Strongest folding knife !

[skyhorse]

Quiet,
I'm glad we're discussing the possibility that folding knife strength can be improved. Beyond blade and handle shape nothing has changed.
Folding knife locks in general concentrate on only spine strength. I don't even think they address strength from the cutting edge direction, let alone lateral strength.

Back in the day the lock on a folding knife was basically for safety reasons and not really meant to replace a fixed blade. I guess times have changed.

 

[Berkley]

Mike,

I do have one other question, many hear seem to think that you are a knife maker.

Have you ever made a knife from start to finish with your own two hands? Or have you just done some puter work and then paid to have some lab build it for you?

FWIW, from Mike's original post (Strongest Folding Knife [?] Part 1), :

Attached are pics of 2 designs I made. Hunter and Tactical fixed blades Elmax, HT and Cryoed to 61RC. Bought Elmax from Alpha knife supply. I designed them, water-jet blanks, sent to Montana for grind and HT, Richter precision DLC. Hand made carbon slabs myself.

 

[Lee D]

You guys got me thinking now. A pocket clip and sheath "is relevant." I actually don't like my design and think I'm gonna design it the way you said. I might leave a little bit of the blade sticking out of the handle though so you can slash yourself open and need stitches. After all it would be good to have a nice gash to go along with the blister you'd get from deploying the knife. It takes a tough person to handle the "STRONGEST FOLDING KNIFE."

stitches aren't an option....it takes alotta grit to own and use the strongest folder ever

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

You're still on lateral strength?

Lock back. Axis lock.

Those are two types of locks that are not bothered by lateral stresses.

I choose not to acknowledge someone when they put the truth in front of my face. There are no other knives that focus on lateral stress. They mostly focus on spine strength. After all, if you repeat something that's wrong, over and over again, eventually it becomes right. Right?

 

[MobileFireLord]

I found strongest folding mechanism.

Joking aside, it would not sell to majority of knife purchaser unless all elements are balanced. Just because the folding joints can support semi on one end doesn't sell the knife.

I think what appeals to most of people is something like BKC Adamas. It has average of 1640 ft-lb to withstand its sleek folder. Considering availability, option to have auto, overall ergonomics, ambidextrous open& close with one hand, and it's price are hard to beat.

 

[goodeyesniper]

I've never seen a slipjoint lock fail, period.

Perry sure that's the strongest type

 

[Rhinoknives1]

FWIW, from Mike's original post (Strongest Folding Knife [?] Part 1), :

I forgot about that, so you have two knife blanks water jet cut and then had some else bevel grind and do the handles?

If you take that large blade profile of your Elmax Tactical from "Strongest Folding Knife part 1" and make that with your folding locking system I will test it for you?

 

[RedLynx]

You guys got me thinking now. A pocket clip and sheath "is relevant." I actually don't like my design and think I'm gonna design it the way you said. I might leave a little bit of the blade sticking out of the handle though so you can slash yourself open and need stitches. After all it would be good to have a nice gash to go along with the blister you'd get from deploying the knife. It takes a tough person to handle the "STRONGEST FOLDING KNIFE II." (That's my name for it BTW)

Thanks for taking the sheath question into consideration.

However your "Strongest Folding Knife II" seems a little derivative given all the other "Strongest Folding Knives" out there... I like your design but I don't really want to carry something that rides on the coattails of a tried and true design proven in the field, such as the Strongest Folding Knife I. Any chance of rethinking the name a bit?

 

[FFK]

Google lateral folding knife tests.....there're none !......wonder why ?

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Google lateral folding knife tests.....there're none !......wonder why ?

Mike,
YES! Because you haven't done the tests that you keep talking about to show us what wonderful strength your systems has.

Or it could just be that everyone else use's a pry bar if the want to go lateral!

 

[FFK]

Laurence,
I said there're in the works. My question is why are there no lateral strength test the web ?

 

[pvicenzi]

Why does a knife need lateral strength? Who cuts with the side of a blade?

 

[ev13wt]

^^ Because its a known weak point without real workarounds!

