Survival, "Bushcraft," and "Primitive Living Skills..." your ideas on differences...

Don Rearic

Don Rearic

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Oct 8, 1998
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This is all about personal opinion and I am intensely interested in what your opinions are.

We have a hodge-podge of stuff going on in here and sometimes I'm a bit puzzled as to what people are thinking. Rest assured, I am well aware that the feeling is mutual... 8-)

I said this in another thread just the other day but I want to say it now just so people know where I'm coming from.

I have an intense interest and fascination in the following:

How to work chert, obsidian, antler, bone, leather and other natural materials.

How to properly make a fire-bow, drill, base and socket as well as some other primitive firemaking tools and techniques.

In general, how to make things like bowls and water carriers out of bark and just this long laundry list of items, devices and various methods that are more "primitive" in nature.

Not to single Tom Brown out for any ridicule or to start a thread bashing him, it's not just Tom Brown that promotes this way of thinking but in the past, I have discussed this with some of the fine people who have taken his courses and my brother has a close friend who has been to his uppermost classes and I just don't get this, "What if you get dumped in the Rockie Mountains and your nekkid and can't have any of your fancy gear then?" sort of attitude.

There are two answers to that question. One: If it's in the winter time and you don't have gear, you're going to die if you don't have some gear. Two: I guess you will be running around nekkid in the summer trying to stone a deer or something to cover your bare ass, I dunno.

I also know that the words survival, survivalism and survivalist continue to get a bad wrap because of the racist goons who have embraced those words a long, long time ago.

So, in your opinion, is "Bushcraft" different from "Survival" or is it just running from the whole "survival word controversy," i.e., what makes a "Bushcraft Knife" any different from a "Survival Knife?"

What is the point of demarcation between Bushcraft and Survival Skills?

Lastly, although I do find some value in the more primitive skills, methods...technologies and ways of doing things, and this might anger some people and I hope you think before you post...but a lot of these people really strike me more as hobbyists in this arena.

Don't get angry if you think I am talking about you, think about it and give a reasoned response.

Now, the truth of the matter is, anything that is a passion has a hobbyist element to it. I would be lying if I said I didn't like tinkering around with these kits all the time because I do. I like to brainstorm stuff about all this gear and I'm quite shocked with some of the cool stuff you guys come up with on almost a daily basis in here.

All of that having been said, even if the end of the world happened and bird flu knocked out 80% of the world's population, you're not going to have to make a fire-bow and drill in order to survive and, if you do, you might die of hypothermia if you have to do it on the spot, etc.

I'm sure that most of you have over a dozen different "primitive-meets-modern" ways of starting a fire, primarily using sparks, be it ferrocerium or misch metal rods, DOAN magnesium blocks with the ferro rod on the side, Spark-Lites, Blastmatches, etc., etc., etc. I mean, let's face it, if the end of the world happened, no matter what the cause, you're probably going to be a smart human unit and learn how to carry a coal, a real primitive skill that could possibly be one of the most important "fire skills" from the primitive age that we have - yet no one really talks about this much.

So, in your opinion, where does "survival, bushcraft and primitive living skills" begin and end and where does it mesh and are some of them cover or code words for simple survival skills?
 
I, like you, have a strong interest in primitive skills, archery, atlatl, friction fire, pretty much all stone age technologies. However I temper that with a healthy dose of realism, I really can't imagine a scenario, barring science fiction, that I would have to use most/any of those skills.

My mantra is preparedness and expecting the unexpected, whether that is in the wilderness or urban setting. I guess I could be lumped in the survivalist category but I don't tend to think of myself as such. I just think I am prepared to take care of myself and my family to the best of my abilities. Chris
 
I think Bushcraft is part of learning advanced survival, Modern survival is having those modern tools with you to survive 3 days which is from what I have read is the average time it takes a rescue to happen. Someone that is really trying to make sure he/she comes back needs to learn as much Bushcraft as they can, but we need to start out with modern survival mind set if we do not have skills, then you build your skills as you go along.

This is just my thoughts on the subject.
RickJ
 
The survivalist controversy is an interesting one. I have read people online who bitch about "survivalist" and "survivalism" as dirty words suitable only to describe racists and other nuts and then turn right around and talk about "sheeple." That word, "sheeple" or "sheople" is straight-up Aryan Nations language. It has weaseled its way into our lexicon as well, but most people are ignorant about it.

The root word of "survivalism" and "survivalist" is still survival and I don't think we do ourselves any favors from running from that.
 
RickJ said:
I think Bushcraft is part of learning advanced survival, Modern survival is having those modern tools with you to survive 3 days which is from what I have read is the average time it takes a rescue to happen. Someone that is really trying to make sure he/she comes back needs to learn as much Bushcraft as they can, but we need to start out with modern survival mind set if we do not have skills, then you build your skills as you go along.

RickJ
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That's fair enough, but you still need to explain it. What does "Bushcraft" contain that a 3-day survival skill-prep does not? What makes a knife a "bushcraft" knife versus a "survival" knife?
 
for me bushcraft is the pursuit of wilderness living skills (many primitive) for the sheer enjoyment of the practice...Like some people practice martial arts but never plan on fighting...I'd like to think of my self as a hobby bushcrafter in that I go out and practice things and enjoy it...I could be as comfortable doing this in someones yard as in a 10,000 hectare wilderness area. although a more natureal setting is preffered. I would consider a skilled bushcrafter (which I definitely am not) a willderness thriver

I tend to think of "survivalists" a little differently, although most folks around here tend to cross borders... I think survivalists hope for the best and prepare for the worst....(Sometimes too much so) this often times becomes a gear related rather than a skill related endeavor....and is aimed at tailoring gear, kits, and skills into muttling through a hypothetical period of temporaroy hardship, or challenge. in other words "survivalists" seem to pay more attention to preparation.



