Spyderco Paysan

[Mo2]

This thread is hilarious.

BTW zt can offer knives at lower costs because they make more money on other knives in the Kai lineup. So they are loosing money on some of the zt knives but make up for it elsewhere.

I'm sure spyderco do something like this as well but it's not always the case. As they mentioned when they made changes to map pricing they were not able to absorb all the costs. I'm betting that maxamet may have suffered some manufacturing issues and had to make up those lost costs. On top of more stuff we don't know about. I'm just making an example but not saying this is the exact reasoning.

Also customs are expensive because your paying the maker labor, high end materials etc.

In any case I'm guessing you'all just want an explanation to the cost since it's not inline with other knives in the market now.

 

[sharp_edge]

This thread is hilarious.

BTW zt can offer knives at lower costs because they make more money on other knives in the Kai lineup. So they are loosing money on some of the zt knives but make up for it elsewhere.

I'm sure spyderco do something like this as well but it's not always the case. As they mentioned when they made changes to map pricing they were not able to absorb all the costs. I'm betting that maxamet may have suffered some manufacturing issues and had to make up those lost costs. On top of more stuff we don't know about. I'm just making an example but not saying this is the exact reasoning.

Also customs are expensive because your paying the maker labor, high end materials etc.

In any case I'm guessing you'all just want an explanation to the cost since it's not inline with other knives in the market now.

Huh? Which models of ZT does KAI lose money on?

 

[RipD]

You seem to be failing to take into account that customs have intangible qualities that allow them to command those prices. A mass-produced production model, by simple definition, simply doesn't. Insinuating that others have some illogical bias, while overlooking the very reasons for that viewpoint is...well, politely uninformed.

It's uninformed for me to not assume that there's a magical, intangible, additional value imbued to every custom, regardless of quality? It's not uninformed to think the opposite? I have no issue with people preferring customs and placing a higher value on them. *I* just don't value them more highly for it. It's an opinion and a preference, not an argument for correctness.

My point was (and is), the value of a knife is based on many factors. For me a mediocre custom is still mediocre knife. I don't understand why people think a manufactured knife or a particular brand should have a price ceiling. I have no doubt there are cheaper custom knives than this Spyderco. And?

The value of a given knife is the value it has to each of us. I'm just saying that brand and the process that was used to build it are less relevant to me than the quality of the actual tool. I'd pay $500 for a CRKT if they made one I felt was worth the money.

How can $500 be considered "too much" for any knife before before people have even put their hands on it?

 

[Mo2]

Huh? Which models of ZT does KAI lose money on?

i think you misunderstand what im saying or i havent explained it well enough. check out this podcast with Thomas W. of Kai usa from 2013.
http://www.geargeekslive.com/episode-23-a-kershaw-christmas

-At around 30min in, he talks about 3D milling. in the case of the "drunken" its 3D milling with a pastern. i couldn't imagine how long it takes to run one of those on cnc.
-At around 37min in he talks about maxamet on the 888
-At around 44mins they talk about the money.
-At around 52min they talk about the halo knife
-At around 1h32m talk about the cost of doing business
-At about 1h45m zt is not a specialty mnfg like spyderco or Benchmade zt. They are a volume mnfg that's larger than both.

If it's not in this podcast it's in another interview I can't remember, maybe a Modern Neanderthal podcast episode.

 

[b00n]

Huh? Which models of ZT does KAI lose money on?

I could imagine that some of the high end limited editions weren't particularly profitable compared to banging out Leeks and Launches. Probably not a financial loss, but probably considerably smaller margins.

 

[Quiet]

It's uninformed for me to not assume that there's a magical, intangible, additional value imbued to every custom, regardless of quality? It's not uninformed to think the opposite? I have no issue with people preferring customs and placing a higher value on them. *I* just don't value them more highly for it. It's an opinion and a preference, not an argument for correctness.

My point was (and is), the value of a knife is based on many factors. For me a mediocre custom is still mediocre knife. I don't understand why people think a manufactured knife or a particular brand should have a price ceiling. I have no doubt there are cheaper custom knives than this Spyderco. And?

The value of a given knife is the value it has to each of us. I'm just saying that brand and the process that was used to build it are less relevant to me than the quality of the actual tool. I'd pay $500 for a CRKT if they made one I felt was worth the money.

