"Super-steels"?

[Ankerson]

Indeed.

I used to be in the gun business. I can't begin to explain the incredible disconnects I've run into. It's the same inability to connect their personal reality to the way in which disaster may play out in their lives. Lots of out of shape people talking about bugging out with 5 guns and 2,000-10,000 rounds for each, with zero training, saying they're "designated marksman" for a survival group.

Whether or not a person believes in certain possibilities, it should be easily understood that certain details just don't fit together.

Survival groups?

Who says they would be in the percentage that would still be alive in the 1st place?

Something like a Pandemic or Nuclear and or Biological War.

If they live within 100 miles of any major population or military target they are screwed anyway.

Unless they live someplace like the North Pole or Antarctica and that's highly unlikely.

If anyone hasn't seen the Movie The Stand that's the most realistic movie ever made as to what would happen in a Pandemic in the US, the Pandemic part of it anyway and that's what makes it so frightening.

Either one would be immune or not, roll of the dice more than anything else.

So I tend to have my own opinions on what the survival rates and percentages would be on a more realistic level based on what my job was in the Military.

But then those things people buy are interesting to read about.

 

[RBid]

Survival groups?

Who says they would be in the percentage that would still be alive in the 1st place?

Something like a Pandemic or Nuclear and or Biological War.

If they live within 100 miles of any major population or military target they are screwed anyway.

Unless they live someplace like the North Pole or Antarctica and that's highly unlikely.

If anyone hasn't seen the Movie The Stand that's the most realistic movie ever made as to what would happen in a Pandemic in the US, the Pandemic part of it anyway and that's what makes it so frightening.

Either one would be immune or not, roll of the dice more than anything else.

So I tend to have my own opinions on what the survival rates and percentages would be on a more realistic level based on what my job was in the Military.

But then those things people buy are interesting to read about.

As with many things, the solution seems to be, "buy stuff" instead of "give it some thought". That's obviously what inspired my earlier comments here, as well.

 

[RX-79G]

Survival groups?

Who says they would be in the percentage that would still be alive in the 1st place?

Something like a Pandemic or Nuclear and or Biological War.

If they live within 100 miles of any major population or military target they are screwed anyway.

Unless they live someplace like the North Pole or Antarctica and that's highly unlikely.

If anyone hasn't seen the Movie The Stand that's the most realistic movie ever made as to what would happen in a Pandemic in the US, the Pandemic part of it anyway and that's what makes it so frightening.

Either one would be immune or not, roll of the dice more than anything else.

So I tend to have my own opinions on what the survival rates and percentages would be on a more realistic level based on what my job was in the Military.

But then those things people buy are interesting to read about.

I doubt that any predictions about what widespread disaster will look like or what will cause it are ever accurate. It isn't like anyone is really in the business of disaster preparedness for individuals and is running models on Cray super computers. Government departments like FEMA work under the assumption that government still exists.

A good example of a disaster that doesn't fit - but may make good use of a tough knife - is the various tsunamis that have hit resort areas. A vacationer that happens to have brought a decent knife and has it with him when everything goes to crap might really use it quite a bit in the days until organized help arrives. Whether it is a 3V knife that makes it through 3 days of use without needing sharpening or an AUS8 knife that is sharpened on toilet tanks - it will help either way.

Airline crashes are another. Your knife will be in the hold of the plane, and mighty useful. There have been more than a few crashes where survivors spent a long time by themselves in climates they didn't expect.


I think people who want to rely on a hard to sharpen knife should keep it with some sort of tiny, portable diamond sharpener. This solves every problem associated with those steels, and is not a difficult or expensive solution.

 

[singularity35]

Typhoon Haiyan brought some new perspectives to us guys in the Philippines.

 

[GatorFlash1]

Fifty years from now I predict that the laser/Gamma-type knives that surgeons use today will be sold in Wal-Mart replacing most metal alloy blades.

They will be small, with automatic adjustments that measure the length of the cutting beam and the power it takes to sever the item being cut. Not only that but they will have a beam splitter so you can cut an apple or tomato into pieces with one swipe. It won't rust or corrode either.

In the meantime we can argue what is the best alloy for knife blades.


http://neurosciences.uvahealth.com/services/treatments/gamma-knife?gclid=COHN9avnrMQCFehj7AodLBAAiQ

 

[JackstrawIII]

From what I've seen, "super steel" is a made up marketing term. Those of you who have said that it refers to powdered metal steels are closest to the mark because that's often how the phrase is used, but "super steel" is not an official industry term with a set definition. Anyone can call any steel a super steel if they want. It means nothing.

