Spyderco Southard Flipper

$210 new on the Bay. Mine came a couple days a go and it's easily the nices knife out of the box I've seen in terms of fit/finish and smoothness. That list includes a host of US produced Spydercos, Kershaws and ZTs—all of them nearly flawless themselves.
 
Only someone that has never held a Spyderco would accuse them making a low quality knife or lying about their materials. I have owned two Taiwan Spydies and they have the best F&F of any of them. And Taiwan and China are not the same country.
 
lilknifekid said:
Only someone that has never held a Spyderco would accuse them making a low quality knife or lying about their materials. I have owned two Taiwan Spydies and they have the best F&F of any of them. And Taiwan and China are not the same country.
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I agree very much. The Southard's F&F is amazing as well as other knives made in Taiwan. Great quality coming out of there. Yes it is still overseas produced knife [not a US made] but it is a darn good one. I guess people just got to see it to believe it.
 
As suggested before, I don't think the value's there so I'll stick with Benchmade, ZT, Kershaw, Emerson, and *gasp* Cold Steel.
 
My Southard is every bit the knife my ZTs are, and both far exceed almost any Benchmade, Emerson, or CS.
 
The Southard may be a wonderknife, but $145 for my Contego was just at the highest my budget will ever go. $240 for a knife that doesn't fire lazor beams and filter the flouride out of my water is too much IMO.
 
I for one am shocked that a company doesn't sell it's knives at cost. It's like they want to make money or something!

I think it's a great knife an want to own one.
 
never held a Southard but i love my first generation Manix, with me all the time, so I am not bashing Spyderco product (ok, some are overpriced for what you get-Temperance II, for example, and I am not trying to pick a fight, BUT...
Spyderco invested all new infrastructure in Taiwan for these things? Is this one small example of why USA is tanking? Not solely why, not even a big piece, but, sheesh, invest over here, not over there. Also, the OP is what the OP is (check the other threads) BUT, call him for not backing up his claims and then you forgotwhere you read about the investment in Taiwan and have no idea how to even look for it? Again, not trying to start a fight, but...
 
I really don't think that some people realize how much certain knives would cost if manufactured here in the US. If they were produced here, these same people would be complaining about how expensive they are....:rolleyes:
 
cwdotson said:
never held a Southard but i love my first generation Manix, with me all the time, so I am not bashing Spyderco product (ok, some are overpriced for what you get-Temperance II, for example, and I am not trying to pick a fight, BUT...
Spyderco invested all new infrastructure in Taiwan for these things? Is this one small example of why USA is tanking? Not solely why, not even a big piece, but, sheesh, invest over here, not over there. Also, the OP is what the OP is (check the other threads) BUT, call him for not backing up his claims and then you forgotwhere you read about the investment in Taiwan and have no idea how to even look for it? Again, not trying to start a fight, but...
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Before posting something like this it would be a good idea to search the forum to find the reason why they are produced where they are.
 
Spyderco IS investing over here. They are currently expanding their facility in Golden. The Golden facility has been making Spyderco's longer than Taiwan's. If the decision was made to invest in equipment (not infrastructure, jeez) several years ago, it is obviously going to have updated machines. But criticize your heart out, it is nothing but assumptions with no real basis to actual facts without knowing the whole story, I'm not stopping anyone.

Again, the knife's quality would send it up to the $400 dollar range had it been made here and I believe it. I've owned several knives priced at $400+ and the Southard to me is as good as any knife I've ever owned it terms of F&F and perceived tolerances, and is as close as I'll get to one of Brad Southard's customs. There are many opinions on what is worth it. Nutnfancy will tell you that a $400 American made Sebenza isn't worthit, watch his video. I wold actually think that for a guy who thinks Hinderer mainland China fakes are ok, that he can appreciate a Taiwan (not China) made knife with top notch quality for a fraction of the price. But top notch quality isn't his focus, he talks about "value". Then he turns around and sells engraved nutnfancy edition Tenacious for $150 to his "TNP"ers, where is the value there.

