Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

Status
Not open for further replies.
Which videos were the ones where you damaged the ZT & the Strider? The batoning or the spine whacking?

It would be beneficial to try to narrow down exactly which activities defeat which locks - overstrikes, spine whacks, batoning perpendicularly, batoning at an angle, chopping, hard cutting, weight hangs, etc. Essentially positive/negative/lateral forces either static or impact.
 
hardheart said:
Which videos were the ones where you damaged the ZT & the Strider? The batoning or the spine whacking?

It would be beneficial to try to narrow down exactly which activities defeat which locks - overstrikes, spine whacks, batoning perpendicularly, batoning at an angle, chopping, hard cutting, weight hangs, etc. Essentially positive/negative/lateral forces either static or impact.
Click to expand...

It was the Battoning videos, I beat the living crap out of them cross cutting the limbs, but neither lock failed.

MUCH Harder than in my new format that I came up with to be more fair and less abusive to the knives.
 
after seeing the pics of the Manix spring and ball bearing I would feel safer with the AXIS lock. that spring looks too small. I'd also trust a steel bolt over a slippery ball any day.
 
Ankerson said:
It was the Battoning videos, I beat the living crap out of them cross cutting the limbs, but neither lock failed.

MUCH Harder than in my new format that I came up with to be more fair and less abusive to the knives.
Click to expand...
thanks. So the 45 degree angle batoning on the 2x4 is less stressful than the batoning you did through the limbs?
 
Ankerson said:
You guys need to do some overstrikes really if you really want to test the lock, spine whacks are nothing compared to those. :D

They put a lot more stress on the lock than the spine whacks do.

I do both in all my current testing. ;)
Click to expand...

Why would a over strike put "a lot more" stress on the lock over a spine whack? A over strike relies only on the momentum of the blade while a spine whack is actually contacting a rigid structure and having the blade forced into the lock?

I'm also curious about this still but don't expect much of answer since this is not a scientific test at all. I bet most people have a hard time remembering what they were doing a week ago, much less how hard they were beating on a knife:

FlaMtnBkr said:
Since you pointed them out I will go ahead and comment. Like you mentioned the Benchmade and Spyderco were both twisted out during the cutting of the wood. The Lawman didn't get the same torque put on it. This also explains the early horizontal play especially on a brand new knife that hasn't had time to 'seat' itself. I can't measure how hard the spine whacks, over strikes, and batoning was but some do look harder especially the Benchmade over strikes. Also, the prying with the tip looked biased. The Lawman was only pried a couple times in the log and each time the wood moved easily. The one time it didn't want to move, the blade wasn't pushed but moved to a new spot. The Benchmade looked like it was pried with quite a few more times and when the wood didn't budge, it was pushed harder until it did.
Click to expand...
 
Sigh, the truth of the matter here guys, is that Tri-Ad is simply stronger than the Axis or BB. In the end, it doesn't matter what he should have done first, whittling or overstrikes, or whatever. The fact is that the CS fared better. And to those who feel that the CS American Lawman or Recon 1 feel cheap are really just hopping on the Cold Steel Bashing Bandwagon. They don't, their lockup is absolutely vault solid, no play anywhere, and the G-10 feels solid, like all G-10 does :D. Im no CS fanboy, in fact there are only 3 or so CS knives that I feel are any good, but they definetely hit a homerun with the tri-ad lock.

On to spyderco. Im a big spyderco fan, and Im still going to buy spyderco knives. I feel they have the best blade shapes and handles for cutting. I also feel that they have immaculate F&F.

But, I always felt that the ball bearing lock was over-engineered. I dont really care how smooth it opens or anything, I just want a nice simple lock that works, like a liner, frame, or lockback. Hell, my cheapo Leatherman E33L has a liner lock and it held up fine to hard spinewacks.
But, that said, I still want a Manix 2, it just look so DAMN NICE! :D
 
hardheart said:
thanks. So the 45 degree angle batoning on the 2x4 is less stressful than the batoning you did through the limbs?
Click to expand...

Yeah because I was pounding the hell out of them, like 3 or 4 times as hard.



FlaMtnBkr said:
Why would a over strike put "a lot more" stress on the lock over a spine whack? A over strike relies only on the momentum of the blade while a spine whack is actually contacting a rigid structure and having the blade forced into the lock?

I'm also curious about this still but don't expect much of answer since this is not a scientific test at all. I bet most people have a hard time remembering what they were doing a week ago, much less how hard they were beating on a knife:
Click to expand...

It does because it really jars the locking mechanisms, puts a lot of force on the lock doing that. You can total a folder in a very short time doing them that's why I limit it to 5 hits only. I have destroyed more than a few of them over the years doing that. The 1st one I killed was a Buck 110 back in the late 70's.
 
jill jackson said:
I pretty well have always accepted my ZT 0300 is probably stronger than any other folder I own. That really never made me think it was better, just different and great for some tasks and not so great at others.
Click to expand...
Totally true. It must be one of my toughest ones, but not nearly as suitable for most EDC tasks as (let's say) a Tenacious. No one ever disputed this, and there is no reason to take the failure of the Manix II so personal, as some here seem to do.
The Manix II is a very good knife, I love it, it's just not very tough.
And I don't see why that statement should bother anyone.
 
zhangmaster12 said:
Sigh, the truth of the matter here guys, is that Tri-Ad is simply stronger than the Axis
Click to expand...