I think in a wilderness setting a skilled bushcrafter could make a fantastic go at survival. I think however a survivalist while successful at that might not nec. be a great crafter.

I don't know if that makes any sense but I've been up all night..
 
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Don Rearic said:
What makes a knife a "bushcraft" knife versus a "survival" knife?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what a survival knife is, any knife is a survival knife.

A bushcraft knife is a term and knife that was invented by Ray Mears, a full tang, 4-5" scandi grind knife. I tend to think most terms like SURVIVAL KNIFE and BUSHCRAFT KNIFE are terms coined to get people to spend their money. I mean really, how could you even contemplate going into the woods with an old carbon steel butcher knife and survive, I watch the bear and know I have to have a specialized 400 dollar BUSHCRAFT/SURVIVAL knife. :D Chris
 
RescueRiley said:
for me bushcraft is the pursuit of wilderness living skills (many primitive) for the sheer enjoyment of the practice...Like some people practice martial arts but never plan on fighting...I'd like to think of my self as a hobby bushcrafter in that I go out and practice things and enjoy it...I could be as comfortable doing this in someones yard as in a 10,000 hectare wilderness area. although a more natureal setting is preffered. I would consider a skilled bushcrafter (which I definitely am not) a willderness thriver

I tend to think of "survivalists" a little differently, although most folks around here tend to cross borders... I think survivalists hope for the best and prepare for the worst....(Sometimes too much so) this often times becomes a gear related rather than a skill related endeavor....and is aimed at tailoring gear, kits, and skills into muttling through a hypothetical period of temporaroy hardship, or challenge. in other words "survivalists" seem to pay more attention to preparation.

I think in a wilderness setting a skilled bushcrafter could make a fantastic go at survival. I think however a survivalist while successful at that might not nec. be a great crafter.

I don't know if that makes any sense but I've been up all night..
Click to expand...

Good answer and you probably hit on why I don't consider myself a survivalist. Chris
 
Riley,

I think that's very honest.

For the record, I think most "survivalists" over the years have either been wealthy, had incredibly well paying jobs or been of the fringe element.

You read some of the books and whatnot and it's crystal clear, I mean, who in the hell could have Mel Tappan's preparations without being wealthy or inheriting iI?

I also think a lot of those people focus on gun skills and skills like canning and possibly farming, hunting, etc., as opposed to how to use a simple ferrocerium rod and build a real fire. So, I agree with you a lot there as well.

I think from Rick's post, I THINK, I can come to the conclusion that in his opinion, something like learning how to be very skilled at making snares, for example, is more "Bushcraft" and "3-Day Survival Prep" because no one is going to starve in three days unless they are already at death's door.

I don't necessarily agree with that point of view, but, hey! I might be more Bushcrafter when this all sorts out at a half dozen pages! 8-)
 
runningboar said:
I have no idea what a survival knife is, any knife is a survival knife.

A bushcraft knife is a term and knife that was invented by Ray Mears, a full tang, 4-5" scandi grind knife. I tend to think most terms like SURVIVAL KNIFE and BUSHCRAFT KNIFE are terms coined to get people to spend their money. I mean really, how could you even contemplate going into the woods with an old carbon steel butcher knife and survive, I watch the bear and know I have to have a specialized 400 dollar BUSHCRAFT/SURVIVAL knife. :D Chris
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I know about the money angle.

Here is another question, who came first, Mears or Kochanski's book "Bushcraft?" 8-)
 
Wabajack said:
Survivalists just want to get out of the woods, bushcrafters never want to leave! :D
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Maybe for some people. I would love to have the money to live in the mountains and live an entirely different lifestyle as well. But, then again, like I said, when this thread all shakes out, perhaps I will feel differently about various titles and outlooks, etc.
 
korchansk came up with his own qualifications..which he found the majority of which to be commercially avail in a stick tang mora..(many of his quals are similar to mears) full tang, no guard, scandi grind....Korchanski had a mora with him in many pics.. untill he was presented with a Skookum bushtool by the maker... ( aknife designed by the maker to the "exact specs" Korchanski spoke about.
 
Don Rearic said:
Did Kochanski recommend a similar fixed blade knife?
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Yes, except the one Mors recommended cost about 10 bucks, Ray's knife is a bit more. ;)

I tend to be a little of a cheapskate, I spent a tremendous amount of money searching for the holy grail and what I discovered is for the most part the advantages are very small for the amount of money spent. Chris
 
Don Rearic said:
Maybe for some people. I would love to have the money to live in the mountains and live an entirely different lifestyle as well. But, then again, like I said, when this thread all shakes out, perhaps I will feel differently about various titles and outlooks, etc.
Click to expand...

I said that only in jest, but sometimes it definitely seems that way. ;)
 
Chris,

You can drop me wherever you want in the United States with the gear I need to survive or make the things I need to survive. Give me an Aitor Jungle King II and I WON'T perish because my blade broke or any of the other bullshit arguments people put forth about various types of knives. That having been said, all of my go-to FBs are currently RAT Cutlery and Ontario RAT. They are absolutely simple survival tools that are made well and that's all I need.

But I do giggle at the penis measuring threads and pride of ownership arguments parading as real survival discussions when it comes to some knives.
 
A think this started off as a great thread, but is now turning into a which knife thread (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I think one's choice of blade is almost irrelevant in regards to this conversation...if you can get it to do what you want than it works....
 
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