Spyderco Manix 2 vs. Zero Tolerance 0350 ? Your thoughts please...

Funny how the Manix XL keeps coming up.

On the ZT350s the torsion bars breaking is and issue on older modles with no detent

Like mine.No detent Its in the Ser#300's.

Like I said Get both.
 
I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).
 
Owned both..... Both are great knives. No longer own either but I regret getting rid of the 350 and will own one again at some point.
 
I like the ZT0350, but like everything about the Manix 2 better. They're both great knives.
 
o4tg said:
I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).
Click to expand...

Love my strider SA in off hand pocket :)
 
o4tg said:
I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).
Click to expand...
Even though I don t generally like assisted opening knives and don t care that much about flippers, I agree with the points made here. An assisted flipper will be the easiest folder to access under extreme stress. But the chances that I will need a folder for self defense are less than 1 in 10,000. For people in certain situations other than mine, their self defense needs are greater. I like my 350 better deassisted. Fine sturdy knife.
 
That's a tough one for me. I own both and don't really like either one a lot. I prefer the ZT's assisted opening, hate the pocket clip so replaced it with a Gavin Hawk DLC coated pocket clip but that's just as hard to use. The Manix2 fits better in my hand (less hot spots than the 350), and is probably easier to sharpen since it isn't a recurve like the ZT. All that said, I'm currently selling both, along with a couple other folders that I don't use. The "tough" Spyderco and ZT I'm hanging on to are my PM2 and 0566.
 
NaturalMystic said:
That's a tough one for me. I own both and don't really like either one a lot. I prefer the ZT's assisted opening, hate the pocket clip so replaced it with a Gavin Hawk DLC coated pocket clip but that's just as hard to use. The Manix2 fits better in my hand (less hot spots than the 350), and is probably easier to sharpen since it isn't a recurve like the ZT. All that said, I'm currently selling both, along with a couple other folders that I don't use. The "tough" Spyderco and ZT I'm hanging on to are my PM2 and 0566.
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How is that clip? Ive never had the chance to hear about it from someone who has one.
 
The Manix 2 is the best fit for my hand of any folder I've handled, which is saying a lot. The ergonomics are truly outstanding. Everything about the version I carry (CPM S30V, FFG, steel liners, G-10) is solid, strong, and very well fitted. There is not a knife that I would prefer over this one, other than maybe grip color variety in the same configuration :)
 
SixStringSamurai said:
How is that clip? Ive never had the chance to hear about it from someone who has one.
Click to expand...

The clip definitely adds a nice touch to the knife, it's just very stiff when you press on it to clip it in your pocket. At least for me it is anyways. The other thing is that I like low rider clips.
They're both very good knives, just not my favorite by either maker. I've got about 18 Spydercos and 6 Kershaw/ZTs and both have models I prefer carrying.

Forgot to add a pic of the Hawk clip:
 
o4tg said:
I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).
Click to expand...

The question now is, how much more does the Spyderhole take to open compared to all the other methods? In your opinions/experiences under the same token, you are making it sound like it is that much harder to deploy via a opening hole in tactical situations. Spyderco was in the self defense knife business since the genre's infancy. Just because you lack the dexterity, there's no denying that a good majority of people find no problem using it. The vast majority of people who carry knives whether it be auto, studded, opening hole, wave, assisted or flipper have no problem with using all these methods, it just goes down to a favorite/preference. People who prefer the opening hole surely arent denying the capabilities of the other systems... I can easily use any of these methods and yes, in a defensive situation. It's ok to not have enough confidence in the Spyderhole like yourself but you can't really knock it either. With trivial practice it will be as automatic as clenching your fists. One rule of thumb is of course to stick with the same system consistently and since I own many Spydercos, I do tend to stay true to that and use a knife dozens of time throughout the day especially at work. Being a lover of knives though, of course the other methods are well represented in my collection, and I gotta use them...So I do....Opening a knife isn't really a mystery, 99% of the population can be adept with all of them to allow deployment in a flash. I'm glad you have what works for you figured out though, that's what it is all about.

I carry a G19 and other handguns its size. A small fixed blade is an excellent option but in CA, carrying a fixed blade must be unconcealed in plain view. Not something I want to do in a extremely urbanized area while already carrying a concealed handgun! Pocket knives however have no length limit so that's a very good thing. Given the choice though, I'd love to carry a fixed blade.
 
NaturalMystic said:
The clip definitely adds a nice touch to the knife, it's just very stiff when you press on it to clip it in your pocket. At least for me it is anyways. The other thing is that I like low rider clips.
They're both very good knives, just not my favorite by either maker. I've got about 18 Spydercos and 6 Kershaw/ZTs and both have models I prefer carrying.

Forgot to add a pic of the Hawk clip:
Click to expand...

It sure looks sweet. I may have to pick up a few now....dammit.
 
