Surgical Black Arkansas - Translucent Arkansas - Question I Have Both Now

Rich, I liked your photo so much that I decided to follow your posting with a photo of my Arkansas stones. The two small 2X4" stones are Norton Black 1979 and a Translucent, the 2X6" is a Washita the twin grit 2X8" is a white soft and black and the large is a 4X8" Tranlucent. You don't see this size much any more. DM
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Rip. I posted the boxes here to show your correct as to how Norton markets their Arkansas stones. That said I've compared my stones to others with a 'stated' Translucent Arkansas purchased stone and mine looks
hooo so close to theirs. I had all 5 grades at one time but gave away the hard white in a 2X8". As stated prior, quality and finish vary on these natural stones. Purchase from a reputable dealer. DM
 
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Awesome, those look like some well loved stones. I feel this addiction to stones growing and I never expected this. I guess because I am learning more about them it makes them so much more interesting and each one really has its own character.
 
Yes, their own character indeed. Notice my Translucent has the pink veins in it like yours. The smaller Translucent has veins as well but they're crystal clear. DM
 
David Martin said:
Pepper, This is interesting. I posted 2yrs. ago here something very similiar about noticing some improvement after stroking some while my S30V blade on my black Arkansas. At that time some here questioned my findings that this was even possible as S30V contains vanadium and vanadium carbides are very hard, higher in hardness than the Arkansas stone. Which I could see this point. Yet, the noticed improvement was present. What might be occuring is the Arkansas polished what it could at that steels edge allowing us to notice 'some' improvement but still couldn't do much to the vanadium carbides. I'm no metallurgist but something happened. So, good to see others realize these stones are still useful. Plus, some chilling helped. DM
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DM, That's interseting, I haven't searched the forum but have noticed these stones don't come up much in conversation.
I was really surprised by my results given the Vanadium content, pleasantly so however. I have been able to take a high vanadium S30V blade, from the extra fine DMT that will shave hair no problem and move over to the translucent stone, with oil, and come off popping, tree topping and whittling...just a dramatic difference. The other thing I really like about these stones is the Feedback I get. I can 'feel' the facet perfectly when I am working on this stone unlike any diamond plate I have.


richstag said:
Thanks guys for the ongoing info. I also spoke with a very knowledgeable and extremely helpful lady from Dan's. I am very happy with what I have and feel like I have a much better understanding of these stones after the help in here especially from you Dave. I am keeping with what I have.

One thing I understand even better that you tried to explain to me Dave is that they may have the same grit size but the compactness will vary. Makes a lot of sense. Also, she confirmed the black is finer then translucent in finishing quality. Translucent is finer in the way that it is very hard to manufacture a flawless stone in the large bench sizes. She explained everything thoroughly for about 30 minutes. Great people at Dan's for sure!

Kevin
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Rich,
I too have had great conversations with the folks at Dan's, just really nice knowledgable people.
 
Pepper, Thats off of your Translucent. I added diamond slurry to mine and the cutting abilities improved 25%. I think sometime back I commented on the photo of you Border Collie. I still like your Avatar photo a good snap. DM
 
DM, yes that is off of my Translucent. I hadn't thought of adding a diamond slurry, good idea.
Thanks for the complement on the Avatar photo of 'Pepper' and yes, if I recall correctly, it was over in the 'Buck' forum where it came up quite some time ago, good memory.
 
richstag said:
Awesome, those look like some well loved stones. I feel this addiction to stones growing and I never expected this. I guess because I am learning more about them it makes them so much more interesting and each one really has its own character.
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I agree - nice looking stones David! And yours too, Kevin!

This thread has been very interesting. Thank you to all who have contributed! :thumbup:

For routine maintenance I use three things: a Norton India combo stone, a sweet little stone that David Martin gifted to me (I can't remember its' composition David - help me out ..... it's smooth as glass), and a leather strop. I can stop after any of the three and shave hair & push cut paper. That's all I need (and I'll remain convinced of that). However .....

After reading through this thread, googling "arkansas stone" and somewhat educating myself reading through some blogs, and going to Dan's and Hall's sites, and coming back to this thread multiple times ..... I decided I needed to do some (un)scientific research and put some steel to new stone. I've got a soft arkansas and a black surgical arkansas on the way. Still debating on the Translucent.

At any rate, great thread you've started here Kevin - I've learned a lot about arkansas stones and find it very interesting - can't wait to see and feel the character on the particular stones I have coming.
 
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Keith, So, good to see you chime in here. The stone I sent you was a early Norton fine India of perhaps 600g. Then I recieved the 2X4" Translucent Norton from you in the above photo. It was a suprise. We were both happy. Hope all is well my friend. Stay sharp, DM
 
Here is a photo of my 12''X 3'' Translucent from Dan's. I was attempting to show the 'lucency' of it in the second shot. The uneven lighting is due to my impromptu light source, not the stone.


