Spyderhole - less efficient way to open a knife?

[SpeedHoles]

Don't attribute your dislikes in a generalized way to the Spyderhole as a whole. That would be looking at your issue through tunnel vision.

Like you mentioned, it may come down to your preferences on arc travel, which can just as easily be an issue with any other blade mounted opener.

Chalk it up to the possibility that you purchased the wrong models for your hand strength/dexterity (not a jab, just a fact that we all differ here) and unconcious opening ability.

Try some other models.

I too have noticed a few models with larger or slightly more awkward blade/hole travel. But it doesn't inhibit my own hand much, not to mention I can middle finger flick open just about any model just by second nature, so speed is not an issue and actually faster than stud in many cases where it leaves my hand in a near ideal ready position after opening, compared to any thumb use and resulting grip.

 

[RX-79G]

What kinds were the other two?

A titanium Salsa and an HK Q. I need to get off my butt and sell them.

But a spyderco's opening hole allows for more surface area over which to spread the strength put into opening a knife. A thumb stud is a much smaller surface area, so it would take more strength to open. Yeah? I have a jank left hand due to a really bad accident. I am just now getting my full strength back and I know opening a Spyderco is much easier for me than something with studs.

I still don't think surface area has anything to do with it aside from how much pressure the pad of your thumb feels.

 

[RX-79G]

Don't attribute your dislikes in a generalized way to the Spyderhole as a whole. That would be looking at your issue through tunnel vision.

Like you mentioned, it may come down to your preferences on arc travel, which can just as easily be an issue with any other blade mounted opener.

Chalk it up to the possibility that you purchased the wrong models for your hand strength/dexterity (not a jab, just a fact that we all differ here) and unconcious opening ability.

Try some other models.

I too have noticed a few models with larger or slightly more awkward blade/hole travel. But it doesn't inhibit my own hand much, not to mention I can middle finger flick open just about any model just by second nature, so speed is not an issue and actually faster than stud in many cases where it leaves my hand in a near ideal ready position after opening, compared to any thumb use and resulting grip.

I understand what you are saying, but you can't get large hole any closer to pivot than it is already. Some thumbstuds are likely located as far out, but none that I've ever tried. So I think it is fair to say that a hole generally requires moving the thumb farther than a stud or disc.

 

[Fanglekai]

It generally isn't additional leverage that is needed, as most knives open very smoothly these days - even lock backs.

But (for me) the increased distance puts my thumb out of its natural range, effectively decreasing my opening leverage.



None of which has anything to do with "speed", as some people keep implying. The larger arc is just more difficult and less positive to control for some of us than something that is closer to the thumb's natural range.

Any pivot system light enough will flick open equally well, regardless of thumb vs hole vs flipper because you aren't using the whole range of the arc with any of them.

The larger arc requires less force, so it's effectively easier to open. I can see how different hand sizes would experience this differently to where the larger arc would be more difficult even with less force required to open the blade. In that case look for models with the hole closer to the pivot or smaller knives that have a smaller opening arc.

I have no problem using any of the Spyderholes I've tried. They are quick and easy to use and for me they are preferable to thumb studs.

 

[Faiaoga]

I have not generally used thumb studs or special opening holes. One reason is that my profession (school teacher) or location (not a culture where there is a pocket knife tradition) have made it a good idea to avoid a carry knife that might seem like a "switchblade". I have found, though, that a decent lockback folder can be opened by pinching the blade between thumb an middle finger. Many knives, especially when broken in and lubricated well, can be opened in this manner.

With wet hands, this procedure is sometimes awkward. It would be nice if manufacturers would provide checkering or a rough surface to make opening the blade with one hand and easier task. Even grooves along the spine might help alleviate the problem.

James Jones, in the novel "From Here to Eternity", discusses opening a folder by pinching the blade and catching the tip on clothing. Donald Hamilton, in the Matt Helm spy novels, has his protagonist carry a folding knife and opening it without a thumb stud or special opening hole. Matt Helm worked deep undercover and wanted to appear a harmless as possible, so he used a folder that might be passed off as a utility knife.