Stays Sharp said:
The question now is, how much more does the Spyderhole take to open compared to all the other methods? In your opinions/experiences under the same token, you are making it sound like it is that much harder to deploy via a opening hole in tactical situations. Spyderco was in the self defense knife business since the genre's infancy. Just because you lack the dexterity, there's no denying that a good majority of people find no problem using it. The vast majority of people who carry knives whether it be auto, studded, opening hole, wave, assisted or flipper have no problem with using all these methods, it just gooes down to a favorite/preference. People who prefer the opening hole surely arent denying the capabilities of the other systems... I can easily use any of these methods and yes, in a defensive situation. It's ok to not have enough confidence in the Spyderhole like yourself but you can't really knock it either. With trivial practice it will be as automatic as clenching your fists. One rule of thumb is of course to stick with the same system consistently and since I own many Spydercos, I do tend to stay true to that and use a knife dozens of time throughout the day especially at work. Being a lover of knives though, of course the other methods are well represented in my collection, and I gotta use them...So I do....Opening a knife isn't really a mystery, 99% of the population can be adept with all of them to allow deployment in a flash. I'm glad you have what works for you figured out though, that's what it is all about.

I carry a G19 and other handguns its size. A small fixed blade is an excellent option but in CA, carrying a fixed blade must be unconcealed in plain view. Not something I want to do in a extremely urbanized area while already carrying a concealed handgun! Pocket knives however have no length limit so that's a very good thing. Given the choice though, I'd love to carry a fixed blade.
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My point is there are a lot less situations in a physical confrontation where you'll have trouble opening an assisted flipper compared to a non assisted thumbhole. Then again OTF's are king in that aspect for non fixed bpades, which is also why they're illegal in so many states.

I bought my first Spyderco because it was the first knife I ever saw (aside from old school stilettos) that didn't require a fingernail to open. That was back in the early 90's though, and I truly think the flipper is leaps and bounds better as a fast opener. I'm sure there are guys who can open an Opinel in a flash, but things change when the adrenaline is flowing.

Do you practice with both hands? I could get my Tenascious open somewhat quick with my right hand, but opening it with my left was quite a chore even under optimal circumstances. I'd hate to be trying to open it with my left hand at all with someone raining punches down on me or worse, trying to gain control of my CCW.
 
o4tg said:
My point is there are a lot less situations in a physical confrontation where you'll have trouble opening an assisted flipper compared to a non assisted thumbhole. Then again OTF's are king in that aspect for non fixed bpades, which is also why they're illegal in so many states.

I bought my first Spyderco because it was the first knife I ever saw (aside from old school stilettos) that didn't require a fingernail to open. That was back in the early 90's though, and I truly think the flipper is leaps and bounds better as a fast opener. I'm sure there are guys who can open an Opinel in a flash, but things change when the adrenaline is flowing.

Do you practice with both hands? I could get my Tenascious open somewhat quick with my right hand, but opening it with my left was quite a chore even under optimal circumstances. I'd hate to be trying to open it with my left hand at all with someone raining punches down on me or worse, trying to gain control of my CCW.
Click to expand...

Sorry to get off topic, but I left you a visitor message..
 
o4tg said:
My point is there are a lot less situations in a physical confrontation where you'll have trouble opening an assisted flipper compared to a non assisted thumbhole. Then again OTF's are king in that aspect for non fixed bpades, which is also why they're illegal in so many states.

I bought my first Spyderco because it was the first knife I ever saw (aside from old school stilettos) that didn't require a fingernail to open. That was back in the early 90's though, and I truly think the flipper is leaps and bounds better as a fast opener. I'm sure there are guys who can open an Opinel in a flash, but things change when the adrenaline is flowing.

Do you practice with both hands? I could get my Tenascious open somewhat quick with my right hand, but opening it with my left was quite a chore even under optimal circumstances. I'd hate to be trying to open it with my left hand at all with someone raining punches down on me or worse, trying to gain control of my CCW.
Click to expand...

I still think a waved knife is faster than any other type of folder. An otf you still have to hit the button. A waved knife is already open once it clears your pocket.
 
scsu74 said:
I still think a waved knife is faster than any other type of folder. An otf you still have to hit the button. A waved knife is already open once it clears your pocket.
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I can't speak to all wave knives but I have a Cold Steel AK-47 and I have to make a pretty conscience effort to wave it. Again, maybe the emerson and spyderco wave's aren't the same, I don't know. But I have to pull it out of my pocket while also holding it towards the back of the pocket. For me personally, I don't think it would really be that easy in a situation where I'm already tied up with someone on the ground.
 
I hear ya 04tg, they all (deployment methods) have distinct advantages that appeal to individuals. No denying that an assisted flipper is fast and efficient. Personally, I go unassisted with flippers and I appreciate the benefits the same. I'm into flippers also.

A point I was trying to bring across is that I do not feel under-equipped when I do carry a knife that isn't an assisted flipper. Axis with studs, Spydiehole, wave... Consistency is ideal but as a knife nut, I wont always have the same deployment method so becoming adept at all of them is just part of the game for me and many others. Some, keep it the same intentionally to stay consistent and maybe their focus is a more SD side of things as compared to knife-as-tool-first. Would I feel like Im in good shape with a Manix in my pocket? You bet. To each his own, just saying that when I carry with other methods, I do not have the same concerns as you nor do I feel like I am lacking because it isn't an AO flipper.
 
Well said indeed.


o4tg said:
I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).
Click to expand...
 
o4tg said:
I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).
Click to expand...

I think a spyderhole can be opened as quick as a flipper. Its just a flick of the thumb instead of index. One may prefer the flipper, but they are both fast. I think the assist is nice for a tactical situation, but that's unrelated to the flipper vs spyderhole. I prefer non assisted. Especially with a big old spyderhole I think it should be pretty deployable.
 
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