"Super-steels"?

[timberweasel]

Yes we have come a very long way from living in caves and beating meat off of bones with sticks.

But then take the way some people think we would still be doing it today if everyone thought the same way over the years.

I started my first year of university with a word processor... an electric typewriter with a small LCD screen and 3.5" floppy drive. State of the Ark technology now! Ha!

 

[Ankerson]

I started my first year of university with a word processor... an electric typewriter with a small LCD screen and 3.5" floppy drive. State of the Ark technology now! Ha!

I didn't even have that. LOL

Just a Typewriter.

 

[timberweasel]

Bringing the subject back to knives, it's really quite astonishing to me to have a nice thin ground blade in a "super-steel" (for example: something like a ZDP-189 with HRC around 67--even that is passe now) that I literally do not have to sharpen with regular use. A bit o' stropping and I'm good to go. My knives don't see many rigorous cutting chores, to be honest...

 

[GatorFlash1]

I'm not really a steel aficionado, but I would say M-4 I personally so far love the stuff. Seems to hold an edge well, sharpen pretty easily. Gets wicked sharp. That's why for the price I'd say the benchmade 810 contego is one of the best buys out there. Interested to here on S30v but personally I don't get it? I mean I have several knives with S and I think it can be a little tough to sharpen, and very difficult to get that hair popping sharpness of many other steels. But that's just my experience with it interested to see what others think.

I have a bunch of knives and would say it isn't so much the steel as it is as to how it is tempered and the overall quality of knife construction that makes me happy. Here is some info that may be of value.

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

 

[Ankerson]

Bringing the subject back to knives, it's really quite astonishing to me to have a nice thin ground blade in a "super-steel" (for example: something like a ZDP-189 with HRC around 67--even that is passe now) that I literally do not have to sharpen with regular use. A bit o' stropping and I'm good to go. My knives don't see many rigorous cutting chores, to be honest...

Yes, it's nice NOT to have to sharpen everyday or many times a day like I used to have to back when I was younger. :thumbup:

 

[RX-79G]

It's just the same old argument that older is all that is needed etc that seems to come up quite often.

So if we apply that same basic logic to everything across the board from the beginning.....

Well sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

Maybe - if the topic wasn't something as antiquarian as a steel knife. Technology has marched on, and we have better ways of cutting stuff than an unmechanized steel knife.

I know what you're saying, but it is a little like arguing that spear technology would really come along if we started using carbon fiber hafts. We don't need carbon fiber haft spears because modern people have better ways of launching projectiles. Super steels are neato, but applying them to an ancient tool like a knife that requires no real advances doesn't really compare to the overall march of technology.

Modern metallurgy does wonders for jet engine efficiency and other super important things - like golf clubs.


Other things don't necessarily become drastically improved by innovation because they are already limited by their basic definition. I once read something by an engineer who worked at Harley Davidson. He was told to design any sort of exhaust he wanted - as long as it was a straight pipe.

 

[timberweasel]

Jim's a steel junkie though, RX. That's his passion, he's very knowledgeable, and there's no two ways about it. Even though the nuances of modern steels are lost on a guy like me, he can tell the difference.

I think he was only pointing out that 'the good ol' days' of cutlery steel is highly romanticised. I was only trying to explain why I'm impressed by steels that are considered pedestrian by knife-nut standards (VG-10? wow!) We arrived at a good place. No need to incite argument.

-Brett

 

[NJBillK]

It is amazing that engineers can continue to make "better" steel.

But, for a knife, is it really better? The trade-off is not worth it.

I like my knife to perform, and then expect to (easily) sharpen it. Not possible with the "Super" stuff.

If you were dropped in a jungle in the middle of nowhere, what steel would you want??? (and you didn't have your diamond hones with you).

Trade-Off. That is the key. Not worth it IMHO.

Eric

Wow! Lots of opinion here, nothing wrong with that, But, it may not be what the OP would agree with nor answer his question.

I personally Loved my m390 710-1401, s110v Manix 2, and I am looking forward to a m4 710 and minigrip if I can find one of those...
I am not worried about being dropped into a jungle, not having my diamond stones or my strops at my house, and I don't like having a nagging thought in my head that if I have to cut open an extra 40 cases of pork consisting of double walled cardboard, that I will have to find a box cutter halfway through...

Those trade offs that you mention equate peace of mind for me. I will trade Many things (an extra 15-45 mins sharpening/re profiling a new knife being one of them) for the sheer fact that I won't have to worry about my edge making it through the day.
I currently carry a DPx heat (sleipner) a good edc and can hold an edge at a fine angle without the need for a steep micro bevel
a GEC Sodbuster in 01 tool steel
a (New) JK Knives USK, 01 tool steel.
While not being a super steel, 01 can be a Great steel and I am finding it hard to beat.
While it may die, I often carry those 3 listed daily. If they all die, then I have more to worry about than my edges, such as finding a bed...

 

[Ankerson]

Jim's a steel junkie though, RX. That's his passion, he's very knowledgeable, and there's no two ways about it. Even though the nuances of modern steels are lost on a guy like me, he can tell the difference.

I think he was only pointing out that 'the good ol' days' of cutlery steel is highly romanticised. I was only trying to explain why I'm impressed by steels that are considered pedestrian by knife-nut standards (VG-10? wow!) We arrived at a good place. No need to incite argument.

-Brett

I grew up using those steels they are talking about..

I also remember going from punch cards to 5 1/4" floppies and using i286 Computers, but that doesn't mean I would even think about going back to those days.

 

[The Mastiff]

I hate tropical jungles and will be happy if I never have to enter one again much less survive in one. I'd take Alpine, arctic, even desert over the jungle. Why survival questions involve jungles is beyond me. As a thick bodied person of European descent Jungles aren't for me. Living in NC has been tough enough for me.