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Thanks Kevin! :) I'll post back here once I get 'em and let ya know what I think.

Good to talkin' to you again, David. :thumbup: All is well here - hope you're the same my friend!


That Translucent is awesome, peppercorn!


RESISTANCE TO BUYING TRANSLUCENT STONE fading fast! :D
 
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That's cool Pepper! You have a good imagination for pics!

Keith - I can't wait. I am at the beach for the week but will be checking in on my phone :)

Oh and Dave does clear as glass mean the hardest? Thanks.
 
Thanks Keith. Pepper, That size Translucent are hard to come buy, $$. A very nice stone. Kevin, Ho, suffering at the beach-- I see! ;) No, some stones have different colored veins in them. Not making them any harder just a formation in the way the mineral or rock was made. But when I stare at this 2X4 Translucent its appears that my vision penetrates a half inch into the stone. Which causes me to think this Translucent is clear near its surface. Whereas my other Translucent a 4X8" is more opaque with a little pink. Just a different vein and color, all still the same grade. But we don't see this variance among the black stones. DM
 
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coyote711 said:
Thanks Kevin! :) I'll post back here once I get 'em and let ya know what I think.

Good to talkin' to you again, David. :thumbup: All is well here - hope you're the same my friend!


That Translucent is awesome, peppercorn!


RESISTANCE TO BUYING TRANSLUCENT STONE fading fast! :D
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You're fading...Lol! hey thanks coyote'


richstag said:
That's cool Pepper! You have a good imagination for pics!

Keith - I can't wait. I am at the beach for the week but will be checking in on my phone :)

Oh and Dave does clear as glass mean the hardest? Thanks.
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Thanks 'stag, you push me on that front!

David Martin said:
Thanks Keith. Pepper, That size Translucent are hard to come buy, $$. A very nice stone. Kevin, Ho, suffering at the beach-- I see! ;) No, some stones have different colored veins in them. Not making them any harder just a formation in the way the mineral or rock was made. But when I stare at this 2X4 Translucent its appears that my vision penetrates a half inch into the stone. Which causes me to think this Translucent is clear near its surface. Whereas my other Translucent a 4X8" is more opaque with a little pink. Just a different vein and color, all still the same grade. But we don't see this variance among the black stones. DM
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DM,
You don't say. It was quite an investment and sort of a nod to the stone, the small Translucent in that Buck kit, that so many years ago that I allowed me to first shave arm hair easily.
 
Thanks Dave, and Pepper!

I wanted to add a little background to this thread to explain what kind of results I am getting.

Here is the knife I have been working with
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Here is a cell shot of the basic look of the edge. It is not mirror but you also can not see visible grit marks. Somewhere right before mirror polish is what I am getting with my translucent. It is smoothing out but I would say I have only sharpened for 5 minutes total with it. It doesn't take much :)

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Here is another cell shot of my Busse ASHLE and the type of edge I do with my Kalamazoo 1sm.
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I have sharpened literally hundreds of knives with my sander and I can't believe there is a way to get a knife sharper. With that said, I was so happy to be able to get similar results with my stones. Basically, I can 'almost' match the push cutting of the Kalamazoo and exceed the slicing qualities. I have finished directly from just about every grit belt possible and used just about every compound out there on my leather. All in all over time since I keep the edges up on leather I end up with a HIGH polished edge.

Here is a pic of an old Henckels (Boker) that I started on my stones and finished on my leather belt.
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(Stainless) It is not as sharp as I can do with my sander and actually not close to as sharp as I got my GEC with my translucent but it was just another experiment :)

After practicing I don't need my sander for anything (aside from large blades and machetes, I just love the edges). Just my stones and occasionally a hand strop I made and loaded with green compound. I am finding though as long as I don't over sharpen I don't even need my strop much. I think the most important thing I could have ever learned through the use of my sander is about the burr.

I feel if I had the skill I could probably match the results I get with my sander. I suppose that will come with time and practice :)
 
Thanks Dave. Its not a full on conclusion yet. Maybe a year down the road I will be able to give one of my own.

I do know I love it and the stone along with my skill with it should only get better :)
 
It happened again today!
After working my new ZT 0551 with DMT diamond plates for a couple of hours I was finally down to the EF and easily popping hairs.
I decided, rather than going to the EEF that I would break out the Translucent Arkansas again to see how it would interact with Elmax steel.
All I can say is...Wow!
This blade went to scary, hair swather sharp, leaving nothing but smooth skin. It will whittle, tree top and everything in between. I could go on to strops and Diamond spray but why bother. I have actually lost this level of sharpness by doing just that.
I am still scratching my head on this topic, I mean, 3% Vanadium Carbide in Elmax and 4% in S30V against an Arkansas Translucent stone. Either way, you can't argue with the results.
 
Thats great to hear Pepper! Congrats on figuring it out and please do keep us up on any new findings :)
 
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