Spyderco Resilience

AF said:
My Persistence almost makes me sad because I don't think it's any worse than my higher priced folders.
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lol, I was carrying my Persistence today, and was thinking the same thing. :p
 
From an economic standpoint, buying Chinese-made products isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I am an economics major, and a conservative who considers himself neither a Democrat nor a Republican, but typically thinks Republican and Libertarian in policy. The fact of the matter is, some individuals can only afford knives priced at that price level. To produce knives at a price point that is that cheap, you can obviously not spend a significant amount in raw materials, or in labor. It stands to reason that to produce a Spyderco for $40, you will not use S30V and you will not employ an American worker for $18 an hour.

Not employing this American worker, but instead employing a Chinese worker for a tenth of that salary, seems to be a terrifying proposition in the short run - and it is. Countless economic reports from across the world project, however, that as China's economic system moves ever-closer to capitalism, their standard of living will increase. They will demand higher wages. The cost of producing in China will increase, meaning that there will be no incentive for American companies to outsource their labor. Development in other countries is good for the United States. Some say that they will outsource labor to other markets, but as the world develops together, that global interdependence will move jobs back to America.

And, think of the jobs that these lower-cost knives are creating here. Demand for a product increases as price decreases, until profit is maximized. Because dealers are selling more, the dealers can afford to hire, Spyderco needs to hire AMERICAN people to deal with the heightened demand for customer service, information, marketing, advertising, etc. Wholesalers and distributors need to hire more people to help with this increased demand.

While in the short run, American jobs are being outsourced, the global interdependence of market economies will increase demand for labor here. And as China's standard of living increases, it will make less sense to send jobs overseas. The transport costs alone narrow the gap in costs to 5% for some products, according to some economists for Forbes.

Some people say that you walk into Wal Mart and practically everything in there is made in China. This might be the case. China is typically a market where jobs with LOW SKILL LEVELS are sent, and the demand for this production at that wage is not great in America. When was the last time that you saw a Boeing 747 being produced in China? A John Deere tractor? There are countless jobs that require high skill levels in the United States that no other country can replicate or have outsourced. In fact, the UNITED STATES HAS TO IMPORT LABOR. The American labor market does not have enough properly trained people to supply the demand for, for example, computer engineers or doctors. This is why you see foreign doctors and computer specialists so often. If the American people adapted to the labor market, there would be less structural unemployment (unemployment caused by not having the qualifications for the job).

I will continue buying American - I do not want to see the American economy lose manufacturing jobs. But buying Chinese isn't nearly as bad as people think. China isn't evil; they are developing on a parallel track similar to that of industrial America in the early 20th century. However, they are overpopulated, socialist, and have paved over a great deal of their farm land - we are in a much more advantageous position in the long run, despite our debt and our cost of labor.

Yes, I realize I just wrote a book. You might argue with the concepts. But I feel that Mr. Glesser is doing nothing wrong with producing a product in China. He has always been an honest and upright business man and I support his ventures fully.

God bless you, and God bless America.

KATN,

Wade
 
steelscout30 said:
From an economic standpoint, buying Chinese-made products isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I am an economics major, and a conservative who considers himself neither a Democrat nor a Republican, but typically thinks Republican and Libertarian in policy. The fact of the matter is, some individuals can only afford knives priced at that price level. To produce knives at a price point that is that cheap, you can obviously not spend a significant amount in raw materials, or in labor. It stands to reason that to produce a Spyderco for $40, you will not use S30V and you will not employ an American worker for $18 an hour.

Not employing this American worker, but instead employing a Chinese worker for a tenth of that salary, seems to be a terrifying proposition in the short run - and it is. Countless economic reports from across the world project, however, that as China's economic system moves ever-closer to capitalism, their standard of living will increase. They will demand higher wages. The cost of producing in China will increase, meaning that there will be no incentive for American companies to outsource their labor. Development in other countries is good for the United States. Some say that they will outsource labor to other markets, but as the world develops together, that global interdependence will move jobs back to America.

And, think of the jobs that these lower-cost knives are creating here. Demand for a product increases as price decreases, until profit is maximized. Because dealers are selling more, the dealers can afford to hire, Spyderco needs to hire AMERICAN people to deal with the heightened demand for customer service, information, marketing, advertising, etc. Wholesalers and distributors need to hire more people to help with this increased demand.

While in the short run, American jobs are being outsourced, the global interdependence of market economies will increase demand for labor here. And as China's standard of living increases, it will make less sense to send jobs overseas. The transport costs alone narrow the gap in costs to 5% for some products, according to some economists for Forbes.

Some people say that you walk into Wal Mart and practically everything in there is made in China. This might be the case. China is typically a market where jobs with LOW SKILL LEVELS are sent, and the demand for this production at that wage is not great in America. When was the last time that you saw a Boeing 747 being produced in China? A John Deere tractor? There are countless jobs that require high skill levels in the United States that no other country can replicate or have outsourced. In fact, the UNITED STATES HAS TO IMPORT LABOR. The American labor market does not have enough properly trained people to supply the demand for, for example, computer engineers or doctors. This is why you see foreign doctors and computer specialists so often. If the American people adapted to the labor market, there would be less structural unemployment (unemployment caused by not having the qualifications for the job).