Your design looks good on spine and cutting edge direction. Its lateral and twisting force I'm concerned about. All the pressure is focused on the small locking lever pin, locking lever surface. Either the roller pin will break catastrophically or the force transmitted to the blade on the edge of the small area of the locking mechanism will, due to the short leverage involved, break the blade exactly at that point.

This is why a full tang fixed blade is always stronger. Unless the scales / handle material are extremely rigid, all twisting or lateral force is transferred throughout the entire metal without creating any stress riser points anywhere. As soon as you introduce any sort of non flexible point or area, that is where it will break or bend. So, a folder that has a semi rigid aka sort of flexible joint will probably hold up better than an ultra locked down folder of the same material.

Its the same concept when you break tiles or rip paper over a counter top. In tiles you first create a stress relief in the form of a shallow cut. Then you place the tile over a straight corner and give it a whack. It breaks off cleanly at that point. Same thing with paper over a sharp and straight table top. The edge of the table is the stress creator and the paper rips cleanly at the stress riser point.

A tile without a straight lever is much harder to break (takes much more force) as is a clean paper cut freehanded. O a 2x2 broken over a curb. Your lever is that curb.

So how do you deal with this problem? At least you have adjusted your vocabulary and approach from "replaces fixed knifes" to "a stronger folder". I'll give you that much.

 

[ev13wt]

Don't get me wrong, I really like your idea. Is seriously cool to watch in action. It just needs refinement.

 

[FFK]

The crossectional angled mating surface of blade tang and handle tang join to make knife full tang like. It will twist to some degree like a full tang knife. Obviously it's not but I believe it's as close as you can get. The small cross pin that holds thumb lever to pivot pin is 440C HT to 56-58 RC
A 440C blade .180" thick(grind material removed)blade HT to 58-60RC subjected to side loading(lateral) will have permanent deformation at around 250Lbs. The mechanism is uneffected at that level of side load. Again, the blade is the weak link, not the FFK mechanism.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Laurence,
I said there're in the works. My question is why are there no lateral strength test the web ?

Mike,
Just like i stated, It's not meant to pry or be used Laterally. It's a knife, not a pry bar or a hatchet or a Duck or anything else. That's why you might not be finding these tests.
I will gladly wait to see your new and improved knife.

 

[DrFish]

I think the problem here is that you haven't clearly demonstrated the problem that you're trying to solve.

The blade is the weak link in the system. Have you even done comparative testing to determine the lateral strength of various conventional folding knives. Not flea market specials, standard quality folding knives with well built conventional pivots.

Unless you can demonstrate that the pivot and locking mechanism is the limiting factor in lateral strength, then there is absolutely no purpose in creating a stronger mechanism, especially one that has significant usage and ergonomic downsides.

I have a very hard time believing that under lateral stress you will destroy the pivot of a Sebenza (for example) before the blade outright snaps in two.

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

"It's a knife, not a pry bar or a hatchet or a Duck or anything else."

Okay, I lol'd at that one. Sig line material right there.

 

[straitr]

Google lateral folding knife tests.....there're none !......wonder why ?

Laurence,
I said there're in the works. My question is why are there no lateral strength test the web ?

Because all we talk about on BladeForums is lock strength? /sarcasm

Lock strength is the paramount concern and benchmark for folders, so obviously, that's what's marketed. Manufacturers make videos to show people what they want to see, aka marketing, then buyers mimic or elaborate those tests at home and make their own videos for posterity.

It's the same reason you see prying videos for fixed blades, it's the perceived measure of toughness.

To think the likes of ZT, Spyderco, Benchmade, Emerson, Strider, and even companies like Victorinox have never considered and test lateral stability, is folly. At the very least, it's tested to reveal design flaws that would lead to potential lawsuits, which I'm sure is a big concern to most successful knife manufacturers.

I say this with regards to hopefully seeing you succeed with this design.... You need to put down the keyboard and find someone with PR experience, because your delusions of grandeur are sucking the potential and profit out of your design here.

 

[RevDevil]

Google lateral folding knife tests.....there're none !......wonder why ?

Well, if you need to ask, probably the same reason that osteopathic physicians don't measure the lateral movement of your knee. It's not exactly supposed to bend that way. If it were, then we'd all be sporting a 360 degree swivel socket similar to the hip and shoulder.