Spyderco moving to MAP pricing!

bld522 said:
Figure it any way you want to, Jim, but Internet retailers like KC and BHQ and GPK and many, many others can and do sell LOTS of high-end knives. Don't believe me? Ask them.
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They are small even combined compared to Walmart and their volume.

Won't even get into Amazon and the other Big Box stores.
 
Somehow they seem to be surviving just fine despite the existence of Amazon and Walmart and other Big Box stores. How do you imagine they've been able to accomplish that? And if they're really concerned about the impact of the Big Box stores, why aren't they all dancing in the aisles about having to implement MAP pricing? They should be happy about it, shouldn't they?
 
bld522 said:
Somehow they seem to be surviving just fine despite the existence of Amazon and Walmart and other Big Box stores. How do you imagine they've been able to accomplish that?
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They don't just sell high end products. ;)

Amazon and Walmart are the largest retailers on the planet by far.
 
Ankerson said:
You can't be that naïve.
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Props on the proper spelling of naïve. :thumbup:

Not naïve, no. And your assertion may very well be accurate. However, I distrust the trump card of "this is researched fact" in a internet forum when there's nothing provided to substantiate the claim. Perhaps I've spent too many years in higher education to appreciate a-priori arguments, but I prefer citations.
 
Ankerson said:
They don't just sell high end products. ;)

Amazon and Walmart are the largest retailers on the planet by far.
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So what's your point? That consumers shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of the efficiencies their size provides?
 
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FriarPhenn said:
Props on the proper spelling of naïve. :thumbup:

Not naïve, no. And your assertion may very well be accurate. However, I distrust the trump card of "this is researched fact" in a internet forum when there's nothing provided to substantiate the claim. Perhaps I've spent too many years in higher education to appreciate a-priori arguments, but I prefer citations.
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I know you are an idealist. :D

And that's fine, but not everything fits into a nice little box like a lot of people thinks they should.

Ideally everything would and if everything worked ideally the way things really should it would be a perfect world.

However they don't and it's not.

The legal system in this country is very corrupt to the point that those with the most money can do just about anything they want and they really do except in rare cases.

I won't get into it deeper because that would belong in political.
 
No. I'm looking at it from a very broad viewpoint. People should be able to buy products at the lowest possible cost the market is capable of providing if that's what they want to do and manufacturers shouldn't get in their way. That seems pretty broad to me.
 
Well, KSF stopped carrying spyderco in the last year, so that's one specialty online(mostly, they do have a B&M) retailer that has been unable to compete with Amazon etc. Another tactic that the big box stores can and have used, is once they control a majority of a manufacturer's business, they can demand a lower price with a threat of stopping purchases. I believe it is completely understandable for manufacturer's to take steps to avoid being put in a situation like that.

I would be curious to see a breakdown of Spyderco's sales, I'll bet there are a few companies that make up a large percentage, and it isn't BHQ or KC.
 
bld522 said:
No. I'm looking at it from a very broad viewpoint. People should be able to buy products at the lowest cost availalbe if that's what they want to do, and manufacturer's shouldn't get in their way.
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People do, and that's why Walmart is one the biggest retailer in the World in general.

Manufactures have been setting prices forever in most markets outside of the knife industry.

It was only a matter of time before the knife industry followed along.

Almost everything we buy these days really.
 
Davidfs said:
Well, KSF stopped carrying spyderco in the last year, so that's one specialty online(mostly, they do have a B&M) retailer that has been unable to compete with Amazon etc. Another tactic that the big box stores can and have used, is once they control a majority of a manufacturer's business, they can demand a lower price with a threat of stopping purchases. I believe it is completely understandable for manufacturer's to take steps to avoid being put in a situation like that.
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Right. And the way manufacturers accomplish that is by forcing consumers to pay more for their products than they would have to pay if the market were allowed to operate without their interference. And you call that a win?
 
I guess my point wasn't clear, Wal-Mart has put small manufacturer's out of business with this practice, which I would call a far greater loss. It isn't perfect, but show me something that is...
 
Davidfs said:
I guess my point wasn't clear, Wal-Mart has put small manufacturer's out of business with this practice, which I would call a far greater loss. It isn't perfect, but show me something that is...
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More than few of them that's for sure, and not just the small ones either.
 
So manufacturers should protect themselves from companies like Wal-Mart by forcing consumers to pay more for their products than consumers should have to pay? I'm confused.
 
Ankerson said:
I know you are an idealist. :D

And that's fine, but not everything fits into a nice little box like a lot of people thinks they should.
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You know this? I think you'd be surprised.

But since we're on idealism, educate me. How is the assertion that MAP would necessarily protect the interests of knife-specific retailers, Spyderco, and the consumer all at once not even the least bit idealistic?

If this was a conversation on the nature of a free market economy when government overreach and big-business corruption interfere with it that laid aside presuppositions about the benefit/costs of unrestrained competition, and THEN presented the idea that MAP may possibly be a lesser-of-two-evils means to navigate otherwise problematic waters, then I'd say we had a discussion going.
 
bld522 said:
So manufacturers should protect themselves from companies like Wal-Mart by forcing consumers to pay more for their products than consumers should have to pay? I'm confused.
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No, they are protecting their own profit margins so they can keep the lights on.

So by keeping more competition in the game as in retailers the prices themselves will level out and everyone comes out ahead in the end.

Instead of the Companies like Walmart squeezing the manufactures out by cutting into their margins and driving them out of business.

Then what happens is less choices and much higher prices for lower quality products.
 
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FriarPhenn said:
You know this? I think you'd be surprised.

But since we're on idealism, educate me. How is the assertion that MAP would necessarily protect the interests of knife-specific retailers, Spyderco, and the consumer all at once not even the least bit idealistic?

If this was a conversation on the nature of a free market economy when government overreach and big-business corruption interfere with it that laid aside presuppositions about the benefit/costs of unrestrained competition, and THEN presented the idea that MAP may possibly be a lesser-of-two-evils means to navigate otherwise problematic waters, then I'd say we had a discussion going.
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That's exactly what I was getting at in an around about way trying not to get into a political discussion. ;)

Nothing is ever really that cut and dry.
 
Ankerson said:
No, they are protecting their own profit margins so they can keep the lights on.
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My understanding is that MAP pricing has no effect on profit margins. Spyderco should be able to keep their lights on with or without it. And I still say that major Internet retailers seem to be able to survive in spite of competition from companies like WalMart and without the benefit of MAP pricing to help prop them up. Have you ever heard a single major Internet retailer say they need MAP pricing to stay in business? I sure haven't.

In case you haven't noticed, wages have been flat or declining for quite some time. How anyone could think that raising prices works to the advantage of consumers is . . . well . . . I'll let you apply the appropriate adjective. ;)
 
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bld522 said:
My understanding is that MAP pricing has no effect on profit margins. Spyderco should be able to keep their lights on with or without it. And I still say that major Internet retailers seem to be able to survive in spite of competition from companies like WalMart and without the benefit of MAP pricing to help prop them up. Have you ever heard one of them say they need MAP pricing to stay in business? I sure haven't.
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I don't think you really understand how the supply chain really works, especially in today's world. ;)

You are still looking at it from the customer point of view and that's understandable, most customers do.

With my own background I do not look at it from that point of view.

That is the difference.
 
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