 

[snippy]

I guess my comment about being dropped in the jungle was pretty dumb - not going to happen to me either! And you guys have opened my mind again, so thanks.

I'm going to find my little S35VN blade and carry it and see how long I go before I need to sharpen it. Never really gave it the proper test that makes these steels worth it.

Eric (still learning!)

 

[Ankerson]

I doubt that any predictions about what widespread disaster will look like or what will cause it are ever accurate. It isn't like anyone is really in the business of disaster preparedness for individuals and is running models on Cray super computers. Government departments like FEMA work under the assumption that government still exists.

Actually they do, they have to run different scenarios of what might happen.

A good example of a disaster that doesn't fit - but may make good use of a tough knife - is the various tsunamis that have hit resort areas. A vacationer that happens to have brought a decent knife and has it with him when everything goes to crap might really use it quite a bit in the days until organized help arrives. Whether it is a 3V knife that makes it through 3 days of use without needing sharpening or an AUS8 knife that is sharpened on toilet tanks - it will help either way.

Yeah it happened and we all know how that went.

Airline crashes are another. Your knife will be in the hold of the plane, and mighty useful. There have been more than a few crashes where survivors spent a long time by themselves in climates they didn't expect.

VERY FEW......

That's if the plane holds together (Unlikely) and isn't in pieces spread over a mile or more and the few people who might happen to still be breathing aren't too injured to go and look for things like that one bag with the supposed knife in it. That's if the person who packed it is still alive to tell someone else it's there.

I think people who want to rely on a hard to sharpen knife should keep it with some sort of tiny, portable diamond sharpener. This solves every problem associated with those steels, and is not a difficult or expensive solution.

A ceramic rod or diamond works across the board.

 

[Sunyata]

I guess my comment about being dropped in the jungle was pretty dumb - not going to happen to me either! And you guys have opened my mind again, so thanks.

I'm going to find my little S35VN blade and carry it and see how long I go before I need to sharpen it. Never really gave it the proper test that makes these steels worth it.

Eric (still learning!)

I had heard a lot of mixed reviews on CRK S35VN. When I got my Sebenza I stropped it and I've been putting a solid 3 months of work on it. It's holding up pretty damned well

 

[uofaengr]

Lots of out of shape people talking about bugging out with 5 guns and 2,000-10,000 rounds for each, with zero training, saying they're "designated marksman" for a survival group.

Lol, I love this post. Pretty much what I see on most every gun channel on YouTube.

 

[jprime84]

The more "Super" a steel is, the more time it gets to be fondled on the couch, going on fashion shoots in the woods, or cutting mundane food next to a bottle of single malt and a Rolex. When the new "Super" steel is released, the older less than super steel is put away in the safe for a future sale. Now if the "Super" steel is bought by a brave individual, it may get to cut boxes, strips of paper or even some rope....

I think you just described a large amount of this forum.

 

[Big Chris]

The steels that are termed "Super Steels" is all that I use, both in daily carry and chores and in my knife making.
I have not made a knife from O1 or another "carbon steel" in over a year. I will occasionally use an O1 knife I made years ago just to remind me why I don't care for it any more.
If you use your knife with intelligence, paying attention to what and how you are cutting and what the edge will contact after it passes through the medium being cut, that 10V knife at 64.5 or 65 Rc will not be difficult to sharpen at all. At that point a good compound rubbed into your belt or a strop in your pack will get the job done. If there is a small imperfection in the edge that needs taken care of a little work with a 600 grit SC or Diamond stone will cure all. However, use that same knife with abandon like a caveman chopping, slashing, and cutting with no regard and there will be chips and deflections that will need to be cleaned up, regardless of steel type. I will choose PSF 27, 3V, 4V, 10V, or S90V, over any steel if given the option. I would pick and choose the steel to match the knife type between those 5 listed. Only 3V or 4V would I choose to use for anything from 8" to 18" without question. I think the problem with knife users today is that they are taking what they see on tv to be too much reality. They would rather have a knife that has very poor edge geometry and cutting ability that can chop a car in half, over something that is designed to do what a knife should do; CUT with efficiency.

I have reground folders and fixed blades with edges that were over .050" thick. I have a hatchet and a full size axe with better edge geometry.

Super Steels like 3V let you have the best of everything in one package. Great toughness, great edge holding, and decent stain resistance all in a single tool that can hold thinner edges through rough use. That, in my mind, is what makes them "Super".

