Surgical Black Arkansas - Translucent Arkansas - Question I Have Both Now

Pepper, This is an interesting experience in sharpening you have with these steels on an Arkansas stone. I'll not add anything to it. Your results stands solid on its own two feet. DM
 
Hi guys! I rec'd my arkansas stones earlier this week. I bought from Hall's and got a 6x2x1 soft arkansas, 6x2x1 surgical black, and a 4 x 1 3/4 x 1/2 pocket translucent.

I finally had the time, and was in the mood, to play around with them for an hour or so this afternoon. The soft arkansas is confusing to me ..... it feels rougher than the fine India to the touch of the fingers, but smoother when using it on a knife blade. I'll need more time to ed-u-ma-cate myself on this one before I reach any conclusions.

The translucent is also ..... different. It doesn't look very translucent at all, and feels rough to the touch and rough on the blade. From earlier reading in this thread it sounds like it may smooth out in time. Also "undecided" on this one, but I'm certainly going to keep an open mind.

The surgical black ..... now I'm impressed! This baby is smoooooth to the touch and smoooooth on the steel. It's not a deep jet black, but more of a charcoal grey/black and very consistent color throughout. Did I mention that it was smooth? I'm probably pretty far down the totem pole when it comes to sharpening abilities, but this stone has already raised my sharpening a notch or two.

FWIW, I don't have any super-steels. Buck 420HC, Case CV, GEC 1095, etc. pretty much covers it.

Anyway, thanks guys for a great informational thread, and for getting me stepped up to the next level. :thumbup:
 
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I'm planning on getting a KME system sometime this year. Their DMT stones only go down to 1200 & I need something finer to finish on. I use a lot of modern, high-end steels that would chew up the natural stones but I'm seeing encouraging results here from finishing a refined edge on the black Arkansas (the black seems to be a touch finer than the translucent from what I've read around here).

I take time & feather-touch it to a pretty fine finish on the 1200 as it is, so I wouldn't be asking much from the black Arkansas. More like a final honing/ deburring stage, maybe. Any other use would chew them up on the modern steels from what I gather.

The problem I have is that the KME Arkansas stones are slightly taller than their dia-sharps. Is there a way to get the black Arkansas leveled accurately to the dia-sharp's height? I'm angle challenged & don't want to screw up a nice stone lapping it by hand if there's a better way.

Also, an unrelated question...in terms of fineness, how does a black Arkansas compare to DMT's pink EEF (8000, 7 micron, I believe)?
 
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Keith - I am glad to hear it worked out for you. I learned the most about sharpening with my belt sander I feel like I just applied it all to stones. You will get it down no problem. The black stone will really help you I believe. Thanks for sharing and. I hope to hear your progression.

Jeff - I don't know the answer to your question. I am sure someone will though. When I used the edgepro they had polishing tapes that worked well. Is this an option for the system you are using?

Kevin
 
coyote711 said:
Hi guys! I rec'd my arkansas stones earlier this week. I bought from Hall's and got a 6x2x1 soft arkansas, 6x2x1 surgical black, and a 4 x 1 3/4 x 1/2 pocket translucent.

I finally had the time, and was in the mood, to play around with them for an hour or so this afternoon. The soft arkansas is confusing to me ..... it feels rougher than the fine India to the touch of the fingers, but smoother when using it on a knife blade. I'll need more time to ed-u-ma-cate myself on this one before I reach any conclusions.

The translucent is also ..... different. It doesn't look very translucent at all, and feels rough to the touch and rough on the blade. From earlier reading in this thread it sounds like it may smooth out in time. Also "undecided" on this one, but I'm certainly going to keep an open mind.

The surgical black ..... now I'm impressed! This baby is smoooooth to the touch and smoooooth on the steel. It's not a deep jet black, but more of a charcoal grey/black and very consistent color throughout. Did I mention that it was smooth? I'm probably pretty far down the totem pole when it comes to sharpening abilities, but this stone has already raised my sharpening a notch or two.

FWIW, I don't have any super-steels. Buck 420HC, Case CV, GEC 1095, etc. pretty much covers it.

Anyway, thanks guys for a great informational thread, and for getting me stepped up to the next level. :thumbup:
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I have 3 Translucents, one of which is much less 'translucent' than the others. I don't think this makes a difference. I will say that I tend to use the same side and that is the side that has become,over time, smooth as silk, literally. The other, unused side, is actually quite rough by comparison. I would say yours just needs to be used more and it will get to the same point. I would imagine the Black will do the same over time also.

Also, keep in mind that unlike some other honing substances out there, Arkansas stones both polish and cut, so the 'feel' is much different in usage. Like DM mentioned before, novaculite is nearly pure silica, in the 3-5 micron range but the desity of the silica is what seperates the stones such that a soft stone is less dense than your Translucent or Black.
 
richstag said:
Jeff - I don't know the answer to your question. I am sure someone will though. When I used the edgepro they had polishing tapes that worked well. Is this an option for the system you are using?

Kevin
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No. I'd need something like the glass bases the EP has for the tapes, at the correct height. I'm scheming to somehow get a black Arkansas shaved to the same height as the DMT stones that come with the KME setup.

