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Spyderco quality
- Thread starter huugh
- Start date
Some have suggested it to be a good idea to have your dealer check and make sure your items is OK.
I think you should do just that on your future purchases outside of your country.
In saying that, I cannot lay all the blame on the dealer. Knives are inspected at the factory before they leave.
They have a QC department, dealers do not.
Being a sprint run with nicer materials I would expect a little more attention to be paid upon them.
Especially only 1200 pcs. In the general scope of knives, that is a small amount.
I hope you get it sorted out and end up being happy with it.
Huugh,if you just bought your knife.I would strongly suggest that you return your knife and if it's within their 30 day return period as stated in their FAQ.
Otherwise ship it to spyderco to deal with(and $5) but I have to warn you ,I sent back a Native and Sharpmaker under warranty and they shipped it back to me in Canada via First Class International.Unfortunately this has no tracking abilities and therefore is uninsurable.
To me, this is the best sub 3" $100.00 folder you can buy right now.
If you got a lemon, resolve the issue and move on.
Here are mine, is the grind 100% centered? No. Is this the thinest edge I own out of 200+ Microtech, BM & Spyderco folders? Probably.
To you this may be a dud. To me? A masterpiece. Instant classic.
CF, ZDP 189, Super light, Ultra thin edge & smooth as butter.
Dont let this post fool you. This knife is a winner!
Grind photo below. These things can really slice!
If you got a lemon, resolve the issue and move on.
Here are mine, is the grind 100% centered? No. Is this the thinest edge I own out of 200+ Microtech, BM & Spyderco folders? Probably.
To you this may be a dud. To me? A masterpiece. Instant classic.
CF, ZDP 189, Super light, Ultra thin edge & smooth as butter.
Dont let this post fool you. This knife is a winner!
Grind photo below. These things can really slice!
That is a known risk with buying online without using a dealer who will inspect each knife to see if it is like you want it. IMHO it is a small cost compared to buying them here in Europe at 3 times the price and slow release of new models.
Still can't see how you get $60 for shipping a small knife to the US from Europe unless you choose to send it insured and express with UPS or DHL etc
Spyderco CS has been great to me the 2 times I've needed it (1 lacking screw and a stripped clip screw on different knives) They won't decide whether it is a warranty issue without looking at it themselves.
Sverre
Sal's Response on Spyderco.com
Hi Huugh,
Please contact Charlynne and we'll arange to pick up your knife. We will need to know where you purchased the knife, and how much you paid. I will let Charlynne know. (If you purchased the knife in your country through our distributor in you country, you would need only to contact them and they would take care of you).
Frankly Huugh,
I'm surprised tht you would puchase a Spyderco knife. I have been reading your posts for many years. In my mind, I have you classified a certain way. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, you have my apolgy.
Do you think that the design is a quality design? We even refined the design to improve some areas (more tooling). Michael Walker is an experienced designer and we've had success with his designs. Perhaps design is not in your mind as "quality"?
We "dared" to make a ZDP-189 knife with Carbon fiber scales. Not too many out there doing that. And we do it so that we can share this with a small group of customers that appreciate our effort. We even make small quantities.....at an affordable price for the piece. We bring back these models for you. Would you measure the ZDP and Carbon fiber as "quality" materials?
Would you measure a small run of "exotic" folders as a "quality" effort on our part?
(Perhaps MarkG is correct in that "Sprints" are not worth the effort?)
You bought your knife and it wasn't perfect. That's probably true. There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience. And you found an imperfection! Suddenly it is not a "quality" knife and Spyderco has poor "quality" and poor customer service.....and this is your proof that a competitor is better? So why all the drama? Send the knife back where you bought it and get your money back, and buy the competitor's knife.
Although we always try, we know we can't please everyone.
FYI, I have never found a perfect knife. Not ever. Not production, not custom, and I've gone through thousands. I guess the closest was a fairly expensive Jess Horn folder, but I even found that it wasn't perfect.
We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way.
Though, based on your previous comments, I think it will be difficult to please you.....but we'll try.
