Spyderco Military CF 52100

fetzer85 said:
So is peel ply a thin layer of CF over top of G10?
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Nope. Google will tell you all you need to know. But it is basically complete carbon fiber just with a layer of resin on the outer surface that had a textured sheet on it that is removed, or peeled off, to reveal the grippy texture like G10.
 
fetzer85 said:
Hmm, I see the weight is 4.2oz which is the same as a standard G10 military. Wouldn't CF be noticeably lighter than G10 on the scale?
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No. There's not enough of either in the Military to make a difference you could notice in real life. You might be able to measure it on a scale - the 4.2 oz may have been copied from the G10 version.

fetzer85 said:
So is peel ply a thin layer of CF over top of G10?
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No, solid, just like G10, but CF instead of fiberglass.
 
NoFair said:
CF models are about 10 grams lighter than G10 (slight variations from generation to generation)
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Well that's roughly 0.35oz, so maybe the listed weight will drop closer to 4oz closer to release. (I'm not particularly picky over such small weight differences, I just expected the CF to the lighter)
 
nccole said:
What is it you like about ball bearing steels?
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The only other one I've seen used in knifemaking is BG-42.... still one of my favorite "super steels" even if it isn't used much anymore (sourcing and cost are probably major contributors).

I love all steels where the original intent was for use in tooling, and "discovered" that they also happen to make for a great blade steel after the fact.

Ball-bearing steels make for wonderful blades due to their inherent nature of having to maintain structural integrity as a single point (or points) at any given time (imagine the contact area necessary when you put 2 ball-bearings next to each other, it's very minimal). Now think of the very edge of the knife blade: a very small contact point along the edge and the material you are cutting. Bearings have to be extremely wear-resistant to maintain contact at all possible surfaces. So the heat treat is key, like with any tooling application. Too soft, the bearing develops warping over a long period of time. Too hard can also cause structural integrity issues. Delicate balance of engineering for "just a metal sphere." :)

Maybe Sal can chime in if he see's this, as he is way more knowledgeable than my surface-level understanding. The included Edge-U-Cation paperwork with my BG-42 Military was very illuminating.
 
symphonyincminor said:
The only other one I've seen used in knifemaking is BG-42.... still one of my favorite "super steels" even if it isn't used much anymore (sourcing and cost are probably major contributors).

I love all steels where the original intent was for use in tooling, and "discovered" that they also happen to make for a great blade steel after the fact.

Ball-bearing steels make for wonderful blades due to their inherent nature of having to maintain structural integrity as a single point (or points) at any given time (imagine the contact area necessary when you put 2 ball-bearings next to each other, it's very minimal). Now think of the very edge of the knife blade: a very small contact point along the edge and the material you are cutting. Bearings have to be extremely wear-resistant to maintain contact at all possible surfaces. So the heat treat is key, like with any tooling application. Too soft, the bearing develops warping over a long period of time. Too hard can also cause structural integrity issues. Delicate balance of engineering for "just a metal sphere." :)

Maybe Sal can chime in if he see's this, as he is way more knowledgeable than my surface-level understanding. The included Edge-U-Cation paperwork with my BG-42 Military was very illuminating.
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Very cool and seems very logical, atleast to my limited understanding.
 
fetzer85 said:
Well that's roughly 0.35oz, so maybe the listed weight will drop closer to 4oz closer to release. (I'm not particularly picky over such small weight differences, I just expected the CF to the lighter)
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It is an almost 10% weight reduction so it is actually a quite substantial reduction.
 
I think that symphonyincminor explained it very well. When I forged blades, I used 52100.

sal
 
No question 52100 is good at doing what it does and is well respected. Despite that it isn't often seen in folders and goes against conventional wisdom of customers only wanting stainless knives. It will be another classic highly valued down the line and will bring some other companies fans in as well as us Spyderco regulars. I'm glad you picked 52100. Thanks Sal!

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
No question 52100 is good at doing what it does and is well respected. Despite that it isn't often seen in folders and goes against conventional wisdom of customers only wanting stainless knives. It will be another classic highly valued down the line and will bring some other companies fans in as well as us Spyderco regulars. I'm glad you picked 52100. Thanks Sal!

