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Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by RamZar, Nov 28, 2017.
Very well said. Thank you.
Some people have needs alright.
Haha Sorry I hit a nerve. Its almost like I disrespected you directly, when you're just a consumer. I am glad you show a blind devotion to a brand that doesn't reflect the same devotion back. Sal isn't your friend and you aren't going to receive some sort of compensation for your act in this thread. Have a good night. And don't forget to fight for net neutrality. Its very important.
I didn't say "everyone" and Please accept my apology if my glib statement offended you.
I would also like to see salaries go up. I think that sucks. At Spyderco we try to take care of our crew as best is possible and that's why we have some crew at more than 30 years, a bunch at more than 20 years and more good crew being added. We give raises and bonuses every year. Guess I'll never own that Ferrari, but we've got some great crew.
It was not pricing competition our dealers were avoiding, they offer service, they were seeking better margins, both USA and internationally.
I'm not upset. I'm just expressing my true feelings. Sorry you see it as negative. Actually I do care and that's why I'm here posting at 9:30 mtn time on Friday night. We will be sorry to lose you though.
To those of you that have been positive, I humbly thank you for your kind undertanding and patience.
Well, thanks for apologizing, at least.
I don’t understand how MAP is supposed to help anyone.
Now that dealers can’t discount the knives below 35% there will be no point in shopping around, therefore I doubt I will buy from any dealer I don’t know.
I guess that keeps the competition away and any new start ups will have no chance.
It may be just me but the whole MAP thing seems to be pretty UnAmerican.
I thought America was supposed to be all about competition.
I guess everyone should get a first place ribbon too.
I agree that the GB2 is the best value in the entire industry going right now . I'm sure Spyderco takes many factors into consideration when coming to a decision in reference to pricing policies including employee salaries, dealers as well as customers alike.When I was facing two different cancer diagnosis's at the beginning of this year, Sal Glesser gave me some wisdom and words of encourage to fight on . He is truly a person I look up to! After six months in a Calif V.A. Hospital the first thing I did when I got home and settled again was buy the GB2 and the quality of this knife is outstanding!!!
MAP is minimum ADVERTISED price. Competition still exists. There are many ways to compete other than just the lowest price. Quality, service, attention, personality, presentation, extra value, etc. Do you really think that only the lowest price is the only way to compete? And still sellers find innovative ways to get around price.
I wouldn't work for free, but I and hundreds (thousands?) of other BF members would kill to move to beautiful Colorado, and work at Spyderco Inc. I am glad that you have been able to retain many of your highly skilled/experienced workers. The quality control has been superb, in my experience. Personally, I am not very interested in knives having 8Cr13MoV blade steel (except Tenacious variations). I make a modest income, and I try to stay under $100 when I make a knife purchase. Most of the new models/sprint models are well over $100, and thanks to MAP, there are no periodic "sales", except on expensive discontinued models. I think the only Spyderco that I have purchased in 2017 is the Zome green Endura. I don't know what the solution is. This is just my 2cents. I cut and pasted my Spyderco collection if you are curious. You can thank Nutnfancy for many (most?) of my purchases.
Ambitious, Caly 3.5 VG-10 G-10, Cara Cara G-10, Centofante 3, Chinese Lum Nishijin,
Delica orange, Dragonfly G-10, Endura G-2, Endura blue, Endura orange,
Endura Zome green, Manix LW translucent blue, Manix LW black, Manix G-10 S30v, Manix XL,
Matriarch 2 FRN VG-10, Military black, Military camo, Native FRN S30v, Native FRN S35v,
Pacific Salt, Paramilitary black, Paramilitary camo, Persian black, G-10, Persistence blue,
Police G-10, Police SS, Resilience, Sage 1, Stretch FRN VG-10, Stretch 2, Tenacious blue, Tenacious brown, Tenacious orange, Tenacious green
I have about 140 Spyderco knives but only 13 of them were purchased after the MAP enforcement of January 1, 2016. So, since then I've averaged about one Spyderco every two months. These were mostly dealer exclusives or sprints. I'll continue down the same path but will probably slow it down further to one new Spyderco knife every 3 months or so. I've passed on a number of regular production models as well as some sprints and exclusives that I would've normally gotten. For instance, I passed on all Para3 models thus far but will be getting the Para3 S90V/CF Sprint and hoping it arrives before year end for that extra discount off MSRP before the new MAP rate kicks in.
