Stellite 6B and 6K

Deloro Stellite Inc.
P.O. Box 5300
Belleville, Ontario K8N 5C4

Stellite alloy 6K pricing:
Thickness Price per Pound Tolerance
.187” $140 USD +.021”/-.010”
.156” $155 USD +.016”/-.010”
.125 $170 USD +.010”/-.010”

Note: Stellite alloy 6K supplied hot rolled and hot sheared to size.

For orders over 5 pounds or prices on laser cut blanks:

Contact Kelly Miller at
1-800-267-2886 Ext 246
kmiller@stellite.com

$200 Minimum Order
FOB Belleville, Ont.
Duty Paid

Estimated weight = Length x Width x Thickness x .303

Example: 8” x 1” x .187” x .303 = .45 pounds
( allow for tolerance variations )
 
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thank you very much
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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
What is the crystal structure of the cobalt matrix in Stellite 6K? Exactly what carbides are present and what is their hardness? Is that insane amount of Cr all carbided out? Are the carbides distributed in the cobalt matrix in a similar manner as they are in high alloy steels? Talonite is often referred to as having a "hard facing crystal structure" what is this and does Stellite 6K have it as well?

-Cliff
 
When we first started with Talonite(r) the question arose as to how it compared with DS alloys. At that time I offered to supply a free piece of Talonite ® to a knife maker who wanted to build two knives and run a test. At the time we couldn't get any DS alloys so we never ran the test. My offer is still open.

We think that Talonite (r) is the finest knife alloy in the world but there are others who prefer other alloys and other alloys do have definite advantages such as price. We feel that open information in head to head trials by real users is the best way to determine how good an alloy is.

Rob and I decided that we wanted to build knives that were excellent tools first, last and always. Fortunately excellent tools are often beautiful (as many of you prove repeatedly) and vice versa. If someone has a Talonite® knife we want to make sure that that knife is exactly what he needs and that he knows exactly what it will do. I keep thinking of a 20-year-old SEAL on a hostile beach, a mountain rescue on a cliff face or someone tangled in a line underwater.

Obviously Mr. Stamp has an excellent testing methodology but I am open as to who does the testing. If the forum thought it a good idea I could supply more than one piece of alloy and we can have it laser cut or water cut if you wish.

Finally as to the differences. Basically it is like giving the same piece of alloy to two knifemakers. You can get two widely differing results. You give the same chemicals to alloy companies and give them 80 years to work on it then you also get two widely different results.

In any case the only real test of any alloy is how the maker and user like it.

Tom Walz
 
We totally agree.

No one ever contacted anyone at our facility about this test!

But, our alloy has always been available and totally manufactured in the North America. We sell thousands of pounds per year to many industries!

Please contact Deloro Stellite about a test of the two alloys. We will supply samples to an agreed upon testing group or facility!
 
Tom; esteemed knifesmith who gobbles up a fair amount of my money, much to my delight (and Dark Mistress' as well), hello.

As a matter of fact, Tom Walz sent me four billets of Talonite (r) when this matter first hit the forums. The billet that I just sent you, Tom, the one with the fondle marks all over it, is the last one of those original billets! So, you see, Tom Walz DID send you a billet of Talonite (r)!! Funny how this world works, isn't it. Walt
 
Deloro Stellite; please do not be offended by my remarks, but there are some patterns of behavior into which you have fallen, perhaps without realizing it, which may irritate some posters. Or may not. I could be wrong.

However, when a technical question is asked, an answer is greatly appreciated, and, if you look up the thread on Talonite (r), you will see that Tom Walz, who is the President/CEO of Carbide Processors, answered them, one and all. Several questions are open on this thread, at least one from me, and one from Cliff that I can think of off the top of my head without scrolling back. It would be greatly appreciated if you would give us the honor of a reply concerning these questions.