How can $500 be considered "too much" for any knife before before people have even put their hands on it?

Your last question shows that I was correct. It's actually very easy to consider $500 to be too much for a knife before folks put their hands on it. If you'd pay $500 for a CRKT, first of all LMAO, secondly, LMAO.

 

[RipD]

Your last question shows that I was correct. It's actually very easy to consider $500 to be too much for a knife before folks put their hands on it. If you'd pay $500 for a CRKT, first of all LMAO, secondly, LMAO.

Np. We can agree to disagree. If CRKT made a knife that was worth $500 to me, I'd pay for it. It would of course have to be a great knife with great materials and have other attributes I like. I don't believe this would ever happen, but I'd certainly give it a fair chance if they did so. You're entitled to have a brand and custom vs. manufactured preferences.

 

[b00n]

Your last question shows that I was correct. It's actually very easy to consider $500 to be too much for a knife before folks put their hands on it. If you'd pay $500 for a CRKT, first of all LMAO, secondly, LMAO.

I think the problem with CRKT is, nobody is gonna believe at this point that they CAN actually make something worth 500$ or even close to that. It's in part about reputation, at least to me. If they upped their game, went for the ZT Market, even if they were to partner with WE and let WE make some of their designs in WE Quality, I'd buy them at 200-300, since CRKT has some really cool designs, just their materials and F&F are usually in the "meh to okay" range at best.
If they had a High End line made with WE/ZT Quality in the ~250$ range I'd give them a shot, and they could built up from there, if they came out with a 500$ knife that appears to be all it's made out to be, I'd buy that too. But as it stands if they suddenly released a 500$ Integral it'd be an easy pass. Their knives aren't bad, they're just not really good either, be it F&F or Materials or both. At least that's what it feels like.

 

[Fred Sanford]

...snip

How can $500 be considered "too much" for any knife before before people have even put their hands on it?

I certainly do not need to hold a knife to figure out if it is worth $500 to me. Here's why: I will not pay more than $250 for any knife. Most of the time my upper limit is about $150 give or take. I have held and used $350 - $550 knives in the past and I have figured out that beyond about $250 I see nothing of value added (for me), so I don't buy. The whole diminishing returns thing.

 

[Comeuppance]

Spyderco offers enough knives with excellent materials and craftsmanship in an affordable price range that I just cannot muster enough care to have a strong opinion on the price of this knife. Is it more than I would pay? Yeah, and it won’t be the first incredibly expensive knife they’ve cranked out either. The Nirvana, the Blue Stepped Ti Chapparal, etc were all outliers in the catalog, so it’s not as if Spyderco is breaking new ground by releasing a very expensive knife. I’d still probably choose any of those over a comparatively-priced gold-class Benchmade anyway, were I comfortable shopping in that price tier.

Besides, it’s not like people weren’t dropping $500+ on Hinderers a few yesrs ago, and used Striders are currently fetching similar prices... and those are production knives with a notably shakier QC track record than Spyderco’s Taichung facility.

 

[RipD]

I think the problem with CRKT is, nobody is gonna believe at this point that they CAN actually make something worth 500$ or even close to that. It's in part about reputation, at least to me. If they upped their game, went for the ZT Market, even if they were to partner with WE and let WE make some of their designs in WE Quality, I'd buy them at 200-300, since CRKT has some really cool designs, just their materials and F&F are usually in the "meh to okay" range at best.

Of course. Assumed that was implied in my post. Of course none of us would ever expect them to do this. My point was if they did I would judge the knife on it's merits, not based it coming from CRKT. Hypotheticals are maybe not the best way for me to make a point here. The seem to get taken literally.

 

[Mrgauth]

I want the knife simply because I like it. Period. Probably won’t keep it as few of my knives stick around long nowadays. Heck, had dozens a few months ago and only got 6 or 7 left in whole collection. Lately, Knives are struggling to connect with me, so, off they go. Nonetheless, gonna give this one a go.

 

[b00n]

Of course. Assumed that was implied in my post. Of course none of us would ever expect them to do this. My point was if they did I would judge the knife on it's merits, not based it coming from CRKT. Hypotheticals are maybe not the best way for me to make a point here. The seem to get taken literally.

I was basically agreeing with you and just elaborating a bit more on it

 

[palonej]

I bought a Nirvana at original retail and carry it often, but I had to double-take at the Paysan price point. IMHO the Nirvana is a great blade but is pushing it price-wise.