The full Arkansas stone setup they offer as a cheaper option would get chewed up by some of my steels & are slightly taller than the DMT stones. The KME is an angle guide setup like the DMT Aligner kit & the height difference between stones would change the angle. The translucent & black Arkansas stones have some sort of intangible attraction for me as well.
 
Jeff - I don't know specifics but I did see on Dan's website an option for custom sizes. Maybe its worth a shot giving them a call :)
 
Jeff, I understand what your trying to do but you'll have to shop and talk to the stone producers/mfg. and see if they currently make what you desire. But as far as the steel your using chewing up a black Arkansas stone this caused me to snicker. Guys here are using them on S30V with good results. What steels are you using? DM
 
David Martin said:
Jeff, I understand what your trying to do but you'll have to shop and talk to the stone producers/mfg. and see if they currently make what you desire. But as far as the steel your using chewing up a black Arkansas stone this caused me to snicker. Guys here are using them on S30V with good results. What steels are you using? DM
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I have to shadow DM here as I have used these on S30V, Elmax and CPM M4, D2 and A2 along with simpler high carbon steels with excellent results. In all cases the stones have been no worse for wear when comparing the simple carbon steels to the high vanadium steels.
 
Also, on the grit of the black its in this post. Be careful on throwing out grit numbers as its important how they were arrived at and by what standard. The diamond stones grit is shaped differently than the Arkansas hence they cut differently. You won't find much polish given with diamond stones. The black being 9 micron does not cut fast, a different shaped grit. Trying to compare natural stones to diamonds is like comparing apples to oranges. They are just way different. Manufactured stones and naturals are two different animals not at all like comparing whitetail to mule deer. DM
 
David Martin said:
Jeff, I understand what your trying to do but you'll have to shop and talk to the stone producers/mfg. and see if they currently make what you desire. But as far as the steel your using chewing up a black Arkansas stone this caused me to snicker. Guys here are using them on S30V with good results. What steels are you using? DM
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I was referring to the other Arkansas stones. KME offers both Arkansas & DMT stone set ups with their system. I figured the black & translucent stones would be ok as a final stage, coming off the DMT 1200.
 
I e-mailed KME. They said they're happy to lap the black Arkansas or shim the DMT stones for me to level them out. They sound like a nice bunch of guys.
 
An update:

I have used the translucent arkansas since the start of this thread on only the GEC 73. I wrap it in a microfiber and a rubber band and take it with me when I travel. I have found an incredible combo with this stone followed by an old barber strop. I only use the white fabric side with some kind of white compound. It rivals what I can do on my belt sander now. I am seriously impressed.

You guys were so dead on about the stone smoothing out. It is now such a joy to use. Incredible feedback while attaining very close to a mirror edge. What really boggles my mind is how this edge will melt through newspaper but also have a toothy quality that I DO NOT get with my belt sander finishing with leather and compounds unless I finish at lower grits.

The edge HOLDS UP too. So, thanks so much to everyone for the info once again. You were all RIGHT!
On to a pic of the edge. This is a quick cell shot I just took after about ten light passes per side. No strop, fresh off the stone. It will shave, push cut newspaper like melting butter, slice toilet paper, tissue, tissue paper and any other material that I test it on. I cut a pizza box to pieces and it still push cut newspaper and shaved hair. I found my perfect combo for folders!

Oh right, the pic. I had an incredible patina that contrasted against the edge like night and day, but I had to buff the blade lightly to remove leather dye. So here is the pic:

IMG03872-20110826-1431.jpg


You can see fresh off the stone I am getting impressive results.
 
Hey guys,

I had a gift card from Christmas and just splurged. Dans Translucent 10x3 and Dans Pocket Translucent with leather pouch for the truck :)

Pics when I get them. I just get better with my translucent and could not be happier. Seems crazy, but I didn't hesitate to pick these two new ones up.
 
Wow, you did splurge, Kevin - 10x3! :D I quickly skimmed this whole thread and didn't see mention of what size stones you already have - maybe I missed it. Anyway, if you currently have 6x2's or 8x2's it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the new 10x3. Congrats!
 
I did splurge Keith :o but I don't feel bad :)

The translucent stone I have been using is 8x2x1/2. Its actually a great size for the slipjoints I have been using it for. I use both sides. As the main side smoothed out I really like it for final honing. The side that I have used less, I have purposed for when I receive a new knife. It is a little coarse still and gets me moving quickly. Then when I get my bevel set I flip it and finish on the smoothed side.

I was given a very generous set of gift cards by my girl's parents. They were for amazon and I found the 10x3x1/2 Dan's and the pocket stone and said what the heck! Its not the 1" thick but I don't see a difference for my use. I keep my stones stored safe and don't beat them up.

I think the small pocket stone will be plenty for light grazing touch ups when I travel and such :)

I will let you know what I think. I didn't need it, but I like to spend money on things that last.

How are your new stones working out for you?
 
Kevin, I've got to admit to being a complete bum in the past six months - I haven't used my Arkansas stones much at all, and have just stuck to my Nortons. :o :D
 
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