Stainless choices

sunshadow

sunshadow

Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
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I need some recommendations for stainless. I have customer interested in having me create a line of kitchen knives for their boutique to sell.
Considerations:
Some of the knives will be stock removal (I know that will be a shock to anyone who knows me!)
some will be forged
I am looking primarily for fine edge holding, I want primary carbide sizes under 1 micron (Large chunky carbide structure which leads to the "toothy" edge is not something I find desirable in a kitchen knife)


I will be sending these out for HT so home heat treat compatibility is not an issue.

-Page
 
i have never used it but i hear 13c26 has the virtues your looking for. Do a search in this forum. Seams to be very fine grained and stainless i want to try some myself.
 
I have never heard of 13c26. Fine grain is good, what is the carbide volume structure like?
does it forge well? or is it mostly a stock-removal steel?

-Page
 
Took a little poking around, primary uses opthalmic surgical blades! that's a good indication of potential fine edge holding capability.
I shall have to look into sources and dimensions available.

Other recommendations? (especially useful would be reasons for recommendations) I have no experience working with stainless so I want as much info as I can to start with

-Page
 
Page, note that 13c26 is Sandvik version of AEB-L, so comments on that steel should apply. It's what I selected for my kitchen knives but have yet to finish one because the forge interrupted anything. My reasons:

- fine edge
- easy to sharpen
- very stain resistant
- good martensite matrix (if I understand Verhoeven's appendix)
- cheap (from Admiral in 2" x 6')

Downsides:

- only available in .100 and .125 thickness
 
Page,
If you really want the top end ( and really hate yourself)
ZDP-189
Cowry X
Cowry Y

I mostly use CPM-154

Stacy
 
Last edited:
bladsmth said:
Page,
If you really want the top end ( and really hate yourself)
ZDP-289
Cowry X
Cowry Y

I mostly use CPM-154

Stacy
Click to expand...

I have never heard of the ZDP and Cowry steels. What are their properties (and who makes them?) and why would I be hating myself if I try them?

-Page
 
I'm no authority on stainless, but for my kitchen knives (which I'll admit, I had Butch make...he does well better on kitchen knives then I can hope to) I went with CPM154. I can vouch for its ability to take and hold an edge from using the knives I have from Butch.

I would say that if you decide on the CPM154/ATS34/RWL34 family that the extra expense of the Crucible version is probably worth your while. The particulate metallurgy process really does help in keeping the carbides small and well distributed in the matrix which is good for performance and great for finishing. You'll spend a lot less time doing any fine finish work if you don't have large carbides ripping out and scratching your surface. Now, "large" as I use it there is a relative term obviously, but if you're heading to anything approaching a polish it'll save you lots of time.

I'm sure Butch will chime in with his thoughts as he's used a lot of CPM154 as well as Crucible's SXXv series steels.

-d
 
Not to hijack, but is there a huge advantage for using CPM154 over 154CM? For the cost, Ive ruled out 440c for my project, and im going with the 154 or another premium stainless as is. The crucible 154 series is on there. ZDP-189 is just out of my price range, but I hear its top notch in just about every area except affordability.
 
Not a hijack at all!

Welcome! The more questions the better, I don't work with stainless and have an order for stainless knives, so more questions help clarify things.
My understanding of the particle metallurgy process is that the steel is divided into very fine particles and then sintered back into a solid at high temperatures and pressures which helps keep the carbides uniformly distributed and very small.

-Page
 
I made a french style chef's knife out of 19c27 last year. It was going to someone that tends to be pretty tough on things. He's had it for about six months and adores it. Had a rather toothy edge for my tastes, and absolutely didn't want to give up it's scratches after heat treat, but he says it makes quick work of veggies and poultry. I've only touched it up for him once since delivering it, and there were no signs of chipping -- something I thought I'd certainly need to deal with, considering I knew it'd be tossed around in the sink!
 
Matt, In your opinion do you think it is carbide structure limiting that knife to a toothy edge? Is that so far the only knife you have made in 19c27? How is it for stain/corrosion resistance?

-Page
 
13C26 is what you want to use. 19C27 is a steel that has good wear resistance with a little larger carbide size. 19C27 is quite easy to work, polish, and sharpen. Its corrosion resistance is lower than many other stianless steels. CPM stainless steel carbides are significantly larger than 1 micron, but CPm-154 is a good option for many people. ZDP and Cowry have limited availability and high cost.

Sandvik has a portion of their site dedicated to knife steels: http://www.smt.sandvik.com/hardeningguide
 
I don't plan to ever use any stainless blade steel but if I had to, it would be Sandvik 13C26.
I had a lockback folder by PJ Tomas, with a 13C26, that was ground super thin. Even
though it was stainless, I liked the knife a lot and it performed very well.

Devin told me a while back, "if you like the toughness and sharpness of good old carbon
steel, then you would realy like 13C26".
 
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