I will continue buying American - I do not want to see the American economy lose manufacturing jobs. But buying Chinese isn't nearly as bad as people think. China isn't evil; they are developing on a parallel track similar to that of industrial America in the early 20th century. However, they are overpopulated, socialist, and have paved over a great deal of their farm land - we are in a much more advantageous position in the long run, despite our debt and our cost of labor.

Yes, I realize I just wrote a book. You might argue with the concepts. But I feel that Mr. Glesser is doing nothing wrong with producing a product in China. He has always been an honest and upright business man and I support his ventures fully.

God bless you, and God bless America.

KATN,

Wade
Click to expand...

Nice to see an intelligent, well written, and thought provoking 'Chinese made' comment. Kudos, my friend.

Oh yeah, and I will be buying a Resilience.:thumbup:
 
I have one on order, My Corner Store says delivery within 20 days. The price sure beats the Police I was saving for and the blade size is close.
 
J.Davey said:
Nice to see an intelligent, well written, and thought provoking 'Chinese made' comment. Kudos, my friend.

Oh yeah, and I will be buying a Resilience.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

+1:thumbup:

Thought Provoking indeed...very well written, sir:thumbup:
 
Personally, it makes me sick to see "China", or , "Taiwan" on a knife I carry. I don't really care how "you" choose to explain it to me. There are too many other options made in my country to buy any knives from anywhere else.
 
That is fair. There are very few knives in my collection that aren't made in the United States.

I was only trying to explain that Chinese production doesn't have an entirely negative effect. If you can afford to buy the higher-priced American products, please do so - that is what's best. I was merely making the point that some people can't afford them, or are new to the genre of knives, and a lower price point is sometimes necessary, a price point the demand for wages can't support in the US.

I'm not saying go out, ignore American product, and buy strictly Chinese. I'm saying sometimes the foreign alternatives do make sense, and are beneficial - just not in every case. They make good business sense for different consumer profiles, especially ones with lower incomes than yours where the cost of American knives is prohibitive.

With the taxes from the multi-level sale of Chinese products, we could actually pay down our debt to them with their own labor. Another interesting point.

Take care and God bless.

KATN,

Wade
 
I guess that if all people could afford the higher priced, US made knives, all of us would be carrying them and there would be no need for lower priced production knives. Unfortunately, we all don't work in the US in a cozy job. So those of us who need cutting tools but can't afford sebenzas, striders, etc. luckily have the choice of getting inexpensive quality knives.
 
I need one to complete my trifecta. Love the Tenacious and Persistence, carry them a lot, despite having plenty of other knives, almost all of which were more expensive, few if any are a better value. China bothers me only if it breaks like it was made there, or will give me lead poisoning from licking it, neither of which apply here. Don't judge a book by its cover, nor its publisher, I think.
 
steelscout30 said:
From an economic standpoint, buying Chinese-made products isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I am an economics major, and a conservative who considers himself neither a Democrat nor a Republican, but typically thinks Republican and Libertarian in policy. The fact of the matter is, some individuals can only afford knives priced at that price level. To produce knives at a price point that is that cheap, you can obviously not spend a significant amount in raw materials, or in labor. It stands to reason that to produce a Spyderco for $40, you will not use S30V and you will not employ an American worker for $18 an hour.

Not employing this American worker, but instead employing a Chinese worker for a tenth of that salary, seems to be a terrifying proposition in the short run - and it is. Countless economic reports from across the world project, however, that as China's economic system moves ever-closer to capitalism, their standard of living will increase. They will demand higher wages. The cost of producing in China will increase, meaning that there will be no incentive for American companies to outsource their labor. Development in other countries is good for the United States. Some say that they will outsource labor to other markets, but as the world develops together, that global interdependence will move jobs back to America.

And, think of the jobs that these lower-cost knives are creating here. Demand for a product increases as price decreases, until profit is maximized. Because dealers are selling more, the dealers can afford to hire, Spyderco needs to hire AMERICAN people to deal with the heightened demand for customer service, information, marketing, advertising, etc. Wholesalers and distributors need to hire more people to help with this increased demand.

While in the short run, American jobs are being outsourced, the global interdependence of market economies will increase demand for labor here. And as China's standard of living increases, it will make less sense to send jobs overseas. The transport costs alone narrow the gap in costs to 5% for some products, according to some economists for Forbes.

Some people say that you walk into Wal Mart and practically everything in there is made in China. This might be the case. China is typically a market where jobs with LOW SKILL LEVELS are sent, and the demand for this production at that wage is not great in America. When was the last time that you saw a Boeing 747 being produced in China? A John Deere tractor? There are countless jobs that require high skill levels in the United States that no other country can replicate or have outsourced. In fact, the UNITED STATES HAS TO IMPORT LABOR. The American labor market does not have enough properly trained people to supply the demand for, for example, computer engineers or doctors. This is why you see foreign doctors and computer specialists so often. If the American people adapted to the labor market, there would be less structural unemployment (unemployment caused by not having the qualifications for the job).