 

[SpeedHoles]

I understand what you are saying, but you can't get large hole any closer to pivot than it is already. Some thumbstuds are likely located as far out, but none that I've ever tried. So I think it is fair to say that a hole generally requires moving the thumb farther than a stud or disc.

Keep in mind the hole is a void. The point on the circle which your thumb gets traction and pushes against is typically the edge of the hole closest to the pivot slightly in front of the circle, not the center point.
That is, unless one was deliberately centering your entire thumb pad or finger into the hole, which is unnecessary in most cases and part of the technique issue I was speaking about.
And again, the hole is in no way limited to opening with only your thumb, either, and not just pad, but nail is just as consistent.




And yeah, the Salsa is one of the bizarre ones I was speaking of. I still have a regular aluminum one, and it is not as ergonomic to operate as many current models. I've never operated a Q.
If you were near the Detroit area, I'd be more than willing to let you operate any one of my models to see if any work better for you.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I've owned 3 Spydercos for many years, and found them all tedious to open. I've seen the videos of all the funny ways to open one, but two of mine have so much drag that they won't flick, so the stainless handled Endura was my default favorite because I drew it by the hole and shook the handle open.

On the other two, you just open the knife the old fashioned way - put your thumb on the hole and push it in a long arc. Thumbstuds, even when they have a fair amount of opening drag, just seem easier because your thumb ends up traveling . Tonight I measured a few knives, and it was dramatically obvious that your thumb must travel a larger arc and further distance from the blade pivot on most Spydercos than most thumbstuds. About 1/2" in arc diameter.


Spyderco is a fine company that makes excellent products, so this is not an anti-Spyderco thread. And several other companies use some variation on the thumbhole, which almost always requires a larger thumb arc to open. Yet, this never seems to be a topic of conversation.

Does anybody else find thumbholes long, slow and requiring more dexterity? Or do liner lock versions flick so well that most Spydie users never have to trace the full arc?

I'm not trying to offend ya.

It's difficult to convey tone of voice and body language in text

Just want to discuss,

i think it's your anatomy and technique and preference.

In no order.

I wouldn't use an opinion as fact based on some irralvent observation about "arc" distance.

Its possible your opening it inefficiently

It's possible it's inheritly inefficient and one has to adapt a technique.

Not sure, makes my head hurt

To answer the questions, I'm talking about comparing backlocks to backlocks or linerlocks to linerlocks. I do not find the hole to be more positive or easy to find or grasp than a reasonably normal stud, and the larger arc of the hole makes me feel like I'm less in control of the blade. I also don't feel like a good stud is any less positively in contact with the meat of thumb.

I think Spydercos were popular with climbers because they were one handed, had clips, serrated blades, light weight handles and came in bright colors. They likely would have been just as popular with studs.

The thumb hole locks the thumb in the blade when opening.

The thumb doesn't have that kind of security with a thumb stud.

It's much more "slippery"

The spyderhole is not popular because of climbers.

It's popular because it's a safe, fast reliable way to open a pocket knife with one hand. In a two hand opening knife world

It revolutionized the knife world at the time by moving away from nail nicks two handed opening knives in belt sheathes to today's normal of one handed locking knife clipped to the pocket.

 

[STAINLESS90]

lt;dra I prefer having a thumb hole as it makes it much easier to use while wearing gloves. In my experience it provides more area to open the knife with.

 

[RX-79G]

Keep in mind the hole is a void. The point on the circle which your thumb gets traction and pushes against is typically the edge of the hole closest to the pivot slightly in front of the circle, not the center point.
That is, unless one was deliberately centering your entire thumb pad or finger into the hole, which is unnecessary in most cases and part of the technique issue I was speaking about.
And again, the hole is in no way limited to opening with only your thumb, either, and not just pad, but nail is just as consistent.




And yeah, the Salsa is one of the bizarre ones I was speaking of. I still have a regular aluminum one, and it is not as ergonomic to operate as many current models. I've never operated a Q.
If you were near the Detroit area, I'd be more than willing to let you operate any one of my models to see if any work better for you.

