Steel Junky's - need opinions

This is a fantastic idea. The wharnie profile offers a lot of potential. Please count me in!

Either sharpened or unsharpened would work for me. I plan to dull each blade :)
 
Sounds like a great idea to me
I'm not going to make any "in stone" commitments until I find out the price, but I am very interested!:cool:
 
hardheart said:
The whole point of me suggesting the blades ship without an edge is so people, with varying sharpening skills (but still capable), can make a very real determination of how each steel sharpens, and do it immediately. The edge stability was also why I said as much, because we like to sharpen our own way, and for certain tasks. If we can sharpen, then we can resharpen. We can adjust angles and finishes, and then compare how each steel performed with such changes. If people don't sharpen their own knives and always send them back to Spyderco for edge restoration, then simply evaluating each knife with a Spyderco edge would be fine. But then you miss out on a lot of info important to a lot of people. But it really depends on how wide a field of people Sal wants to involve in this; people who can't sharpen well at all aren't going to be a source of info on the 'ease of sharpening' category. Of course, nothing is stopping anyone from resharpening a factory fresh edge, but I thought it would also be a cost saving measure for Sal to skip this step and let us do it on our own.

edit-I dunno, to me, I kinda sound a little rough in this post. I don't mean to be, just want to explain my suggestion a bit more. :D
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Maybe I misunderstood. By unsharpened do you mean that there is an edge profile set but the profiled edge is not sharpened? or do you mean that there is no profile set?
 
Well, I've noticed that the vocab changes with the individual/forum, but I'm saying that the blade has a primary and not edge grind-that it looks like a knife (V-shaped cross section) but wouldn't be able to cut more than warm butter :D If Sal has these little blades ground as thin as other flat ground spydies, then we wouldn't have an extreme amount of steel to remove (~.10"), but it would still be a task best handled with power equipment or very coarse paper or stones. For me, I have the choice of 50 grit sandpaper, 1x30 belts for a cheapie belt sander, a 60 grit aluminum oxide stone, a 120 grit DMT diamond hone, and a couple coarse/medium double sided silicon carbide stones to remove lots of metal with. From there I have a 600 grit DMT sharpening steel, Spyderco Profiles and ultrafine rod, 2.5 micron silicon carbide paste, and .5 micron chromium oxide on paper and leather to work with. Others with better and more equipment have a variety of waterstones, Edge Pros, more diamonds, arkansas stones, boron carbide, loaded mylar film, magic pixie dust, etc to create screaming edges with. Since Sal specifically mentioned steel junkies, I just sorta figure that also means people who are sharpening junkies.
 
I'm very interested as well...but would much prefer a 4" drop point. I really don't care for a wharncliff. No sheath, no handle slabs...no problem.
 
hardheart said:
Well, I've noticed that the vocab changes with the individual/forum, but I'm saying that the blade has a primary and not edge grind-that it looks like a knife (V-shaped cross section) but wouldn't be able to cut more than warm butter :D If Sal has these little blades ground as thin as other flat ground spydies, then we wouldn't have an extreme amount of steel to remove (~.10"), but it would still be a task best handled with power equipment or very coarse paper or stones. For me, I have the choice of 50 grit sandpaper, 1x30 belts for a cheapie belt sander, a 60 grit aluminum oxide stone, a 120 grit DMT diamond hone, and a couple coarse/medium double sided silicon carbide stones to remove lots of metal with. From there I have a 600 grit DMT sharpening steel, Spyderco Profiles and ultrafine rod, 2.5 micron silicon carbide paste, and .5 micron chromium oxide on paper and leather to work with. Others with better and more equipment have a variety of waterstones, Edge Pros, more diamonds, arkansas stones, boron carbide, loaded mylar film, magic pixie dust, etc to create screaming edges with. Since Sal specifically mentioned steel junkies, I just sorta figure that also means people who are sharpening junkies.
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I'd use my DMT D8XX, then DMT 600, then go through the Spyderco grits to put the edge on it.. Like you said, power equipment would be faster, but I think with a little time and elbow grease the D8XX would work just fine, as it cuts through steel like a champ for me when I do extreme reprofiles. It would take a little time, but I think we would learn a lot about the sharpening properties of the blade by doing this way, instead of having the great factory edge to start with. Of course, half the people here may only want the blades due to the great factory edge, but I would love to put it on myself.
 
All depends on price and if we have to sign up for a year's worth of trials at a shot. Can't be any worse than buying a new custom every couple months, and this way it's a custom spydie :cool:

As far as the sharpened/unsharpened issue, the option to get it with or without a shaving sharp spydie factory edge would be the deciding issue for a lot of ppl. Something like s60V is damn near impossible to reprofile with benchstones, possible but not easy. As much as I'd love to say 'lets go with unsharpened knives' and have the fun of setting my own edge, I know I don't have the time to actually sit down and dedicate a day to sharpening very often.
 
I own an edge pro along with a belt sander so I have no problems creating an edge. That being said however, I think its very important that the knives come SHARPENED. This allows everyone to start at the same point and reduces a very important variable--edge geometry. The steels' sharpenability and ability to take an edge can easily be determined after the knife becomes dull.
 
I am up for! I find it an excellent idea. Regarding blade shape, I believe that both the warncliff, as well as, the leaf spear have a lot of potential. Length-wise I would suggest a 4" blade since it is still easily used on a daily basis and offers more cutting ability than smaller blades.