I will continue buying American - I do not want to see the American economy lose manufacturing jobs. But buying Chinese isn't nearly as bad as people think. China isn't evil; they are developing on a parallel track similar to that of industrial America in the early 20th century. However, they are overpopulated, socialist, and have paved over a great deal of their farm land - we are in a much more advantageous position in the long run, despite our debt and our cost of labor.

Yes, I realize I just wrote a book. You might argue with the concepts. But I feel that Mr. Glesser is doing nothing wrong with producing a product in China. He has always been an honest and upright business man and I support his ventures fully.

God bless you, and God bless America.

KATN,

Wade
Click to expand...

Well stated.

It's posters like you that make me stay at Bladeforums, I wish I could be that articulate. :thumbup:

Unfortunately as my family says, "You really are a god damn caveman." :D
 
I watched the full hour of this last night. Today will be the 2nd part and wrapping up on Friday. It's about the devaluation of our currency & very interesting and it's not about buying some Chinese made merchandise like the Resilience. How's the detent on that big blade - you guys who own one?

Plz overlook the plug for his book, the program was excellent and I'll be watching again today. Click here it's only a couple of minutes long.
 
steelscout30 said:
Countless economic reports from across the world project, however, that as China's economic system moves ever-closer to capitalism, their standard of living will increase. They will demand higher wages.
Click to expand...

The problem here is that the Chinese government is notorious for human rights violations. When the answer to "demanding higher wages" is to be shipped off to a forced labor camp, or end up in an unmarked grave somewhere, how many workers will join the cause?

steelscout30 said:
In fact, the UNITED STATES HAS TO IMPORT LABOR. The American labor market does not have enough properly trained people to supply the demand for, for example, computer engineers or doctors. This is why you see foreign doctors and computer specialists so often. If the American people adapted to the labor market, there would be less structural unemployment (unemployment caused by not having the qualifications for the job).
Click to expand...

Saying this as politely as possible, I think you'll find out that the real world doesn't reflect what you're hearing in the classroom. The fact is, there isn't a shortage of well qualified American employees. Companies have done & still do create an artificial "shortage" in order to import foreign labor at a lower cost than American labor.
 
Hombre Secreto said:
The problem here is that the Chinese government is notorious for human rights violations. When the answer to "demanding higher wages" is to be shipped off to a forced labor camp, or end up in an unmarked grave somewhere, how many workers will join the cause?



Saying this as politely as possible, I think you'll find out that the real world doesn't reflect what you're hearing in the classroom. The fact is, there isn't a shortage of well qualified American employees. Companies have done & still do create an artificial "shortage" in order to import foreign labor at a lower cost than American labor.
Click to expand...

The fact of the matter is that China is moving towards a mixed economy, in which components of the free market system are readily apparent. While the factories are regulated by the government (like in the United States), they are not all government run. It stands to reason that the government shouldn't care what the demanded wage is at these factories. At these facilities, if the wages increase, the Chinese government will only serve to benefit by increasing the taxes on the corporations and employees that are making more money.

China is a nation that has been wrought with human rights violations. But in the modern world, transparency is increasing. The world is watching. Whether the people of the world can or will do something about it is another matter.

It would be easy to cast me as a young, naive college student. The fact of the matter is, I live in the real world. I've been a custodian, I've worked on farms, I've shoveled 325-degree asphalt on 98-degree summer days and I know that things in the real world might not exactly reflect what is taught in the class room. I know that $#!^ happens in the real world. But the people that came up with the majority of those theories lived in the real world too, and were arguably smarter than you or I both. If they had no application in the real world, someone else would come up with other theories, and disprove the ones being taught.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Indian doctors are paid no more and no less than American doctors. This is the United States of America - for high quality, skilled jobs, the pay level is relatively consistent no matter where you come from, who your parents are, or what religion you believe in. The difference is at the low skill level. If you want to be employed, have a knowledge of a diverse range of highly specific skills. You will seldom find an unemployed or under-paid anesthesiologist regardless of where they come from. American employers may create a false shortage of workers for low skill level jobs (take into account our illegal imimgration problem), but they are not hiring aerospace engineers for $18,000 a year.

It's not my goal to start a political discussion or say you should buy exclusively Chinese. I just wanted to convey why I believe that the Chinese knife offers its unique benefits in the modern cutlery world.

I just wanted to have an intelligent discussion between individuals that allows for an intellectually stimulating consensus on the source and issues behind Chinese knives.
 
I got mine yesterday and it's a big one.

001-15.jpg


014-23.jpg
 
That, I believe, will be my last post.

I wasn't trying to get political, just wanted to discuss the issues behind the knives made in China. I feel like this Spyderco Resilence thread isn't the right place to discuss that, and I don't want to upset the mods.

Agree or disagree, I have stated my beliefs, and I thank God that I live in a country where I may do so freely, and have a choice in what I say, what I believe, what I buy, et cetera.

God bless you and God bless America.

KATN,

Wade
 
Are the liners the same thickness as on the Persistence and Tenacious?
 
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