Not really.
The STOP PIN was obviously harder on the CS, or the rounder interface may have contributed to less wear.
The LOCK held up splendidly.:thumbup:
 
zhangmaster12 said:
But, I always felt that the ball bearing lock was over-engineered.
Click to expand...
My feelings exactly. The French have an expression for this: L'art pour l'art. It translates to "Make if fancy so it sells." :D
There was NOTHING wrong with the backlock of the Manix I. Spyderco broke the old rule: If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I understand there's such a thing as progress. I understand the advantages of the CBBL (one-handed closing, auto-adjust to wear). I even accept the argument that for most people, this test and its result is irrelevant because their Manix will never be subjected to such stress.
But I still think the CBBL solves a non-existent problem. As such, it becomes a gimmick, a USP. And by implementing it, they've made a great knife less tough. Irrelevant to many? Then why are so many so touchy about it?
 
hardheart said:
if there was nothing wrong with the backlock, then why do we have the tri-ad lock?
Click to expand...

Simple; it's like "Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money".
I'm now waiting for someone to do this test on a Chinook 3. I'm not convinced yet that the Tri-Ad lock is much tougher than that.
I'm willing to be proven wrong though.:)
 
I don't know if it's tougher, but it looks to maybe be able to handle a bit of wear better than lockbacks. I own two right now and had a third, it's a very good lock.
 
hardheart said:
if there was nothing wrong with the backlock, then why do we have the tri-ad lock?
Click to expand...
Same reason as the CBBL. However, Demko managed to improve upon an already trusty lock, making it self-adjustable as well, but without making it weaker.
Still, at least part of the reason was the same, no doubt. People are forever craving new stuff. New steels, designs, opening mechanisms, and locks too. It sells.
 
stabman said:
Simple; it's like "Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money".
I'm now waiting for someone to do this test on a Chinook 3. I'm not convinced yet that the Tri-Ad lock is much tougher than that.
I'm willing to be proven wrong though.:)
Click to expand...
Have you handled a Tri-Ad lock knife? The ones I have (Black Rhino, Spartan, Espada) are all much broader and deeper than the Manix I (which is equal to the Chinook).
I wouldn't want to bet on the Manix I, even though it's probably the toughest folder Spyderco has ever made (that I know of, please feel free to correct me).

The Manix I won't fail the spine whacks or overstrikes, of that I am pretty sure. But if it's pitted against the American Lawman to see which one fails first in a destruction test... And this is a knife that cost 3x what the AL costs.
 
philwar said:
My feelings exactly. The French have an expression for this: L'art pour l'art. It translates to "Make if fancy so it sells." :D
There was NOTHING wrong with the backlock of the Manix I. Spyderco broke the old rule: If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

I understand there's such a thing as progress. I understand the advantages of the CBBL (one-handed closing, auto-adjust to wear). I even accept the argument that for most people, this test and its result is irrelevant because their Manix will never be subjected to such stress.
But I still think the CBBL solves a non-existent problem. As such, it becomes a gimmick, a USP. And by implementing it, they've made a great knife less tough. Irrelevant to many? Then why are so many so touchy about it?
Click to expand...


Just curious, but why do you think the Manix 1 is stronger than the Manix 2? Because it makes a louder metal on metal clunk when it opens than the II? Just an assumption? Spyderco usually only discontinues a knife because of poor sales or because enough people ask for a change. People ask for good slicers and full flat grinds so they make them. They do what people want and what sells. Either way, the change was brought about because of the consumer so blaming Spyderco seems silly. Spyderco also tests all their designs and I'm sure has broke many times more knives than everyone posting in this thread combined. I don't know why you would think they would put out a knife that consistently falls apart when they know it would result in a ton of warranty claims and bad press. They are one of the few companies that actually test their knives and give them ratings and the CBBL gets their highest rating. To my knowledge they don't advertise the ratings other than mentioning it in conversation. They most likely do it so they have an idea of what a lock can handle when they are designing a new knife that might be geared towards light, medium, or heavy duty use.

In the end it probably doesn't matter much what happens. A new video of a Manix II passing this test with flying colors won't negate this video where it broke (with a loose pivot) in the eyes of the doubters. And the fans aren't going to let one video of a lock failure with an obvious problem going into it sway their confidence of the lock until there is more proof and a larger sample size than 1.

I would have no problem accepting the CBBL is not a hard use lock if I saw some more evidence that shows it fails consistently without a loose pivot. But I'm not going to say it is weak when it failed so easily and had an obvious issue at the beginning of the test. If a pivot coming loose when a knife is used for the first time is an issue for you then I guess it is a terrible design. But a loose pivot is something I can easily adjust and is something I check and adjust on all my knives when I first get them.

If the pivot doesn't have loc tite on it then that could be viewed as a problem I guess. Fasteners work and stay tight by being tightened down which preloads the screw and puts it in tension. A lock washer works because it increases the tension. In a pivot where the screw needs to be loose to allow the blade to pivot, there needs to be some other way of staying tight which is a thread locker like loc tite or teflon tape. If there was no thread locker then I could see this being a valid complaint but ruling out the lock is premature as far as I am concerned.
 
Last edited:
I thought Spyderco said that the CBBL surpassed the original Manix it lock strength. Let me see if I can dig that up.
 
Thanks for conducting these tests and posting the results. I "was" a Manix 2 fan before this and as an owner of one of them I often wondered about the locking mechanisms durability. The proof is in the pudding and I would rather have an American Lawman by my side after seeing these vids. Maybe thats why I own a Trailmaster and Recon Scout? I thought these were fair tests for all knives and were certainly not excessive abuse.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top