Further, this is a very artificial communication medium. Anything that can bring some human touch into the communication greatly facilitates this communication, and aids information exchange and mutual respect. One such human touch is telling us just who the heck you are. 'joverton' could tell us his name, so we can call him Jim, or John, or Jack, or whatever his name is. 'joverton' is stilted and standoffish, IMHO. Further, signing a post 'Stellite Deloro' is really annoying to me at least. Who is behind that keyboard? Would the masked man remove his mask? We really are all friends here, so don't be afraid to decloak. I will even buy you a drink if you ever get to the SF Bay area.

Please keep in mind that this post is my opinion only, and you are free to ignore it. Further, speaking for the posters, if I may, we greatly appreciate your coming to the forum and we hope to learn much from your presence here.

However, please also note that I attempted to defuse the irritation your first several posts created, and suggested that 'joverton' be cut some slack, as it was obvious that he was tasked beyond his ability or alloted time. So, I have tried to help DS achieve a smooth transition into this difficult medium; in short, I am on your guy's side. BTW, sorry for the comment that your website sucks the big one (but it does).

Hoping that these suggestions meet with your approval, I remain yr. obt. svt. Walt

PS I am sure that you guys at DS have already figured this out, but supplying the esteemed knifesmith Tom Mayo with a billet of Stellite (r) at this time would be most timely and propitious, since he just received, through me, a ***FREE*** billet of Talonite (r), generously supplied by Tom Walz of Carbide Processors. Tom Mayo is crafting me a drop point hunter, and the size of the billet Tom Walz supplied him is 3/16" x 1 1/2" x 10". Tom Mayo, I am sure, will let us know just how different it is to work the two different alloys, and I would think that a non destructive side by side test of these knives could be arranged with very little effort (if any; I can see the drooling from here). WOW!! You guys sure come up with some dynamite ideas!!
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yr. obt. svt. Walt
 
OK Walt! Maybe you are right; I suppose we could take off our masks now. There are three of us - known as Deloro Stelite.

Joe Overton - General Manager
Ozzie Bell - Sales Manager
Kelly Miller - Sales Rep.

Today - it's Joe.

I would be happy to send a piece of 6K to Tom. I would really like to know a knife maker opinion of 6K. As I said before we are primarily in the commercial market and fabricate those knives ourselves.

As to the questions about properties. Unfortunately, I am an industrial engineer and have a limited knowledge of metallurgy. Our resident expert is Dr. Jim Wu. I have asked Jim to prepare a brief description of 6K and maybe he can explain the carbide issue that has been raised. I do know ( as you guys probably already know ) 6K is a hot rolled and hot sheared material similar to 6B. It has a higher carbon content which does lead to a higher carbide formation. This property, while adding life to the edge, does make the material difficult to work. -- That is about a specific as I can get.

Laser cutting does have a heat-affected zone approximately .001” deep. Before purchasing the laser, we had several customers test the laser cut material for any change in product life. None was noted. This also applies to 6B.

The forum has spurred us to reevaluate and redesign our web site. I am grateful for your comments and opinion. Even the harsh ones.

 
Captain!! Klingon bird of prey decloaking off starboard bow!! They are transmitting friendly greetings!!

Hey! Nice to meet you, Joe, Ozzie, and Kelly, and soon, Dr. Wu (do I hear Steely Dan in the background?).

May I welcome you all to full forumiteship here at the good ship BFC. Just watch out for the guy in the pink tutu (Sparky).

May I offer you my most sincere apologies for whichever forumite offered you 'harsh' comments and opinion(s). I shall see that he or they are severely chastised.

What? Why are all you people pointing your fingers at me? Jeez; sucks the big one is just a figure of speech; hardly 'harsh.' Hey, I mean I told all of you to cut Joe some slack, remember? I said that I was on their side for heaven's sakes! I mean.....
(the rest of this rambling, totally unconvincing denial of culpability, revolting in a person who holds the title of Medical Doctor, has been deleted. Mike and I will decide together later today what manner of action we will take against the reprehensible person involved. Considering the 'pink tutu' comment, I presently favor garroting, but perhaps Mike can come up with something even more satisfying. Sparks)

PS; if you haven't figured this out already, it is all, except for the genuine greetings to our new friends, a gag. Spark and Mike are safely in their own (I hope)
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beds, as it is nearly midnight here on the West Coast. Just trying to liven things up. heh heh heh