That said, I have the strange ability to justify some questionable prices, so...

I have that same ability!! My pool cue?? $4000. Air rifles and scopes???? Minimum $1500 each.
If the item speaks to you and you can still pay your bills?? Go for it!
Also, with Spydie’s past history, are we thinking they’re making a killing at that price?? I think not.

 

[kniferelatedname]

I certainly do not need to hold a knife to figure out if it is worth $500 to me. Here's why: I will not pay more than $250 for any knife. Most of the time my upper limit is about $150 give or take. I have held and used $350 - $550 knives in the past and I have figured out that beyond about $250 I see nothing of value added (for me), so I don't buy. The whole diminishing returns thing.

I feel the same way in that (to paraphrase Bob Loveless), I wouldn't buy a $500 knife even if Jesus Christ made it. However, I don't feel that knives that are $500 must not be worth the money. They simply aren't worth my money. I'm not every single knife's target buyer, and don't feel the need to enter every discussion about a $250+ knife to point out how it's not worth it to me. Also plenty of people are saying it's not worth it, not that they simply don't spend that much on knives. I get that Spyderco listens to their customers. But I don't think it means every person who's ever bought a Delica or a PM2 needs to inform them when the company releases a new knife they don't intend to buy.

 

[Fred Sanford]

I feel the same way in that (to paraphrase Bob Loveless), I wouldn't buy a $500 knife even if Jesus Christ made it. However, I don't feel that knives that are $500 must not be worth the money. They simply aren't worth my money. I'm not every single knife's target buyer, and don't feel the need to enter every discussion about a $250+ knife to point out how it's not worth it to me. Also plenty of people are saying it's not worth it, not that they simply don't spend that much on knives. I get that Spyderco listens to their customers. But I don't think it means every person who's ever bought a Delica or a PM2 needs to inform them when the company releases a new knife they don't intend to buy.

Like a lot of knife folks, I’m simply pointing out that there seems to be a lot of knives released lately by production companies with high prices. So high that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Not just Spyderco, but Benchmade as well.

Hey, in the grand scheme of things, it matters not.

 

[GB940Rookie]

I feel the same way in that (to paraphrase Bob Loveless), I wouldn't buy a $500 knife even if Jesus Christ made it. However, I don't feel that knives that are $500 must not be worth the money. They simply aren't worth my money. I'm not every single knife's target buyer, and don't feel the need to enter every discussion about a $250+ knife to point out how it's not worth it to me. Also plenty of people are saying it's not worth it, not that they simply don't spend that much on knives. I get that Spyderco listens to their customers. But I don't think it means every person who's ever bought a Delica or a PM2 needs to inform them when the company releases a new knife they don't intend to buy.

I understand where you’re coming from but this is a place where we discuss knives. Price and value are part of the discussions.

 

[RipD]

Like a lot of knife folks, I’m simply pointing out that there seems to be a lot of knives released lately by production companies with high prices. So high that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Not just Spyderco, but Benchmade as well

Doesn't it depend on the knife? Take the Slysz Bowie for example - based on the fit, finish, and materials, I think it was a bargain. To get a knife of similar quality you would have to spend a lot more money (imo). So expensive and overpriced are not the same thing. fwiw, I don't generally purchase expensive knifes. But I appreciate and understand why some knifes are expensive.

Casio makes $10 watches. That doesn't mean their $1500 watches aren't a good value if you want a $1500 watch.

 

[Danke42]

Like a lot of knife folks, I’m simply pointing out that there seems to be a lot of knives released lately by production companies with high prices. So high that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Not just Spyderco, but Benchmade as well.

Hey, in the grand scheme of things, it matters not.

If those knives sell it makes sense.

 

[kniferelatedname]

I understand where you’re coming from but this is a place where we discuss knives. Price and value are part of the discussions.

If your position is no knife is worth more than $x amount to you, it's not a discussion of value for any knife that costs $x+1. You won't buy it regardless of the value the manufacturer put into the knife. There is nothing for anyone to discuss there.

Certainly price and value are part of discussing knives. But reading page after page of people saying nothing more than "it costs too much", or "I'd buy some cheaper knife" gets pretty tedious. And it overwhelms most of the discussion about any other aspect of the knife.