Joe
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Any personal experience with it Joe? You are the reason I tried CRUWEAR and it's currently my favorite steel.
 
Hey Cole. I have several knives in 52100 and have liked it a lot since I first tried it in the middle 90's. It's strong, has good edge stability for thin edges and doesn't get too chippy at the hardness Sal was talking about running it ( appx. rc 62?) . It won't have the abrasive wear resistance on rope and cardboard that steel alloys with vanadium and tungsten give but it should do better if you like really thin edges. I'm fine at 30 degrees inclusive, not 15 like some so I may never really push these steels to the edge of the performance range like some but I like what it gives me at the thinish side of my edges.

It has been used in a few competition knives by guys like Ed Schempp which says more than I can about it's toughness at fairly thin edges along with decent enough abrasive wear resistance. If I'm not mistaken they can't resharpen the knives during competition and edge failure ends their day. Ed can use any steel he wants including his own performance damascus. I'm not sure if he still uses it currently. Maybe he will stop by and clear it up. He has a way of hearing people call his name. :)

Anyway, it is what it is. Not for everybody to be sure. That Sal wanted one for himself to use around his place says something too. Another person that can use anything they want. It's a compromise steel like all others though and if you don't want to care for a knife and if the idea of a rust spot ( easily removed with cloth) means the knife is destroyed than this may not be the one.

Cole, do you ever get up to the Raleigh stop of the Dixie Gun & knife show?

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Hey Cole. I have several knives in 52100 and have liked it a lot since I first tried it in the middle 90's. It's strong, has good edge stability for thin edges and doesn't get too chippy at the hardness Sal was talking about running it ( appx. rc 62?) . It won't have the abrasive wear resistance on rope and cardboard that steel alloys with vanadium and tungsten give but it should do better if you like really thin edges. I'm fine at 30 degrees inclusive, not 15 like some so I may never really push these steels to the edge of the performance range like some but I like what it gives me at the thinish side of my edges.

It has been used in a few competition knives by guys like Ed Schempp which says more than I can about it's toughness at fairly thin edges along with decent enough abrasive wear resistance. If I'm not mistaken they can't resharpen the knives during competition and edge failure ends their day. Ed can use any steel he wants including his own performance damascus. I'm not sure if he still uses it currently. Maybe he will stop by and clear it up. He has a way of hearing people call his name. :)

Anyway, it is what it is. Not for everybody to be sure. That Sal wanted one for himself to use around his place says something too. Another person that can use anything they want. It's a compromise steel like all others though and if you don't want to care for a knife and if the idea of a rust spot ( easily removed with cloth) means the knife is destroyed than this may not be the one.

Cole, do you ever get up to the Raleigh stop of the Dixie Gun & knife show?

Joe
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Joe,

I haven't been, no. In fact, I haven't been to anything outside of a gun and knife show here in Indy, and that was lacking in the knife part. One of these days, just have to find something exciting for the wife to do and make a trip out of it.
 
I wonder if Spyderco will consider a 5160 knife, at some point? I've owned more 5160 knives than any other single steel, and been very happy with almost all of them. (Then again, most of them have been big choppers.) I know it's a simple, inexpensive steel compared to most Spyderco steels, but something like a Bradley Bowie in 5160 would be incredible, and in my experience, 5160 is less prone to rust than 52100.

L-R:
RTAK 2, Shirley-Owens Camp Defender, Troy Christianson hawk
RTAK and Camp Defender are 5160
SAM_0148-337x450.jpg


John
 
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A millie in 52100...and here I thought I was done buying folders...
Here's a delica with a forced-patina 15n20 blade, just for a chuckle...
 
Cole, I'm sorry about the confusion. I thought you were living in NC. I should have payed better attention.

John, be aware there is a Buck 110 in 5160 available from a dealer ( not Buck itself). It is built well in the custom shop and has oak or dark laminate grips with brass on both. It is a good price for a custom shop built 110.


Joe
 
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