(formerly whacko) Walt

PS; topic on the next staff meeting at DS: 'Why we should never, never, even THINK about joining a forum ever again!'
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WW
 
ok...im game....my address is tom mayo, 67420 alahaka st, waialua, hawaii, 96791. I would request a piece at least .155 thick and not more than .187 (rough figures- i dont really care as long as its not too thin and not a lot thicker than 3/16s".) one inch wide by 8.75 inches long (9 is fine too) I will be glad to make the knife for the test. sincerely.......tm ....up late after a long day. and by the way...if you want...i think mike and spark would give you your own forum if you want one.........
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hey walt, are you still up....you know when it says whatever time it does on the post..its really only 11 pm here.....

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http://www.mayoknives.com


[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 03-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 03-05-2000).]
 
Yeah, Tom, it is still sort of early here, but did YOU have to chase your 8 yo around all day, and take him to baseball practice? Huh, huh??
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Walt
 
i thought we were all crazy. lol. anyway, if you guys can afford it, how about sending stellite to knifemakers, at cost. so that they can see if they like it. say 12"? stellite is very expensive, that's why i haven't tried it out, but if i could get some at cost to try out i may buy more, at regular price. can it be cut with a plasma torch?
 
Walt and Deloro,

I guess it's time for me to be the one to uncloak. I should have posted at the beginning.

I've been continually grinding Stellite 6K for about 12 years. I love it.

The most prolific maker using 6K is listed in Knives 2000, page 138-139. I figure I'm probably #2.

I've ground blades from both Stellite 6K and 6Bh (Talonite) on the same day. With 3M Regalloy ceramic belts, there is very little difference. 6K may be just a touch harder to grind. About like CPM 440V and 420V.

Stellite comes flat and true, with a decent surface finish. When you do folders, that's money in the bank. Some of the 6Bh (Talonite) I've used was .030 thicker on one end than the other, in a 12 inch piece. Took a while on the surface grinder to true it up.

Both materials can be surface ground. I hot glue or super glue it to a steel precision 3/4" plate and grind with it mounted on a 45 degree angle on the magnetic chuck. I've found the Norton 39C green wheel works best.

I feel that both materials make great blades. I'll probably build about the same kumber of knives out of each this year. I just prefer Stellite 6K, but then I prefer CPM 420V but make blades out of many other stainless steels and tool/carbon steels. The customer rules, as long it's a quality material.

I've never had a 6K or 6Bh blade come back, that I can recall. That's not bad since I make working knives. Maybe it's because I explain what it will do and what it won't do.

Neither are the magic materials. I'm still looking for that. It does cut well, for a long time, and it won't rust. That's two pretty good points in it's favor. Expense of both materials is their downfall, though.

If you are a knifemaker, try to grind both and offer them to your customers. Same thing goes for the other stainless steels and carbon/tool steels. Widens the possibilities.

Okay, I got my helmet and flak jacket on and am standing by. I have dreams of a peeing contest coming on.

Ah, never mind. Wrong war.

This is kinda like the proverbial butthole, er, opinion. Everybody has one, this is just mine, and I've used both for a while.

 
Kit has spoken about this subject to me privately as well. His comments to me were in somewhat more detail, but the basics have been covered here, with one exception.

The availability issue has been a concern with Stellite (r) according to Kit (although I didn't mention him by name), as I noted in my post of 2-16 begging for some slack for poor 'joverton,' now known as 'Joe':

Further, although no one has mentioned this, one well known knifemaker who has used Stellite (r) for at least a decade has expressed his opinion to me that the real problem with Stellite (r) is AVAILABILITY, not price. Would you kindly address this issue, sir?


Of course, if you ask Tom Mayo, he will tell you that he has trouble getting Talonite (r). To be fair, not all posters feel as Tom does. Jake Evans posted on 2-20:

You've sure got that right Tom, in the 10 days we've been waiting for these turkeys to quote a price, a guy could have HAD Talonite from Rob.
Jake

Perhaps it would behoove each contender for our money (knifemaker and consumer alike) to address the issue of availability of their product.

