Surgical Black Arkansas - Translucent Arkansas - Question I Have Both Now

[Komitadjie]

I very commonly do the same thing you showed in that post a couple back, Richstag. In my case I do the stone work with an EdgePro, but that's just because I ain't all that good freehand.

After I've gone through an 8K waterstone on the EP, it's quite respectable. But then I take it out to the Kalamazoo with a SurgiSharp and use 1u Boron carbide to power-strop it, then swap belts to a .5u CrO and hit it again. Under the microscope, you can actually see that it's added a very, very tiny convex "microbevel" to the last perhaps .002" of the edge that is polished to just an absurd degree. I've found it to work quite well for me, and that's the edge I carry on all of my own knives at the moment. So far, *I* haven't been able to beat that edge with any other method although I am entirely sure that there are guys who could.

 

[richstag]

I very commonly do the same thing you showed in that post a couple back, Richstag. In my case I do the stone work with an EdgePro, but that's just because I ain't all that good freehand.

After I've gone through an 8K waterstone on the EP, it's quite respectable. But then I take it out to the Kalamazoo with a SurgiSharp and use 1u Boron carbide to power-strop it, then swap belts to a .5u CrO and hit it again. Under the microscope, you can actually see that it's added a very, very tiny convex "microbevel" to the last perhaps .002" of the edge that is polished to just an absurd degree. I've found it to work quite well for me, and that's the edge I carry on all of my own knives at the moment. So far, *I* haven't been able to beat that edge with any other method although I am entirely sure that there are guys who could.

Yeah, I use my Kalamazoo also. Mainly for large choppers. Really, you can go from an 80 grit belt to leather and compounds and get an edge that is extremely sharp. I actually don't like the super fine edge that the leather belts give for an EDC knife. I like the finish my 8x2 translucent gives.

After taking fresh off the stone and then after use pictures, I actually think I figured something out.

It seems that off the stone/linen strop, the edge is very smooth with just hints of the micro serrations. It seems as I use the knife the thin sections (valleys) of the micro serrated edge wear away, leaving the thicker steel. Basically giving a toothier edge with use. This is great for me for an EDC.

I actually just made a few light passes on my 8x2 after using the 10x3 and it gave me a better edge (to my likings).

I have to wonder though, if what you are seeing is actually a micro burr. When I have my edges finished with leather belts you can see what looks like a bright white line along the edge if it has a micro burr. Finished without a micro burr, all I see is seemingly perfectly finished smooth steel to the edge.

I keep the kalamazoo and leather belts or even hand strop for wood working tools and choppers.

What do you think Komitadjie?

 

[Komitadjie]

That would be very interesting to see, typically that works the other way around and the "teeth" break off or fold over instead of the shallow sections wearing and leaving LARGER teeth... Do you have a way to get those pictures up? I'd get a kick out of seeing them! It's always fun to see something new.

Without seeing your exact edge the way *you* do it under high mangification I couldn't say, but I'd SUSPECT that what you're seeing down at the edge is that super-polished, tiny little convexed section that the charged-belt abrasive leaves right at the edge of the edge. In my case I know it's not a burr I'm seeing, because after a few hard-pressure strokes across a pine board I've still got an edge. If it was a burr, that'd either flop it over and it wouldn't cut for crap, or tear it off.

Everyone has a bit different technique for their knife use, so the same edge isn't for everyone! Some guys love a toothy edge, some swear by an edge polished up to an absurd degree. All I know is that my knife cuts dang good for me, and does so for a long time. As a potential piece of useful information, I tend to favor newer ultra-fine-carbide steels, so most of my knives tend to have tiny little carbides and reasonably high hardness numbers. Coarse-carbide steels take an ENTIRELY different edge under the same abrasive conditions.

 

[richstag]

Maybe you are looking at something different then me with the 'micro bevel' thing No worries on that, whatever works.

The edges I put on choppers can go out and tear through hardwoods and still push cut newspaper, so I know what you mean

I have been using my kalamzoo for a while now, and believe me, I will be the last to disagree with you about the level of sharpness you can achieve.

It truly defines scary IMO.

Anyhow, I have posted these before, but since your interested shots of before and after.

Fresh edge

After use (foods, cardboard, similar etc)

They were shot with different cameras and at different crop levels so its not the best illustration.

These edge pics are hard to get as I keep the angle of the edge so I am not just looking from the side. Coordinating the DOF of both the microscope and my camera phone or point and shoot is tricky.

Just take my word on this one. Finished of the stone and linen strop, the actual edge is relatively smooth (like a flat line), and after use it progresses to a toothier edge. I have looked at the edge all along the length multiple times now, and this is the pattern I have found.

 

[richstag]

Here you go Komitadjie. For your viewing pleasure. INFI of my ASH1LE.

This edge is insanely sharp. No matter what angle I looked at it under the microscope I see no burr.

Also, I originally set this edge with a 320 belt and over time it has smoothed to this level after sharpening with leather belts and various compounds.

That shot is 100x plus an EXTREME crop.



Edit to add - That edge is the result of green compound and a leather belt. Its also the result of use over time. Edges that I take past green compound come out with no visible scratch patterns at 100x.

 

[Komitadjie]

Ooooo, now I'll bet THAT thing cuts! Holy cow, that's a beautifully even edge. Excellent work!

I've heard good stuff about the INFI blade steel, how well does it hold that edge for you?

 

[richstag]

You bet it cuts!! Its really scary actually when you start to think about it.

It holds it well. I have found with INFI that if you don't go too thin on the geometry it works well. I take out my FBMLE and chop hardwood all the time and it will still shave and push cut newspaper. Not as 'melting butter' as fresh off the leather belt, but it still will

The problem comes when you go too thin and it will bend. When I was getting the edge right on my FBMLE I went a little too thin and chopping would let the edge actual deform left and right. I ground it to just a little steeper angle and it has held fine for the last couple years.

As for the ASHLE and the pictured edge, its not extremely low of an angle so it has no problems.

This pic shows the profile.

I recommend it, but its not magic

 

[richstag]

BTW, that pic was a lame attempt to learn the photoshop cut out tool, so it really can't be used to judge anything other then the general height of the edge.

 

[richstag]

DM, That's interseting, I haven't searched the forum but have noticed these stones don't come up much in conversation.
I was really surprised by my results given the Vanadium content, pleasantly so however. I have been able to take a high vanadium S30V blade, from the extra fine DMT that will shave hair no problem and move over to the translucent stone, with oil, and come off popping, tree topping and whittling...just a dramatic difference. The other thing I really like about these stones is the Feedback I get. I can 'feel' the facet perfectly when I am working on this stone unlike any diamond plate I have.

Pepper,

I finally started to EDC my regular sebenza again! Taking your experience into account I gave it a go on my 8x2 translucent. I was sharpening with sandpaper and a strop previously when I EDC my regular. Let me just say, I am THRILLED with the results I just got. So there is another voice telling the tale of S30v and a translucent stone success.

Here is a quick cell pick of the edge.