In my opinion, I think that you would be happier with Custom made ZDP-189 Carbon fiber knives. You will probably have to pay a bit more for them, but then you will get the perfection you desire.
sal
Hi Huugh,
Please contact Charlynne and we'll arange to pick up your knife. We will need to know where you purchased the knife, and how much you paid. I will let Charlynne know. (If you purchased the knife in your country through our distributor in you country, you would need only to contact them and they would take care of you).
Frankly Huugh,
I'm surprised tht you would puchase a Spyderco knife. I have been reading your posts for many years. In my mind, I have you classified a certain way. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, you have my apolgy.
Do you think that the design is a quality design? We even refined the design to improve some areas (more tooling). Michael Walker is an experienced designer and we've had success with his designs. Perhaps design is not in your mind as "quality"?
We "dared" to make a ZDP-189 knife with Carbon fiber scales. Not too many out there doing that. And we do it so that we can share this with a small group of customers that appreciate our effort. We even make small quantities.....at an affordable price for the piece. We bring back these models for you. Would you measure the ZDP and Carbon fiber as "quality" materials?
Would you measure a small run of "exotic" folders as a "quality" effort on our part?
(Perhaps MarkG is correct in that "Sprints" are not worth the effort?)
You bought your knife and it wasn't perfect. That's probably true. There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience. And you found an imperfection! Suddenly it is not a "quality" knife and Spyderco has poor "quality" and poor customer service.....and this is your proof that a competitor is better? So why all the drama? Send the knife back where you bought it and get your money back, and buy the competitor's knife.
Although we always try, we know we can't please everyone.
FYI, I have never found a perfect knife. Not ever. Not production, not custom, and I've gone through thousands. I guess the closest was a fairly expensive Jess Horn folder, but I even found that it wasn't perfect.
We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way.
Though, based on your previous comments, I think it will be difficult to please you.....but we'll try.
In my opinion, I think that you would be happier with Custom made ZDP-189 Carbon fiber knives. You will probably have to pay a bit more for them, but then you will get the perfection you desire.
sal
Still can't see how you get $60 for shipping a small knife to the US from Europe unless you choose to send it insured and express with UPS or DHL etc
Sverre
MCM, NoFair - why the shipping costs seem high? As per original customer service reply considering it within specifications, it was at least probable that sending it to Spyderco would mean only the reassurance that the knife is alright. Therefore, to get a specimen in better shape, I would have to send it back to the dealer for the replacement (which the dealer offered). According to the Czech post calculator, it means approx. 488 CZK (~26 USD) to the USA + knifeworks' shipping fee of 33.95 USD for the way back.
To append to Aj1985's post.
At Spyderco forums thread:
At Spyderco forums thread:
huugh said:
sal said:Hi Huugh,
Please contact Charlynne and we'll arange to pick up your knife. We will need to know where you purchased the knife, and how much you paid. I will let Charlynne know. (If you purchased the knife in your country through our distributor in you country, you would need only to contact them and they would take care of you).
Frankly Huugh,
I'm surprised tht you would puchase a Spyderco knife. I have been reading your posts for many years. In my mind, I have you classified a certain way. Perhaps I am wrong, and if so, you have my apolgy.
Do you think that the design is a quality design? We even refined the design to improve some areas (more tooling). Michael Walker is an experienced designer and we've had success with his designs. Perhaps design is not in your mind as "quality"?
We "dared" to make a ZDP-189 knife with Carbon fiber scales. Not too many out there doing that. And we do it so that we can share this with a small group of customers that appreciate our effort. We even make small quantities.....at an affordable price for the piece. We bring back these models for you. Would you measure the ZDP and Carbon fiber as "quality" materials?
Would you measure a small run of "exotic" folders as a "quality" effort on our part?
(Perhaps MarkG is correct in that "Sprints" are not worth the effort?)
You bought your knife and it wasn't perfect. That's probably true. There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience. And you found an imperfection!Suddenly it is not a "quality" knife and Spyderco has poor "quality" and poor customer service.....and this is your proof that a competitor is better? So why all the drama? Send the knife back where you bought it and get your money back, and buy the competitor's knife.
