Spyderco Manix 2 vs. Zero Tolerance 0350 ? Your thoughts please...

[jimmyd1982]

If you really want fast opening just put a zip tie in the spyder hole. It waves open with no effort at all.

 

[mark greenman]

I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).

I'm not aware of a single edged weapons instructor who advocates for assisted openers, or has designed an assisted opener specifically for Self Defense.

By comparison, Spyderco's are carried by numerous SD instructors (Michael Janich, Soutnarc, many others) and has extensive collaborations with instructors over the last decade.

Additionally, from a biomechanical standpoint deploying the flipper is a finer motor skill than the Spyderhole because it requires the grip to shift in order to extend the index finger and deploy the flipper. By comparison, when set up for tip down, the spyderco can be grabbed and deployed with the thumb without having to shift the grip at all.

As for deployment speed, it's simply a matter of experience. My less knife skilled friends have difficulty getting the backlock spyderco's to open smoothly. But having carried one myself for over 10 years, I'm in the 1 second deployment speed from IWB with my Endura.

 

[K.O.D.]

I've had both, kept the Manix. The bbl lightens up quite a bit over time, and imo is stronger than a liner lock. The Manix has many options in blade steel and there is also the lightweight version. With the zt the only option I know of is m390. Im not an assisted open fan, and don't care for the flipper or blade shape of it. My Manix 2 is the sprint in cts xhp and it is phenomenal. I also feel the ergos are better on the Manix. Plus I prefer holes to studs.

 

[TheseusTheDestroyer]

I dislike the spyder hole. Especially in a defensive situation. A Spyderco can be opened fast, but anyone who says it doesn't take more effort than a flipper is purely in denial.

If you're carrying a firearm and having to use a knife for defense, that's likely because the attack has already turned into a physical engagement. If you have an attacker on top of you, do you think having to perform a precision finger and wrist flick is going to be easy? Do you really want a slow opening high motor skill knife while wrestling a bad guy who is just realizing you have a G19 in your wasteband?

For defensive purposes, I would keep an assisted 0350 in my weak side pocket. Most people have the idea using a knife in defense will be pulling it out as the guy approaches with clear intent. Where as it's much more likely you won't even have time to think of pulling the knife until after you've eaten a punch or are rolling around on the ground. I assure you, when the adrenaline is flowing and things have already gone bad, ease of opening is a very key feature. And ease of opening isn't just about a knife that feels nice opening under optimal conditions.

Any real defensive class will say carry a small fixed blade if you plan on carrying a firearm as well. Even in a random fist fight, once a gun or knife is introduced it becomes a fight for one's life with both parties. Take every advantage you can get. Assisted flipper opening is great otherwise because it takes the most likely thing to fail out of the equation, that being your fine motor skills (as well as the need for considerable movement to deploy fast).

You mentioned carrying the 0350 on your weak side, and if you do you should go tip up so that you can just pull it out without deploying the blade.

Many people don't realize the 0350 is an excellent striking tool by design and due to weight, just hold it in this grip and it turns into a rock solid striker especially beside you'd be striking with the butt jimping.

(ZT 0350TS)

Several knives are set up and designed for one to be able to use as a striking tool, this also makes the weapon less lethal and saves you trouble down the road when you have to go to court
(Emerson Combat Karambit)

(CRKT M16-14SFG)

 

[HorseloverFat]

I'm not aware of a single edged weapons instructor who advocates for assisted openers, or has designed an assisted opener specifically for Self Defense.

By comparison, Spyderco's are carried by numerous SD instructors (Michael Janich, Soutnarc, many others) and has extensive collaborations with instructors over the last decade.

Additionally, from a biomechanical standpoint deploying the flipper is a finer motor skill than the Spyderhole because it requires the grip to shift in order to extend the index finger and deploy the flipper. By comparison, when set up for tip down, the spyderco can be grabbed and deployed with the thumb without having to shift the grip at all.

As for deployment speed, it's simply a matter of experience. My less knife skilled friends have difficulty getting the backlock spyderco's to open smoothly. But having carried one myself for over 10 years, I'm in the 1 second deployment speed from IWB with my Endura.

You have made several good points. Thank you. BTW : Do you happen to know which Spyderco(s) are carried by the SD instructors that you referred to? Perhaps the Endura Wave model?

 

[HorseloverFat]

I've had both, kept the Manix. The bbl lightens up quite a bit over time, and imo is stronger than a liner lock. The Manix has many options in blade steel and there is also the lightweight version. With the zt the only option I know of is m390. Im not an assisted open fan, and don't care for the flipper or blade shape of it. My Manix 2 is the sprint in cts xhp and it is phenomenal. I also feel the ergos are better on the Manix. Plus I prefer holes to studs.

I'm leaning towards the Manix. However, I'm not quite sure which one to choose for my first as there are too many to choose from. I would also like a knife to carry with my Glock for more tactical purposes and this is why I'm considering the ZT 0350. Perhaps I should consider the Manix 2 XL, it is cheaper than the regular Manix 2, after all.

 

[HorseloverFat]

You mentioned carrying the 0350 on your weak side, and if you do you should go tip up so that you can just pull it out without deploying the blade.

Many people don't realize the 0350 is an excellent striking tool by design and due to weight, just hold it in this grip and it turns into a rock solid striker especially beside you'd be striking with the butt jimping.

View attachment 432627(ZT 0350TS)

Several knives are set up and designed for one to be able to use as a striking tool, this also makes the weapon less lethal and saves you trouble down the road when you have to go to court
View attachment 432629(Emerson Combat Karambit)

View attachment 432630(CRKT M16-14SFG)

I never considered that it may simply be used as a striking tool. Thanks...