I have done exercises in mostly cold or alpine conditions and really fit there better.

For those conditions I'll prefer 3v, as well as L6 if possible but honestly I'll use whatever I'm fortunate enough to get.

Marine/tropical salt water stuff might have me choosing something like H1 but other than that first choice is 3V.

 

[Ankerson]

I hate tropical jungles and will be happy if I never have to enter one again much less survive in one. I'd take Alpine, arctic, even desert over the jungle. Why survival questions involve jungles is beyond me. As a thick bodied person of European descent Jungles aren't for me. Living in NC has been tough enough for me.

I have done exercises in mostly cold or alpine conditions and really fit there better.

For those conditions I'll prefer 3v, as well as L6 if possible but honestly I'll use whatever I'm fortunate enough to get.

Marine/tropical salt water stuff might have me choosing something like H1 but other than that first choice is 3V.

I hear you Joe and agree, I hate tropical Jungles too, nothing really good about them that I can think of and having spent more than my fair share of time in them I can say I will never step foot in one again.

I think people are watching way too much TV and or movies and buying into a theme that just isn't realistic unless they are in the Military and happen to get sent into that type of situation.

That or they are very wealthy and can afford to go on Safari or something to that effect.

That said i would rather spend the rest of my time in Antarctica than spend one day in the Jungle ever again.

 

[sodak]

My current favorites are CPM 3V, 10V, and M4, depending on the task. I enjoy using steels that don't require frequent sharpening, and when they do get dull, sharpen up much quicker than "older" steels, with or without diamonds. That seems counter intuitive to a lot of people, but I actually use these knives heavily, and base my opinion on this.

D2 used to be one of my favorites, and I still like it. But, 3V will do everything better except resist rust, and sharpen up faster. So D2 is more for fun, but 3V is the first that I reach for. While I still like D2, I gotta be honest about 3V.

It's too bad that these kinds of conversations usually degrade into a "tastes great, less filling" mode. What I really would love to see are some traditional designs with new steels that don't cost an arm and a leg....

I agree with you jungle haters, I lived on Okinawa for 2 years, that was enough for me...

 

[Sunyata]

I like them.

The hard to sharpen argument doesn't make sense as there are easily available options available which people also seem averse to buying due to fear of advancing tech.



Plus, who only carries one knife when there is a possibility of being trapped in a jungle? I carry multiple knives on a daily basis and I live in the suburbs.

 

[magnumb]

I agree with you jungle haters, I lived on Okinawa for 2 years, that was enough for me...[/QUOTE]


Yep.....Kin Blue Beach was perhaps 'The Rocks' only saving grace.....IMHO.

 

[Ankerson]

Nothing quite like it, the bugs, the heat, raining all the time, the mud, the wildlife....

The last thing I ever thought about was what knife I was carrying.

 

[gosuto]

I've owned a decent amount of super steels and as much as I love M-4 and the like, my two favorite steels are CPM-D2 and CPM-154

 

[RBid]

I think people are watching way too much TV and or movies and buying into a theme that just isn't realistic unless they are in the Military and happen to get sent into that type of situation.

Soooo, JUUUUUST because I live in Portland, OR and don't fly helicopters, I'm not at risk to crash a helicopter into a drug cartel's South American operation and require an ESEE 5 to cut my way out?! Don't you watch Dual Survival? I need to order a Tom Brown Tracker and learn to make a desalinator in case I get into a survival situation and can't find water!... in... Oregon...

Yeah. You actually make a great point.

 

[EDCanAdamas]

What is a "Super Steel" seems comparative in real life. 154CM or even 420HC may as well be "Super Steel" when compared to a flea-market special from Pakistan or the steel Gerber makes from recycled Fiskars scissors.

 

[Ankerson]

Soooo, JUUUUUST because I live in Portland, OR and don't fly helicopters, I'm not at risk to crash a helicopter into a drug cartel's South American operation and require an ESEE 5 to cut my way out?! Don't you watch Dual Survival? I need to order a Tom Brown Tracker and learn to make a desalinator in case I get into a survival situation and can't find water!... in... Oregon...

Yeah. You actually make a great point.

Yeah. LOL

In a real life situation like say a plane goes down people aren't going to have their knives or other toys anyway, same with MOST Cruise Ships.

So unless people actually live in a Jungle environment it's highly unlikely they would ever see that type of situation and have their knives with them, if they even survive the crash and that would be doubtful.

Like I said, too much TV or movies.

In an Arctic environment even if they did happen to survive the crash they would freeze to death or die from exposure most likely, thinking -25 F or less depending.

Crash in the Mountains someplace in an airliner, forget about it.....

In the Tundra Someplace, if they survive the crash and last long enough for the rescue team to reach them before dying from exposure or worse.

Airliners don't do well in crashes, survival rates aren't in peoples favor just from the crash alone.

 

[RBid]

Yeah. LOL

In a real life situation like say a plane goes down people aren't going to have their knives or other toys anyway, same with MOST Cruise Ships.

So unless people actually live in a Jungle environment it's highly unlikely they would ever see that type of situation and have their knives with them, if they even survive the crash and that would be doubtful.

Like I said, too much TV or movies.

In an Arctic environment even if they did happen to survive the crash they would freeze to death or die from exposure most likely, thinking -25 F or less depending.

Indeed.

I used to be in the gun business. I can't begin to explain the incredible disconnects I've run into. It's the same inability to connect their personal reality to the way in which disaster may play out in their lives. Lots of out of shape people talking about bugging out with 5 guns and 2,000-10,000 rounds for each, with zero training, saying they're "designated marksman" for a survival group.

Whether or not a person believes in certain possibilities, it should be easily understood that certain details just don't fit together.