Although we always try, we know we can't please everyone.
FYI, I have never found a perfect knife. Not ever. Not production, not custom, and I've gone through thousands. I guess the closest was a fairly expensive Jess Horn folder, but I even found that it wasn't perfect.
We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way.
Though, based on your previous comments, I think it will be difficult to please you.....but we'll try.
In my opinion, I think that you would be happier with Custom made ZDP-189 Carbon fiber knives. You will probably have to pay a bit more for them, but then you will get the perfection you desire.
sal
Holy crap.
They not only insult the costumer but also tell him the knife is good quality and even talk down om him because he discusses the issues he has with the knife and CS.
Sp Spyderco does not want people to talk negative about their knife and CS and talk down on people who do? I thought that is what forums are about even if it is the Spyderco forum.
They not only insult the costumer but also tell him the knife is good quality and even talk down om him because he discusses the issues he has with the knife and CS.
Sp Spyderco does not want people to talk negative about their knife and CS and talk down on people who do? I thought that is what forums are about even if it is the Spyderco forum.
brownshoe
I support this site with my MIND
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 9,999
Two lessons I learned from this thread:
"There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience." So the message is to expect poor grinds with sprint runs because the manufacturer is inexperienced. If the poor grind is due to inexperience, then how is the grind in "QC tolerances?"
"We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way." If it was the Spyderco way, then there should be no reason to go to the forums and call for the president of the company to step in to get service. This happens regularly. If it was the spyderco way, then those people who are not "pleased" with their lockbacks that have blade play "within QC tolerance" would have been "pleased" with a refund or replacement.
"There's a lot of hand work in these models and short runs do not permit the craftsmen to gain experience." So the message is to expect poor grinds with sprint runs because the manufacturer is inexperienced. If the poor grind is due to inexperience, then how is the grind in "QC tolerances?"
"We will collect your knife from you and we will try to please you. It is our way." If it was the Spyderco way, then there should be no reason to go to the forums and call for the president of the company to step in to get service. This happens regularly. If it was the spyderco way, then those people who are not "pleased" with their lockbacks that have blade play "within QC tolerance" would have been "pleased" with a refund or replacement.
wolfmann601
Gone, but not forgotton. RIP Ira.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2001
- Messages
- 7,385
Only you can make that interpetation Brownshoe
For the money Spyderco ranks with the very best in Production knives.
Want perfection, collect something other than knives because a collection of perfect knives will be very small...............................
A collection of perfect production knives even smaller.....................................
For the money Spyderco ranks with the very best in Production knives.
Want perfection, collect something other than knives because a collection of perfect knives will be very small...............................
A collection of perfect production knives even smaller.....................................
There are no QC specifications. There are engineering specifications, which became manufacturing specification later in process. QC job is verify that product within specifications.
Any Quality system can fail. In most of the classes I took within last 20 years Toyota's quality system was a model, recently we were able to see failure (IMHO it is blown out of proportion, but still failure). This is just one of examples.
Customer can be not satisfied with product if product defective or do not correspond his or hers expectations. huugh has two complains:grind and lock. Considering what I saw on the pictures I cannot imagine any been defective. Knife will cut and blade will hold in locking position. To tell the truth I never examined my knives for symmetry of the grind before this thread on BF. Now I know, that my EDC, which I was using every day for more than three years has the same condition. It never bothered me before, will not do in future. Lock engagement is little different, potentially it can wear out sooner. Still it is not making this knife defective at least in my opinion. This is gents knife and not supposed see the same use as Manix, with normal use the lock should last for long time. So in this case, it seems to me we have a customer, who's expectations are not met. This raising a question, why huugh still buying Spyderco, I can remember him been not satisfied with imperfections on his Milly about four years ago and few more time between now and then.
Also I would love to know who is Spyderco competitor, who can make the knife with ZDP-189 blade, CF handle in Seki city, sell it for little over $100 and every knife would be perfect or at least satisfy huugh.