Further, DS has admitted candidly that they have, in the past, made doing business with them difficult, and gave specifics in an e-mail to me. Since DS now seems to be interested in responding to the demand for their product, and becoming a more consumer driven company (my words, not theirs), would you at DS mind detailing the manner in which you have resolved these issues?

The issue of irregularity of Talonite (r) billets is news to me, although I do seem to remember Rob saying once that he got a billet of Talonite which was warped, and had to get a replacement. Perhaps Tom Walz would be kind enough to comment on this concern.

So there you have it: some new issues to have answered, some old ones which have yet to be answered, and several pertinent technical questions for which we await Dr. Wu's answers.

I would suggest politely that you exercise diligence and be thorough in your responses(there is, after all a certain retired dilletante who keeps scrolling over this whole thread looking for unanswered questions). After all, you came here, to a forum composed of most of the world's best knife makers. You do have a fair amount of business at stake. For example, a well known knifemaker
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said this to me in an e-mail:

I took 7 Stellite folders to the Las Vegas Classic Knife show and they were the first to go. 6 of them went to previous 6k customers.

Heck, even I, the dilletante, own a Stellite knife, so I have been a customer of yours.

I am an old ER doc, and am happy if people just refrain from spitting at me. However, many of the forumites are rather important people who are used to being treated respectfully.

One last item, with the size of my prostate, I must respectfully decline to engage in any micturation contests.

So there you have it. HAPPY MONDAY!!!!

Walt Welch MD (RETIRED!!!)

PS; Kit; if you decrease and stop power to a cloaking device, you 'decloak.'
'Uncloaking' was what got BillyBobJoeDan in all that trouble with the trenchcoat and the schoolyard.
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WW
 
Walt, Kit, Everybody

Talonite is / was first and always an alloy designed to perform well. It comes out of industrial applications where 6k wasn't considered good enough. The irregular surface is due to the rolling which gives it a lot of its strength and performance. The wavy surface occurs naturally as part of the rolling. The opinion of the manufacturer is that TaloniteÒ is no worse than 6k alloys as far as a wavy surface.

This, however, is not what Kit Carson says. Quite honestly I am looking forward to the comparison tests. If 6k is demonstrably better then we can go back to the manufacturer and tell them somebody does it better than they do. That does get them excited. To go on official record I have not said that Kit Carson is wrong or that I disagree with him. Personally I would bet on Kit Carson being right because: 1. He is the customer so his opinion is all that counts, 2. He works with an alloy in a way the manufacturer does not. 3. He is an excellent knife maker and 4. He is very careful about the promises he makes and the opinions he gives.

It would really help if someone could quantify a way to describe a rolling surface. It is always nicer to discuss number than to argue opinions.

If we could, we would really like Talonite to have all the advantages it does plus be perfectly flat and smooth and be able to take a polish so bright that you could read a watch from across the room.

Tom

 
well, i for one have to disagree with kit, not to start an arguement...but because i dont agree....I feel talonite is a lot easier to grind, and for the average person a lot easier to sharpen....I bought 15 pounds of 6k early on from Deloro, and i used it all....It seems a lot harder to grind to me....but that is a personal opinion thing, not a test like some of these guys run...I also feel that 420v is a lot harder to finish that 440v....maybe im psycho, but thats my opinion. I like Kit and have no quarrel with him...just throwing my two cents in here...

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As far as the availability of Stellite alloy 6K: It is in stock. We have only had two inquiries since this debate started. If you are interested please call or email Kelly Miller 800-267-2886 ext 246 or kmiller@stellite.com

As for the tests - We will send Tom Mayo a piece of 6K to do a comparison test. I have been trying to get in touch with Tom for the past few days but have been unsuccessful. We will continue to try. Tom if you read this give me or Ozzie Bell a call (800-267-2887 ext 228) to discuss the details. Both Ozzie and I are out of the office next week.

The infamous Dr. Wu is in France this week and will return next week. I have been in contact with him about the 6K description and he has agreed to produce it.

Several of us had problems with the BladeForums site and were unable to view the postings. Was it the site or us?

Joe Overton
 
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