 

[jac_solar]

I was just wondering what the super steels, that are generally referred to as super steels, are -- like, S110V, ZDP-189, 3V are often referred to as super steels whenever they are discussed, and people don't argue against anyone who defines them as super steels -- they just accept that they are referred to as super steels -- as opposed to, for example, 440C, which is not referred to as a super steel.

So, what other types are there? There's ZDP-189, S110V, 3V, etc. Is 10V considered a super steel, along the lines of ZDP-189?

 

[marthinus]

I was just wondering what the super steels, that are generally referred to as super steels, are -- like, S110V, ZDP-189, 3V are often referred to as super steels whenever they are discussed, and people don't argue against anyone who defines them as super steels -- they just accept that they are referred to as super steels -- as opposed to, for example, 440C, which is not referred to as a super steel.

So, what other types are there? There's ZDP-189, S110V, 3V, etc. Is 10V considered a super steel, along the lines of ZDP-189?

Just my opinion as stated before.

A super steel IMO has to do with technology (current king of the crop is powdered metallurgy), purity of the alloy produced etc.

There are numerous ways of producing powdered steels. Just a quick overview of it is covered by wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_metallurgy#Powder_production_techniques

There are also super steels using Nitrogen. These steels have a generally higher price because of the purity that is involved and the technology used to get nitrogen into the composition. These include Nitrobe-77, Vanax, Cronidur 30 (aka ZiFiNit aka LC200N).

Rather than looking for a list of super steels understand the technology involved in producing an alloy IMO. Thats what makes it super IMO.

 

[RX-79G]

Just my opinion as stated before.

A super steel IMO has to do with technology (current king of the crop is powdered metallurgy), purity of the alloy produced etc.

There are numerous ways of producing powdered steels. Just a quick overview of it is covered by wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_metallurgy#Powder_production_techniques

There are also super steels using Nitrogen. These steels have a generally higher price because of the purity that is involved and the technology used to get nitrogen into the composition. These include Nitrobe-77, Vanax, Cronidur 30 (aka ZiFiNit aka LC200N).

Rather than looking for a list of super steels understand the technology involved in producing an alloy IMO. Thats what makes it super IMO.

That is one (actually, two) way(s) of defining them - but it isn't a very good way of looking for them. The H1 Spyderco uses is nitrogen based, but no one seems to regard it as a super steel. I don't know if anyone thinks CPM D2 is a super steel, either.

I don't see what defining the category by origin helps with either identifying or understanding the use or characteristics of these steels. And as soon as a steel comes out that fits the category without being PM or N2 based, there goes that theory.

 

[hank_rearden]

Typhoon Haiyan brought some new perspectives to us guys in the Philippines.

now i understand why there seems to be a limit on the size of cities in the visayas, especially the on the eastern side.

in a SHTF sitation like haiyan, the first thing you and your neighbors have to jury-rig is a hand-power water well drill (kazusabori drill).

 

[hank_rearden]

but swerving back to the topic, i understand "super steel" to be anything that can outperform ordinary carbon tool or spring steel. 440c and 154cm were around way back (60s?) and their performance is certainly super steel class (isn't it?)

 

[marthinus]

That is one (actually, two) way(s) of defining them - but it isn't a very good way of looking for them. The H1 Spyderco uses is nitrogen based, but no one seems to regard it as a super steel. I don't know if anyone thinks CPM D2 is a super steel, either.

I don't see what defining the category by origin helps with either identifying or understanding the use or characteristics of these steels. And as soon as a steel comes out that fits the category without being PM or N2 based, there goes that theory.

The Nitrogen steels I mentioned is PM grade as well. So we are down to one way of defining them. PM grade.

PM offers quite a few advantages over conventional ingot for the user and maker.

H-1 I personally consider a super steel but it is a different beast all together and not really available to knife makers.

As I stated. Just my two cents.

 

[singularity35]

now i understand why there seems to be a limit on the size of cities in the visayas, especially the on the eastern side.

in a SHTF sitation like haiyan, the first thing you and your neighbors have to jury-rig is a hand-power water well drill (kazusabori drill).

Exactly. I was really dumbfounded by the government's airlifting 500ml water bottles for more than a week when there were deep well drilling teams in the surrounding areas. Hand powered drilling is generally what's used here for household shallow or even deep wells. I'm actually familiar with that since it's commonplace here.

 

[hank_rearden]

^
that set-up (in africa?) is rather extravagant. a kazusabori can be set up with your drilling pipe, several thick rubber sheets, and three stout bamboo poles lashed together with rope or wire. oh yes, you need mud to lubricate the drill rod.