Any Quality system can fail. In most of the classes I took within last 20 years Toyota's quality system was a model, recently we were able to see failure (IMHO it is blown out of proportion, but still failure). This is just one of examples.
Customer can be not satisfied with product if product defective or do not correspond his or hers expectations. huugh has two complains:grind and lock. Considering what I saw on the pictures I cannot imagine any been defective. Knife will cut and blade will hold in locking position. To tell the truth I never examined my knives for symmetry of the grind before this thread on BF. Now I know, that my EDC, which I was using every day for more than three years has the same condition. It never bothered me before, will not do in future. Lock engagement is little different, potentially it can wear out sooner. Still it is not making this knife defective at least in my opinion. This is gents knife and not supposed see the same use as Manix, with normal use the lock should last for long time. So in this case, it seems to me we have a customer, who's expectations are not met. This raising a question, why huugh still buying Spyderco, I can remember him been not satisfied with imperfections on his Milly about four years ago and few more time between now and then.
Also I would love to know who is Spyderco competitor, who can make the knife with ZDP-189 blade, CF handle in Seki city, sell it for little over $100 and every knife would be perfect or at least satisfy huugh.
I think Sal always handles these "I got a production knife that ain't perfect and I don't like it" threads with aplomb. I think most of us have learned that if you want a perfect production knife, than you better buy it somewhere you can hold it and look at it before buying. If you buy knives from 4,000 miles away, than it shouldn't surprise you that return shipping is kind of high.
I would assume there is no such thing as a magic machine that can automatically determine if grinds are symetrical or if grinds end within some small tolerance from each other - you have to do it the old fashioned way, by having someone look at it and measure it. Tightening tolerances and adding QC checks to guarantee "perfect" knives would likely double the price, not improve how well they actually cut something, and I'm thankful that is not the case.
I would assume there is no such thing as a magic machine that can automatically determine if grinds are symetrical or if grinds end within some small tolerance from each other - you have to do it the old fashioned way, by having someone look at it and measure it. Tightening tolerances and adding QC checks to guarantee "perfect" knives would likely double the price, not improve how well they actually cut something, and I'm thankful that is not the case.
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2008
- Messages
- 3,654
I just checked 8 of my knives to see if any of them exhibited any of the problems OP had with his Spyderco. A Benchmade, a Victorinox, a Spyderco, and five Kershaws.
Not one had any kind of off-center, misshapen, or otherwise poorly executed edge geometry or blade grind. None had any kind of fault, in terms of lockup or blade grinds, or problem that I could detect with the naked eye, and certainly nothing in the nature of OP's difficulties. All of them except the Benchmade cost a fraction of OP's knife (after the Benchmade, the most expensive of which cost about 50$ CAD), while the Benchmade's MSRP is a around 5 bucks higher than the OP's spyderco.
Judging by my knives, it doesn't seem to be that difficult for a production company to turn out knives with well-executed grinds, regardless of the price or make. The 20$ Alox Pioneer had a fantastic grind, as did the 27$ Skyline, as did the 50$ Endura, as did the 190$ Presidio.
All talk of spyderco's Customer Service aside, I see absolutely no reason why, if all of these companies (and indeed, Spyderco itself) are perfectly able to produce well-ground knives, customers should tolerate poor manufacturing.
Basically, I look at it this way: If all of my knives (Spydercos included - I had absolutely no QC problems with my Endura or Tenacious) came with satisfactory manufacturing standards and, one day, I got a knife like OP's that has a number of noticeable flaws, why should I accept that? Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade, and Victorinox can all do better than the lopsided grinds on OP's knife, so why should I settle for less from a good manufacturer?
Man, Sal's response reads like someone who's ambitiously trying to drive customers away...
"Poor QC? Poor CS? You should feel lucky to have purchased one of our exclusive, exotic, limited-run knives! We went through all the effort to make a ZDP knife with CF scales, and you dare turn your nose up? If you don't like it, take a hike!"