Joe Talmadge said:
I'd like price to be rock bottom (as rock bottom as possible, considering you're working with expensive, hard-to-machine steels), so I love the blade shape, love it as a fixed blade.
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Sal Glesser said:
I think I can create an ergonomic handle. I think full flat grinds would be simple and consistent. 3m thick (approx .120) would be available in most steels. We'll skeletonize (weight reduction) and drill the handle so aftermarket scales can be attached.
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I also agree with and support both of these ideas / proposals.
 
As for the sharpened or unsharpened there is a big difference between reprofileing an existing edge bevel and no edge bevel. I'd be willing to bet even most of the sharpening nuts haven't created an edge on a knife blank with no edge bevel at all. I'd also guess that factory sharpened isn't really going to change the cost much at all.
 
db said:
I'd be willing to bet even most of the sharpening nuts haven't created an edge on a knife blank with no edge bevel at all.
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They're just posers :p I do understand that anyone who uses just an old set of Arkansas stones to maintain their knives would waste their golden years trying to set an edge on something like S90V, so it could effectively eliminate people who may otherwise want to participate. Same with Lanskys, or people who have only the med/fine rods on their sharpmaker. Working with good silicon carbide, ceramic, and especially diamond, eliminates for me most noticeable differences in sharpening, especially starting with a fine edge. There's a different 'bite' on the hone, but otherwise time taken is about the same once all edges reach a comparable level.

Either way for me, now let's get back to some other points. We all agree on using 52100 for the first run, right?

:D
 
db said:
The cheapest way they can. :D LOL it's just ajoke for those of you that don't get it.
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Which was obvious by the smiley. :D That smiley is scary, by the way, it gives me nightmares.
 
We all agree on using 52100 for the first run, right?
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hell no. I could live with it I guess but it certainly isn't my first choice. My choice is immaterial though.The way I understand it Sal wanted to begin with steel already in use at spyderco to see how everything goes. Probably a wise choice. It's better than going out and buying hundreds of pounds of exotic steels for a project that doesn't work out for whatever reason. BTW, my vote would be 20-CV or CPM M4 for the first knife. I've got enough knives in 52100 to where it's not an exotic. Still an excellent steel though depending on the heat treatment. Also against shipping knives out unsharpened. JL
 
hardheart said:
They're just posers :p I do understand that anyone who uses just an old set of Arkansas stones to maintain their knives would waste their golden years trying to set an edge on something like S90V, so it could effectively eliminate people who may otherwise want to participate. Same with Lanskys, or people who have only the med/fine rods on their sharpmaker. Working with good silicon carbide, ceramic, and especially diamond, eliminates for me most noticeable differences in sharpening, especially starting with a fine edge. There's a different 'bite' on the hone, but otherwise time taken is about the same once all edges reach a comparable level.

Either way for me, now let's get back to some other points. We all agree on using 52100 for the first run, right?

:D
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I agree. I have put a razor edge to a knife made out of O1 that was duller than a spoon. I really can't tell how many hours it took me to make it there without messing with the temper of course. We don't mean just sharpening but actually completely reprofiling a very hard blade. Same thing with 5160 and 1084. It is more than a laborious task:eek:! So, I would definitely want to get those knives factory sharp.
 
SeanH said:
Could someone explain "wear resistance" and "impact toughness" in the context of a small fixed blade knife and how they may affect the features we value in a good knife?
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Impact toughness is the ability of the steel to take a sudden and violent impact, such as if you hit the blade with a steel hammer. It generally is of value on very large knives which take such impacts directly by slamming into objects or having objects slam in to them. To get a high impact toughness you want a low carbon content and very little carbide.

Wear resistance measures the ability of steel to resist wear, usually abrasive in standard tests. It is increased in a steel by raising the carbon content and filling it with lots of alloy carbides, Vanadium is really popular now for that purpose, S30V for example.

Steels with a high wear resistance will hold a low level of push cutting sharpness for a very long time or a really coarse slicing finish. It isn't as critical if you are looking for keeping a very high push cutting sharpness, in fact it tends to reduce that. For that you want a high hardness and a very low carbide structure.

-Cliff
 
The Mastiff said:
hell no. I could live with it I guess but it certainly isn't my first choice. My choice is immaterial though.The way I understand it Sal wanted to begin with steel already in use at spyderco to see how everything goes. Probably a wise choice. It's better than going out and buying hundreds of pounds of exotic steels for a project that doesn't work out for whatever reason. BTW, my vote would be 20-CV or CPM M4 for the first knife. I've got enough knives in 52100 to where it's not an exotic. Still an excellent steel though depending on the heat treatment. Also against shipping knives out unsharpened. JL
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Yeah, but Sal is coming out with a bushcraft blade in 2 versions, and one is planned to be in 52100, so I thought this project could go hand in hand with the development for that knife. Heck, I've got 16 pounds of E52100 right here, and a slipjoint with a forged blade by Ray Kirk.

I'd like to see M4 somewhere in the mix as well, and O7 if feasible.

Has anyone had a kydex handled knife? I know that sheathmechanic was putting them on Becker BK11s, and if they're any good, maybe those who want a handle could do batch orders for a handle mod. Maybe using chicago screws, since rivets would prevent swapping.
 
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