The effective surface in any system is whatever opposes your thumb from going in the direction it is trying to go. So that is going to be the top of the hole closest to the pivot when closed, ending at the point on the hole furthest from the pivot when it is fully opened. With a stud that is going to be the bottom of the stud, furthest from the pivot going to the point on the stud closest to the pivot.



This thread isn't some big expose on thumb holes. I expected a lot of people to prefer them and a fair number to voice similar experiences to mine, and that's pretty much what happened. I don't think holes are bad, they just don't feel good in my hands, due to the necessary extra travel. I don't think they are actually any more "positive" or "secure" than a stud with a sharp edge - and some studs do not have sharp edges. By the same reasoning, I'm sure some holes shapes don't have great traction, either.


Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

 

[22-rimfire]

Here is my take on the hole, arc and so forth.... in most cases, I use two hands and the hole gives a convenient grab point and the arc doesn't matter. I am not in a race to open these knives. Self defense... give me a break... how often has that happened in your entire life?

I can open them one handed, it is just not important.

 

[RX-79G]

Here is my take on the hole, arc and so forth.... in most cases, I use two hands and the hole gives a convenient grab point and the arc doesn't matter. I am not in a race to open these knives. Self defense... give me a break... how often has that happened in your entire life?

I can open them one handed, it is just not important.

Self defense is not part of this. There many reasons that one handed knives have become popular.

 

[KingMC]

Every Spyderco I've held and used was a one-handed opener, and regardless of how long it takes to open the blade fully they are still much easier to open than any knife with a thumb stud. I don't consider efficiency to be a major concern in a folding knife unless a whole extra hand is required for opening. Studs and holes are both one-handed, so the only difference is in comfort and that goes to the hole for being easier and less painful than studs.

 

[EChoil]

Not a Spyderco customer but....any opening method that involves one less part is fine with me.

 

[22-rimfire]

Self defense is not part of this. There many reasons that one handed knives have become popular.

Of course there are. So speed matters little also.

 

[SCWillson]

Of course there are. So speed matters little also.

Purely as an anecdotal experiment, I timed my Spyderco Dice opening both with flipper and Spydiehole. After five times each method, the Spydiehole averaged 0.25 seconds to open. The flipper averaged 0.12 seconds, or about twice as fast. I cannot envision any plausible scenario where 0.13 seconds difference would be relevant.

 

[-Corey-]

You should feel the operation of something like a PM2.

I've owned very few knives that could rival it in smoothness, one of which was the Benchmade 730.

I went looking for one locally a few days ago but didn't find any. I also couldn't find anything but the digital camo in stock online, so I placed a pre-order on a blue g-10, s110v just now,along with a Manix 2 in the same config. I'll check em out and see if they change my mind.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I went looking for one locally a few days ago but didn't find any. I also couldn't find anything but the digital camo in stock online, so I placed a pre-order on a blue g-10, s110v just now,along with a Manix 2 in the same config. I'll check em out and see if they change my mind.

Corey, Just keep in mind that S30v is a great performer especially if you haven't tried it.

 

[WA Martin]

I love Spyderholes. It maybe because I'm left-handed but I cannot get thumb studs to work for me. Spyderholes always open unless the knife is just too small for my hands. So I just pinch my Kiwi. I can't remember if I pinch my Lava or thumb it...

 

[RX-79G]

Every Spyderco I've held and used was a one-handed opener, and regardless of how long it takes to open the blade fully they are still much easier to open than any knife with a thumb stud. I don't consider efficiency to be a major concern in a folding knife unless a whole extra hand is required for opening. Studs and holes are both one-handed, so the only difference is in comfort and that goes to the hole for being easier and less painful than studs.

Any thumb stud? I really don't care about people's preferences, but I'm a little surprised that you found a light opening thumbstud liner lock more difficult to open than a lockback hole opener.

 

[RX-79G]

Of course there are. So speed matters little also.

I think speed is only a measure of ease. If something is truly easy to do it will generally be the fast way to do it as well.