All of instead of admitting, "Hey, gee, that knife IS a bit lop-sided. That's normally within our QC standards, but if you're really pissed about it we'll help you out".
Not one had any kind of off-center, misshapen, or otherwise poorly executed edge geometry or blade grind. None had any kind of fault, in terms of lockup or blade grinds, or problem that I could detect with the naked eye, and certainly nothing in the nature of OP's difficulties. All of them except the Benchmade cost a fraction of OP's knife (after the Benchmade, the most expensive of which cost about 50$ CAD), while the Benchmade's MSRP is a around 5 bucks higher than the OP's spyderco.
Judging by my knives, it doesn't seem to be that difficult for a production company to turn out knives with well-executed grinds, regardless of the price or make. The 20$ Alox Pioneer had a fantastic grind, as did the 27$ Skyline, as did the 50$ Endura, as did the 190$ Presidio.
All talk of spyderco's Customer Service aside, I see absolutely no reason why, if all of these companies (and indeed, Spyderco itself) are perfectly able to produce well-ground knives, customers should tolerate poor manufacturing.
Basically, I look at it this way: If all of my knives (Spydercos included - I had absolutely no QC problems with my Endura or Tenacious) came with satisfactory manufacturing standards and, one day, I got a knife like OP's that has a number of noticeable flaws, why should I accept that? Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade, and Victorinox can all do better than the lopsided grinds on OP's knife, so why should I settle for less from a good manufacturer?
Man, Sal's response reads like someone who's ambitiously trying to drive customers away...
"Poor QC? Poor CS? You should feel lucky to have purchased one of our exclusive, exotic, limited-run knives! We went through all the effort to make a ZDP knife with CF scales, and you dare turn your nose up? If you don't like it, take a hike!"
All of instead of admitting, "Hey, gee, that knife IS a bit lop-sided. That's normally within our QC standards, but if you're really pissed about it we'll help you out".
:thumbup:
:thumbup: I agree that is not the usual spyderco response from Sal.Sure noticed him getting real irritated and angry lately.I also don't buy the excuse that because it's a limited production item craftmen can not do them right.Aren't they skilled craftmen to begin with.
:thumbup: I agree that is not the usual spyderco response from Sal.Sure noticed him getting real irritated and angry lately.I also don't buy the excuse that because it's a limited production item craftmen can not do them right.Aren't they skilled craftmen to begin with.
dericdesmond
Gold Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 15,534
anyone who ever reads this users comments and takes it with a single grain of salt, always remember!!!!! Please, for the sake of YOUR OWN SAFETY and those around you ''think twice, cut once'' c.r.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2006
- Messages
- 20,593
I just ordered a Benchmade 741. If it's defective in my eyes upon opening it, I am covered by the dealer's return policy. It's always easier IMO, to return a new knife to the seller right away and let them make it right. Most are glad to accommodate you and you can order from many places with a return policy. I realize this Spyderco in question was purchased by a overseas party, but If it had been me I would have went ahead and sent it back right away where purchased, for exchange or refund.(if it's not too far to buy it, then it's not too far to return it) It just seems easier to buy from a dealer with a great return policy and use it on brand new items.
This is what the dealer states where I ordered my 741 and you better believe if I deem it defective I will use it and not Benchmade.
"If your merchandise is defective, it will be replaced during the first 30 days after invoice date on unused items ONLY. After that time period, we ask that you contact the manufacturer directly for any defects covered by their warranty. If you decide to send you knife back to us on a defected item for a refund or replacement, you will be responsible for the shipping charges back to us and we will ship it back to you for free of charge."
This is what the dealer states where I ordered my 741 and you better believe if I deem it defective I will use it and not Benchmade.
"If your merchandise is defective, it will be replaced during the first 30 days after invoice date on unused items ONLY. After that time period, we ask that you contact the manufacturer directly for any defects covered by their warranty. If you decide to send you knife back to us on a defected item for a refund or replacement, you will be responsible for the shipping charges back to us and we will ship it back to you for free of charge."