fraudulent description or something), and when they see that he's not listing the type of fraudulent information they are looking for (the actual item description wasn't even part of the consideration for the given infraction), they'll pass on it and the seller will be able to keep listing a regular PM2 until eventually some noob that has never seen a Camo PM2 w/ G10 blade might bite.




Also, I visited a physical knife store last weekend. I spoke with the cashier about Fake Spydercos, and he told me a few stories. He said that one of their employees bought a fake Spyderco at a gun show and didn't find out until he came back to the store and the store owner looked at it. They scanned the box, and their system actually read the fake box like it was a legitimate Spyderco. It is almost getting to the point where Spyderco will have to put RF chips in the knives, or just make the fake company a partner.
 
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