Stainless choices

Thanks Larrin, thats what I had originally thought when I decided to start working with these steels. Use 13C26 unless the knife called for thicker stock, and if so go to 12C27. Wish they made 13C26 in thicker stock. Anyway, thanks again for all the input.
 
Larrin, I also want to thank you very much for your fantastic input here.

I have a question, though.

In one post, you say "For those who prefer a steel that is easy to sharpen as opposed to high wear resistance PM grades will also like 13C26. Its main weakness is in applications requiring high wear resistance, such as rope cutters, hunting knives, etc."

Yet, in the next post you say "If anything 13C26 would make a better hunter, in my opinion, because of the need for wear resistance in hunting knives."

Are these contradictory statements? Or am I confusing myself?

Thanks again, this has been a very enlightening thread. :)
 
BlackToe Knives said:
How come no one ever suggests 440c. It was the original super steel.
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Likely because it's performance qualities have been surpassed by a variety of newer alloys. There's certainly nothing wrong with it, but there's better choices available for most applications.
 
Los Angeles said:
Larrin, I also want to thank you very much for your fantastic input here.

I have a question, though.

In one post, you say "For those who prefer a steel that is easy to sharpen as opposed to high wear resistance PM grades will also like 13C26. Its main weakness is in applications requiring high wear resistance, such as rope cutters, hunting knives, etc."

Yet, in the next post you say "If anything 13C26 would make a better hunter, in my opinion, because of the need for wear resistance in hunting knives."

Are these contradictory statements? Or am I confusing myself?

Thanks again, this has been a very enlightening thread. :)
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Sorry for the confusion. The "13C26 would make a better hunter..." statement was in reference to 12C27.
 
Please excuse the stupid question, please tell us what the alleged hardness of a Spyderco knives with steel H-1
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Likely because it's performance qualities have been surpassed by a variety of newer alloys. There's certainly nothing wrong with it, but there's better choices available for most applications.
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440C was my original choice for steel in my kitchen knife project, but Ive found theres many others out there that just out perform it, and for not too much more.
 
Dan Pierson said:
Page, note that 13c26 is Sandvik version of AEB-L, so comments on that steel should apply. It's what I selected for my kitchen knives but have yet to finish one because the forge interrupted anything. My reasons:

- fine edge
- easy to sharpen
- very stain resistant
- good martensite matrix (if I understand Verhoeven's appendix)
- cheap (from Admiral in 2" x 6')

Downsides:

- only available in .100 and .125 thickness
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I agree with Dan about Uddeholm AEB-L, I have been using it since the mid-80's. It holds an excellent edge while it is easily to sharpen. It benefits from a quicker air cool down than most steels ( prevents carbide precipitation in grain boundaries). Dan, only disagreement I have is AEB-L was mfg in thicker than .125, all my AEB-L is .142 as my supplier had a special run made in the early 80's:D:thumbup:
 
Sorry, the thickness comment was intended to be specific to 13C26. I've never looked up where to get small quantities of AEB-L so have no idea what sizes it's sold in.
 
I would love to be able to get some 13C26 in 5/32 & 3/16. If anybody knows where to get some please post it here.
 
Both and more :) Why do you want to forge stainless blades?

Forging temps are very critical for SS, as are thermal cycles and annealing can take 2 days. The steel is in a very good state when you get it and I see no benefit in forging it. SS is a very different animal than simple carbon steels. I forge but if I were going to make stainless kitchen knives, I'd get some 13C26 and start grinding.
 
Danjal said:
440C was my original choice for steel in my kitchen knife project, but Ive found theres many others out there that just out perform it, and for not too much more.
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Have you actually tested them for yourself? How did you test it?

I have tested and know for a fact that CPM154 will hold an edge better than 440C and am sure there are other new ones that will outperform it.

