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Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by RamZar, Nov 28, 2017.
Wow. So Spyderco was on the verge of bankruptcy prior to instituting MAP a year ago.
What a joke.
It's all of them. They all want/need it.
Except Amazon. Mystery solved. You're welcome.
There's definitely a joke in here somewhere...
There was a budget hole?
The the dealers are the senators and the president is Spyderco they both sing the law .
We do have lots of option when it come to where and what to buy or vote for in this case .
The increase seems minimal. I'm not bothered by it in the least. Spydercos are still a fantastic deal overall and I'll keep buying them up left and right. I'm happy to pay for quality. It's not like the prices are doubling.
There are other knife companies that I feel REALLY overcharge for their knives. Makes me laugh.
So they all pushed for a minumum price to be higher so they could all make more per sale without having competition. Do you not see how that could be perceived as price fixing? That is the issue. I love Spyderco, still do even with this, but to act like everything is above board here is not right.
One thing that I think is important to keep in mind when discussing MAP is that in situations like this we are much more end users than customers. Spyderco's direct customers are dealers.
They pushed for minimum pricing so that they would have a chance at being able to compete with online mega retailers.
Do you see how this could be perceived as understandable?
They already had a MAP policy. Now they want a higher MAP. Next year they will want even more guaranteed margin. What is the end goal? 25% MAP?
Bingo. The vacuum chamber of long time enthusiasts like those who post on website forums does not even figure into their concerns.
I guess we'll have to make more money.
If things seem too heavy to you, grow stronger.
If things seem too expensive to you, grow richer.
Or just go with lighter, cheaper things...your choice.
Yes, I do, but I don't believe it is appropriate to force your competition to increase their margins if their margins don't fit your business model. We can disagree on that. No hard feelings here.
Amazon and their ilk may likely have an antitrust issue very soon.
Actually, Knife companies could refuse to let them carry their brands so there are other solutions but apparently no one wants to institute them.
This discussion did cause me to read a little bit on this issue across various industries. It’s not as simple as Amazon or margins or competition individually. It’s all of these issues. After thinking through this a good bit I believe that’s it’s a political/legal issuethat needs to be resolved in the courts and congress.
BTW, after a little research, I think price fixing only applies to limiting competition across a type of good, not a particular brand.
If benchmade map makes more dealers profit, less spydercos get sold or carried in the majority of stores. When I goto bass pro for Example, they carry several benchmade models and only a few spyderco models. The sales man is more likely to push the benchmades because of profits.
Map increases will help retailers put out and sell more spyderco products because they are making a profit in comparison to the higher map of the other brands.
Benchmade should perhaps lower map because of there poor qc, but because of map they are offered at many more retailers due to profits.
This all coupled with Amazon and Walmart not able to pull out all the stops to sell below map and put everyone out of business on small margins (cause they can).
So consumers don't particularly like map but it's necessary in the market we live in our current culture for businesses.
If less big stores carry a brand because of profit margins (cause selling more of one brand at lower prices in more quantity is less profitable than selling one knife brand at higher profit).
So anyway when I see the dealer prices of the benchmade anthem is around $250 and they go for anywhere between 325-400 that's some major profits. To bad the qc on those models is as poor. The benchmade price is crazy for the quality you get but it's only really a 250 product with the rest going to dealers. I think benchmade should bring map prices down because of this. But every dealer is happy to push them because of the margin.
Anyways I'm sure it's deeper than all this too. None of us can fix this.
With all this said I'll still buy spydercos over any benchmade. But I'll have to buy less with the increasing map because I have to save $. But the thing is, I don't think retail chains and or map takes into consideration people like knife nuts who want to buy multiple models. It focuses on one new person buying a knife and then another one and another person and so on.
Can a vendor or two chime in on there perspective weather they sell spyderco knives or not. Just as long as they have some perspective on this. Any one work(ed) at big box stores chime in? I'd love to hear more. Not trying to cause any castration or problems. But I do recall another thread where this was discussed in detail for something along these lines.
An article from the initial implementation:
Spyderco MAP Prices: What Do Knife Dealers Think?
"Yesterday, Spyderco announced that it will start drawing the line on prices by enforcing Minimum Advertised Pricing (MAP) with retailers of its products. The measure would require retailers to sell Spyderco products for no less than 40% off its Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). The new policy takes effect starting in 2016.
The move is controversial and the reaction from Spyderco’s customers on the forums, and in social media has turned into a contentious debate between those who believe the new policy is a good thing for the knife community and others who don’t want to see any changes. But what do the people who must adhere to Spyderco’s new policy think?"
interesting read on the subject. thanks for linking/posting.
The link is interesting but frankly all of the Knife reviews I read or watch come from independent sources so that actually has no value for me. The only thing dealers provide that I value is return policies and fast shipping.
Over the past two years since MAP was implemented I have regularly seen Amazon sell below MAP. I have seen prices below MAP on Walmart.com as well. I understand what you are saying but that is just how it is supposed to be working in theory. In practice it looks like MAP is giving Amazon more room to undercut the dealers. The rules only hurt the ones who follow them unless the big guys play by the rules too.
when ya add sales tax in, it often isnt below map at walmart. many online delaers dont charge or collect sales tax unless you are in the same state. i dont buy knives at amazon, so i dont know.