The Southard and knives at these prices are aimed at knife enthusiasts, collectors, and steel junkies. It's perceived quality in workmanship which equals that of Amercian built knives at half the price isn't as important to Nutnfancy. He is after value. Spyderco offers plenty of quality blades at more affordable price points, and he points that out at least. The average boy scout "TNPer" that serves as most of Nutnfancy's viewership will likely not be into knives at this price, heck $50 is too expensive. If you really get into knives, you can appreciate a knife like the Southard regardless of price.
 
rycen, your reply does address one of my observations but not the other. However, it is a perfectly legitimate, albeit terse, response to that prong of the bifurcated comment. I have read some on that point, that justification, and I believe the answer is: cheaper labor. Am I too far off in that conclusion? If so, please enlighten me, succinctly, or give me a link if you do not mind. I sincerely am concerned about investing in building infrastructure for other countries to build products to ship back here to sell. Good stuff can be made here...Buck 110 knives, while not as high-tech, are pretty decent. Heck, my Manix was made here. And, if the machines ARE responsible for the great tolerances and such, seriously, how expensive should the labor be? It's not like master craftsmen are hand-filing every component. Again, if I am missing something dispositive here, I regret that deliquency and concede that this post, especially considering its flavor and hue, may be less than an ideal arean to discuss an issue not entirely novel, yet, I submit, still timely and compelling. Frankly, in this case, I think what caught my attention was what seems at first blush to be a deragotary comment about tolerances of what could be made here, versus what could be made there, after folks here sunk huge capital in building the means to the superior ends there. Something about that dynamic just smacks of disingenuity, even unintended as such. And, although my Manix is so good that I have no desire to invest in what many seem to claim as the gold standard of single-blade folders (I will leave the maker unnamed, to avoid any further unintended ire), I still think the TII is just a bit pricey for the steel and what it is. I really thought about buying one, but i just can't divest myself of that conclusion, and as many of you folks put it, we often vote with our wallets. And while I am typing, what the heck with stopping the original Manix? Best folder I have ever used, just an unbelievable piece of work! Crushing seriously on this knife. Thank you for your patience.
 
cwdotson said:
rycen, your reply does address one of my observations but not the other. However, it is a perfectly legitimate, albeit terse, response to that prong of the bifurcated comment. I have read some on that point, that justification, and I believe the answer is: cheaper labor. Am I too far off in that conclusion? If so, please enlighten me, succinctly, or give me a link if you do not mind. I sincerely am concerned about investing in building infrastructure for other countries to build products to ship back here to sell. Good stuff can be made here...Buck 110 knives, while not as high-tech, are pretty decent. Heck, my Manix was made here. And, if the machines ARE responsible for the great tolerances and such, seriously, how expensive should the labor be? It's not like master craftsmen are hand-filing every component. Again, if I am missing something dispositive here, I regret that deliquency and concede that this post, especially considering its flavor and hue, may be less than an ideal arean to discuss an issue not entirely novel, yet, I submit, still timely and compelling. Frankly, in this case, I think what caught my attention was what seems at first blush to be a deragotary comment about tolerances of what could be made here, versus what could be made there, after folks here sunk huge capital in building the means to the superior ends there. Something about that dynamic just smacks of disingenuity, even unintended as such. And, although my Manix is so good that I have no desire to invest in what many seem to claim as the gold standard of single-blade folders (I will leave the maker unnamed, to avoid any further unintended ire), I still think the TII is just a bit pricey for the steel and what it is. I really thought about buying one, but i just can't divest myself of that conclusion, and as many of you folks put it, we often vote with our wallets. And while I am typing, what the heck with stopping the original Manix? Best folder I have ever used, just an unbelievable piece of work! Crushing seriously on this knife. Thank you for your patience.
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You should learn a bit about manufacturing of knives.