What I don't understand is when 154CM and ATS 34 are ones mentioned as surpassing or being better than 440C when my experience says different. Where does this come from? They are nearly the same and perform the same. I have made knives for butchering with different color handles so only I can tell the difference and asked friends to tell me the difference. Those knives are still used by my hunting buddy and another good customer of mine that uses knives hard, they are used extensively during the winter processing deer. The knives go back and forth, they all come to me if they need more than a steel or crock stick which is very seldom. Which ones they think hold an edge best go back and forth to the point no one can tell the difference in the performance of the knives.

If anyone tests those and found any of the three to be sub par to the others it was a difference in the edge, problem with the heat treat, batch of steel or something but not the steel in general.
 
cfendley said:
Have you actually tested them for yourself? How did you test it?

I have tested and know for a fact that CPM154 will hold an edge better than 440C and am sure there are other new ones that will outperform it.

What I don't understand is when 154CM and ATS 34 are ones mentioned as surpassing or being better than 440C when my experience says different. Where does this come from? They are nearly the same and perform the same. I have made knives for butchering with different color handles so only I can tell the difference and asked friends to tell me the difference. Those knives are still used by my hunting buddy and another good customer of mine that uses knives hard, they are used extensively during the winter processing deer. The knives go back and forth, they all come to me if they need more than a steel or crock stick which is very seldom. Which ones they think hold an edge best go back and forth to the point no one can tell the difference in the performance of the knives.

If anyone tests those and found any of the three to be sub par to the others it was a difference in the edge, problem with the heat treat, batch of steel or something but not the steel in general.
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That's interesting. What you seem be coming to is that the differences in chemistry between the different alloys isn't significant in your application but that the difference in carbide size and/or uniform quality of alloy distribution with CPM steels is significant. If accurate, that's important.
 
I second the AEB-L/13C26, but it only really performs when heat treated to higher hardness. The production knives that use this steel isn't representative of what the steel is capable of in terms of performance. It also mirror polishes very easily, and is very tough. They grind pretty fast even on cheap belts so costs go down.

For thicker than 1/8" you can try one of the European suppliers but costs are higher.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Both and more :) Why do you want to forge stainless blades?

Forging temps are very critical for SS, as are thermal cycles and annealing can take 2 days. The steel is in a very good state when you get it and I see no benefit in forging it. SS is a very different animal than simple carbon steels. I forge but if I were going to make stainless kitchen knives, I'd get some 13C26 and start grinding.
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I was hoping to do some more plastic shaping, integral forged bolsters etc. I was hoping that I could manage that without messing up the structure too badly

oh well :mad: guess I make dust

-Page
 
Is it possible that 440C gets a bad rep because of it's lowly sisters 440A and 440B?

I know a lot of crappy chinese knives just say "440" on them, I've run into a few of these in downtown L.A. They do this to try to raise their products up, but end up just pulling 440C down.

For this reason alone, part of me would just rather use a different steel.
 
Los Angeles said:
Is it possible that 440C gets a bad rep because of it's lowly sisters 440A and 440B?
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Since when did 440C get a bad rep? I think most people consider it an above average steel. People moved on to 154CM though, which performs similar but can get a little harder.
 
Dan Pierson said:
That's interesting. What you seem be coming to is that the differences in chemistry between the different alloys isn't significant in your application but that the difference in carbide size and/or uniform quality of alloy distribution with CPM steels is significant. If accurate, that's important.
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Yes, in my unscientific study which involves just actually taking them out and using them. Also if it weren't for that the CPM would have no advantage over the regular 154CM. The CPM also just seems to get sharper if you really want that hair popping edge which may be an advantage in fillet and kitchen knives. Also there is not a huge difference in the chemistry of 440C, ATS34, and 154CM. Someone has probably not tested all three to just rule one out over the others. I actually like the 440C best because the only thing I've found the other two to do more than it is to rust.

That said all our personal kitchen knives I've made from 440C. I my wife asks for a different one tomorrow it will be made of 440C.
 
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