Stainless choices

Does it hold up OK?

I was thinking of using 13C26 for some kitchen knives but ended up with 134CM. Any idea how the 13C26 holds up in the kitchen?

Tait
 
There is at least one smith that I know who is going to the the Sandvik steel a try on his stainless stick removal blades because of his dissatisfaction with the "chipiness" of S30V. The only thing that I can add to the discussion is find out what Henckels uses for their mid range German made kitchen knives..........and avoid it!!! :D The stuff takes a very sharp edge, but it is about as chippy as I have seen, even when the edge is dull and mashed down like my mom and brother's knives were before I sharpened them..
 
tait said:
Does it hold up OK?

I was thinking of using 13C26 for some kitchen knives but ended up with 134CM. Any idea how the 13C26 holds up in the kitchen?

Tait
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It holds up really well. It's perfect for kitchen knives.
 
I've heard 12C27 called stainless 5160 and 13C26 called stainless 52100. Anybody have any idea whether or not they are comparable to these proven carbon steels?
 
darrin sanders said:
I've heard 12C27 called stainless 5160 and 13C26 called stainless 52100. Anybody have any idea whether or not they are comparable to these proven carbon steels?
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12C27 and 13C26 are closer to each other than 5160 and 52100 are. 12C27 has somewhat greater corrosion resistance and toughness than 13C26 at the sacrifice of potential hardness and wear resistance. The difference is fairly small though. Perhaps 12C27mod would be a better comparison to 5160, but these kinds of comparisons are tenuous and not very meaninful. 52100 is known for its very small carbides which leads to ease in resharpening and high toughness, etc. 13C26 also has very fine carbides, the harder chromium carbides mean it has somewhat greater wear resistance, but the ease in sharpening is similar. High toughness and ease in sharpening is generally what is lacking in PM stainless grades, though they sacrifice this for high wear resistance. 13C26 is much more similar to carbon steels than PM stainless steels.
 
sunshadow said:
Not a hijack at all!

Welcome! The more questions the better, I don't work with stainless and have an order for stainless knives, so more questions help clarify things.
My understanding of the particle metallurgy process is that the steel is divided into very fine particles and then sintered back into a solid at high temperatures and pressures which helps keep the carbides uniformly distributed and very small.

-Page
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Thats my understanding how powdered steels work and the advantage of. My question was is it worth the extra price of it? Supposively the powdered metals HT harder than the non. Case in point CPM154 vs CM154. Correct me if im wrong here.
 
Larrin said:
12C27 and 13C26 are closer to each other than 5160 and 52100 are. 12C27 has somewhat greater corrosion resistance and toughness than 13C26 at the sacrifice of potential hardness and wear resistance. The difference is fairly small though. Perhaps 12C27mod would be a better comparison to 5160, but these kinds of comparisons are tenuous and not very meaninful. 52100 is known for its very small carbides which leads to ease in resharpening and high toughness, etc. 13C26 also has very fine carbides, the harder chromium carbides mean it has somewhat greater wear resistance, but the ease in sharpening is similar. High toughness and ease in sharpening is generally what is lacking in PM stainless grades, though they sacrifice this for high wear resistance. 13C26 is much more similar to carbon steels than PM stainless steels.
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Thanks Larrin, :thumbup:that clears things up very well. The spec. sheets show the chromium difference between 12C27 & 13C26 to be only 50 points. How much of a real world difference does 50 points make in corrosion resistance?
 
darrin sanders said:
Thanks Larrin, :thumbup:that clears things up very well. The spec. sheets show the chromium difference between 12C27 & 13C26 to be only 50 points. How much of a real world difference does 50 points make in corrosion resistance?
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I recommend reading Verhoeven's book, especially the chapter on Stainless Steel as well as the appendix about knife steels that shows how much chromium ends up in solution (which is then available for corrosion resistance).
 
What's the name of the book? I hope it's not the one that costs 250-300 bucks. I would love to own it but can't swing it right now.
 
So what stainless would you recommend for the knives I will be forging? (still looking for extremely fine carbides) and at least moderate plasticity at forging temps

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sunshadow said:
So what stainless would you recommend for the knives I will be forging? (still looking for extremely fine carbides) and at least moderate plasticity at forging temps

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If the 12C27 and 13C26 is too thin for you to forge, than that would limit your options. Otherwise that would be my top choice.

In my opinion PM 440C or perhaps CPM-154 would be your options for small carbide size in larger available sizes. They have relatively small carbides to the non-PM steels, but very few steels have 1 micron carbides. Even most carbon steels are in the 2-4 micron range. S30V is good but could be tough to forge and is often not liked by forging guys because of difficulty in sharpening. CPM-154, because of its greater red hardness may cause problems in forging. The new PM 440C from Carpenter might be a good fit. They call it CTS-40CP. Otherwise you'd have to try and find a good deal on some kind of 420HC with a good carbon content. I'm not sure where that is available.

Also remember that you need a controlled furnace if you want to work with stainless steels, and you will have more problems with scale control and carbon loss. I would stick with stock removal if it were me.
 
I'm looking for versatile but WOW, I'm getting sold on 13C26 quite a bit in this thread.

How is it for applications outside of the kitchen?

Also is the heat treat formula readily known - in other words, will it be a pain in the butt to find a HT service that will do a good job?

Thanks in advance!
 
I tried reading the book. Too complicated for a dumba$$ like me. So can somebody explain how much difference 1/2 of 1 percent of chromium makes in real world conditions?
 
Los Angeles said:
I'm looking for versatile but WOW, I'm getting sold on 13C26 quite a bit in this thread.

How is it for applications outside of the kitchen?
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It does well in applications favoring edge stability (i.e. small carbides), high toughness, and high sharpness. It is, of course, a razor blade steel so it's perfect for razors if the barstock is in the right thickness. Also good for EDC knives that will be used primarily for push cutting and will be given a high grit sharpening. For those who prefer a steel that is easy to sharpen as opposed to high wear resistance PM grades will also like 13C26.

Its main weakness is in applications requiring high wear resistance, such as rope cutters, hunting knives, etc.
Also is the heat treat formula readily known - in other words, will it be a pain in the butt to find a HT service that will do a good job?

Thanks in advance!
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Yes. No.
 
darrin sanders said:
I tried reading the book. Too complicated for a dumba$$ like me. So can somebody explain how much difference 1/2 of 1 percent of chromium makes in real world conditions?
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It's hard to give a specific answer to a general question. I'll just say...not very much.
 
Thanks Larrin, thats what I thought but wasn't sure. I recently started using 12C27 & 13C26 and like them. From what I have gathered from this thread is that of the two, 12C27 is best for hunters and choppers, and 13C26 is better for kitchen knives and folders. Is this correct?
 
darrin sanders said:
Thanks Larrin, thats what I thought but wasn't sure. I recently started using 12C27 & 13C26 and like them. From what I have gathered from this thread is that of the two, 12C27 is best for hunters and choppers, and 13C26 is better for kitchen knives and folders. Is this correct?
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The two are very similar. 13C26 gets a little harder and has a little greater wear resistance and 12C27 has greater corrosion resistance and toughness. I would use 13C26 in almost anything, and only choose 12C27 if I needed a larger size since 13C26 is only available in .100 and .130. If anything 13C26 would make a better hunter, in my opinion, because of the need for wear resistance in hunting knives.
 
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