CNCing involves more work than one can normally imagine, it isn't some mass produced process which is done in seconds. It requires a lot of fitting, and clamping to the CNC, flipping material over and fitting and clamping. Readjusting. More flipping over, and more processes. You can't just press a button and watch it do everything, many steps have to be taken and constant supervision is needed. Specially in the way knives are manufactured. One day the CNC can be doing delica blades, the next day handles for a Paramilitary 2. The next day scales for an Endura.

To put into perspective. If you approach a CNC prototyping manufacturer, it starts at $3,000 minimum for small projects and goes up quickly.

I did some research a year or so back for class and was quoted (without additional costs like downtime due to calibrations) around $5,500 for 50 pairs titanium handles, and frame locks. Another $2,500 or more depending on the difficult of cutting s30v for 50 blade blanks (these could be cncing to the point they would be ready for heat treat, then final profile/sharpening). Handle screws, bushings, etc would have to be sourced already made, iirc these were not terribly expensive. They would include sandblasting at no extra charge.
Materials would run nearly $4,500+, the titanium slabs alone would sink in about $3,500~ (I think it was 3x sheets 12"x30"~ at around .9"~ thick that I could source from a local metal shop), and the steel blades would vary upon buying, but I would say maybe $1,000 they would be S30V I forget the sizes of the sheets).
PS These wouldn't even be finished, you would still have to mate the handles, do sever fit and finish, on top of having the blades heat treated, and then profiling.

The price I ended up with was exactly $575~ a piece to break even not including labor for the person getting into the project. Again that's for only 50 knives and having to pretty much outsource production. Of course they would be american made.

I would strongly advise picking up The Exquisite blade: The legend of Chris Reeve.
It shows the manufacturing of the Sebenza, a tremendous amounts of steps.
 
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FCM415, please refer to post #5 before being too condescending regarding my quote of infrastructure. I faintly grasp the concept that this term is probably and usually more sweeping than machinery, but, again, please read same. And I appreciate your other observations. I now must track down one of these Southards and compare it to my Manix (made in Golden) and see if it is really just that much better. I have not done so, but I have compared my Manix to other, highly respected blades in similar mission envelopes, and the Manix is simply not lacking. I wonder, nay, salivate, at what could have been done with the new machinery, or infrastructure, or whatever it is. I just cannot see this package getting that much better, and that conclusion, beit biased, be it prejudiced, is perhaps not the crux of my piping up here but, regardless, a strong component of same.
 
cwdotson said:
I sincerely am concerned about investing in building infrastructure for other countries to build products to ship back here to sell.
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Welcome to the new global economic reality, cw. You don't have to like it. You just have to live in it.
 
Luis G. I have held that knife, and, blasphemous as the conclusion may be, I can afford one one but see no need to replace my Manix 1. I am not maligning one blade but admiring both. And, I did not mean to diminish the skills needed for this particular type of knife manufacture-I have too many relatives and friends in similar work, and do not wish to invoke their wraith by such insult, especially when such slander would be ill-founded. However, I think that is my point: Americans are not yet so dumbed-down by whatever factors could dliute our potential to the point that we can't take advantage of cutting-edge new technology and machinery-If we can do it in Tennessee, many persons in other parts of the nation would conclude that we could do it anywhere.
 
AKOperator said:
The Southard may be a wonderknife, but $145 for my Contego was just at the highest my budget will ever go. $240 for a knife that doesn't fire lazor beams and filter the flouride out of my water is too much IMO.
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Holding both right now. The fact is that the Benchmade is *almost* as good in f&f. The difference is negligible. I think for you and most people (maybe me included) the incredible level of quality you get on a modern Benchmade is perfect (others too, but yes I'm singling BKC out) and I think it sums up the term 'bang for the buck".

What stands out about the Southard for me is not just the high end materials, and f&f, but the repeatability with the model. From most accounts you can buy a Southard and absolutely expect perfect repeatability from knife to knife to knife... I haven't seen that with other knives.

The other thing is ergos. I'm not sure if it's a design product of Brads or Spydercos, but not until I held mine did I realize just how perfect the knife is in hand. The only other knife I know of that gets close is the humble native. There's no doubt Spyderco knows how to fit a knife to a hand!
 
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