I'll be spending about the same or perhaps less annually for fewer knives. That's quite all right.
Every dealer that I currently buy from offers good customer service, free shipping, etc.
I used to buy all my knives from the Cutlery Shoppe because they had the best selection and prices.
Now, I tend to buy from stores that offer a point system so that I can get discounts.
Knivesshipfree offers 10 points for every dollar spent. KSF recently sent me a promo code for $10 off any purchase (excluding any brand I would be interested in buying). Recently I asked them to price match a Benchmade and was told they could not because of MAP. I explained that MAP is minimum ADVERTISED price (like you said) and they replied that their contract with Benchmade prohibits them from selling below MAP.
DLT also has a point system 3 points for every dollar spent.
So, the reward system and what brands the stores sales are the only incentive when it comes to online retailers because every retailer I buy from offers excellent CS and free shipping.
With all that's been said I appreciate the dialogue and your willingness to respond, Sal.
Thanks for what you have done and will continue to do for the knife community.
I think we as buyer, Sal & a dealer (over Spyderco site forum), each has shared their views and feeling on the issue. It’s as transparent as it can be (contract between Spyderco and the dealers are supposedly confidential). I appreciate the civilized discussion and openness.
I hope, like many, to see a better situation and we all contribute in our own way, hopefully for the better.
I suspect there would be a boycott of certain dealers...
yes Sir, i did a poor job of paraphrasing what you typed. i apologize for not being more accurate in my paraphrasing and interpretation of what you meant.
no Sir you didnt offend me. no need for apologies, its just a discussion on a topic. maybe a bit close to home for some fans and some others, but still just a discussion on a topic.
regardless of what happens prices up or down, sideways, etc.....the quality and care is always there and ill keep buying spydercos i feel are worth the cost, like i always have. i still dislike map in general but least y'all are doing it better than most of your competitors.
discussions are only that. thank you for the follow up, appreciated.
First, I’d like to thank you for participating in the thread and being transparent. I have observed some dealers finding ways around MAP and I also appreciate that you really mean MAP and have not fixed the prices. I have bought Spyderco products since 1995 and still have the original Delicas, Navigators and Pro Venators to the Slysz Bowie and Nirvana . I will still buy them.
Like several others have stated, I disagree with the policy on principle but it seems to be the case across the many mid to high end manufacturers like Bose, Dyson, Rolex and Omega. I wish the playing field was leveled and didn’t allow it at all. Frankly, I think several of the huge retailers are oligopolies and violate antitrust guidelines but it’s unlikely anything will be done about that either.
Someone asked for a list of the retailers who asked for the change and while I would like to see it as well, I know it would be unethical for you to provide it. Having worked in family owned/small businesses I understand how tight the margins can be and that opens them up to overwhelming competition from big box stores. I guess there’s no easy solution without new laws and most people won’t support that either.
Having spent a little time thinking about it I think I understand your dilemma. I know you’re doing the best you can with the balancing act. Sorry for the long post and thanks again for answering us.
While that is unlikely, perhaps the dealers who do not like it would speak up? As it stands now, assume that all of the major dealers are for this.
I absolutely want the best possible quality for the lowest price and I care precisely as much about the dealers as they do about me. I'll continue to look for the products that fit into the category I want while offering the best value for my money. I've long felt Spyderco has done an exemplary job of providing that. MAP pricing and increases to MAP hurts that. Period.
Price increases aren't ideal, but they are inevitable. The increases are not huge, and I feel Spyderco represents the most innovation and highest value in the industry overall. As long as they continue to put out good products (they will) I will continue to buy without qualms. If I have to purchase one or two fewer knives per year then so be it. I don't NEED anymore knives; this is just a hobby for fun. I'm sure I could get by with a cheap box cutter most of the time. If I have to pay a bit more for great knives then I am happy to do so.