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One COULD make a case that the time and place you'll need a defense gun is while afield.
No cops, no 911........just you and the badguy(s).......
But I agree, the question needs to be asked better.
.
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survival firearm??????????????
- Thread starter mblackfu
- Start date
One COULD make a case that the time and place you'll need a defense gun is while afield.
No cops, no 911........just you and the badguy(s).......
But I agree, the question needs to be asked better.
.
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Does the 20 gauge fair better than the 12 gauge for game? It seems as though alot of folks prefer the 20 gauge.
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I agree David E. I have had increased incounters with knuckleheads in the mountains alot more lately. And no matter how deep and far you think you are, there always seems to be someone else around. It seems that is the time when the bravado comes out and people bring their guns...thus the attitutes and all the quazi survivalist dirt bags come out.
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In a world of, bigger is better no.
But when I'm grouse hunting a 6lbs. 20ga. handles better after 8 hours of dog following then any 12ga. I've used.
Ballistically they're close enough and the gun and ammo are lighter so for me it works great.
Helle
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for survival purposes it's hard to beat a a good .22 rifle, it's light can take any small game, in a tight situation can take up to deer sized game if you do your part. ammo is really cheap and light and compact as all get out, and you can find it just about any where. people will disagree with me I'm sure but in an sd sit any gun is better than none....I've seena couple of people just as dead from a .22 as I have from a 9mm (not to say they are comparable as sd firearms) just an observation. A 20 gauge is also a good bet the ammo is smaller and lighter than a 12 gauge and you can get a wide variety of ammo to help with small game large game and sd. good luck!
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Cops and 911 ain't going to help you no matter where you are, they just clean up the mess and try to catch the BG after the fact. Chris
In a survival situation, which I assume we have agreed is the topic, there will be two key factors.
1. Will the firearm provide game for the pot? Will it be capable in the hands of a trained marksman of killing small game?
2. Will the firearm be light enough to carry on your person at all times and in all situations? Will the ammunition required also be light enough?
If these are the factors to consider, then the obvious choice will always be a firearm in .22 caliber. And, while a .22 rifle is certainly a better choice than a .22 pistol for all the obvious reasons, the pistol wins out in the weight department and the ease of carry department which will be a big factor.
So, my choice would be a quality (no saturday night specials) .22 pistol such as the Ruger 22/45 or the like and several rounds of ammo to fit.
It would be easy to make a case for either a .22 rifle or a O/U .22/20 gauge combination gun. IMHO though the weight is the deciding factor.
1. Will the firearm provide game for the pot? Will it be capable in the hands of a trained marksman of killing small game?
2. Will the firearm be light enough to carry on your person at all times and in all situations? Will the ammunition required also be light enough?
If these are the factors to consider, then the obvious choice will always be a firearm in .22 caliber. And, while a .22 rifle is certainly a better choice than a .22 pistol for all the obvious reasons, the pistol wins out in the weight department and the ease of carry department which will be a big factor.
So, my choice would be a quality (no saturday night specials) .22 pistol such as the Ruger 22/45 or the like and several rounds of ammo to fit.
It would be easy to make a case for either a .22 rifle or a O/U .22/20 gauge combination gun. IMHO though the weight is the deciding factor.
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Amen...one caveat, though...the cops don't clean up the mess. There are services for hire that specialize in the cleanup of crime scenes. Other than that, sadly, it's usually a do it yourself proposition.
I'm glad, really glad, to see so many advocates of the rimfire answering up. I'm also glad to see alot of "simple is better". The fewer moving parts, the better. I have no doubt, RunningBoar, that, push come to shove, you could hand-engineer replacement parts for that NEF from expedient materials.
I do think the question needs to be less vague. I've been heavily criticized in the past for carrying a NAA Mini-Master when I go afield but it fills the stewpot for me. Recently, I have begun carrying it with the .22 Magnum cylinder loaded...perhaps a paranoid homage to Bill Jordan, who once touted its effect on flesh as "wicked". If this hypothetical situation has me going "beyond Thunderdome", however, I'd want something with more reach, more punch, and more spare parts...my Garand, maybe...perhaps a Nagant. Unless things have gotten seriously effed-up, however, it's hard for me to justify a long distance weapon.
RunningBoar may have hit on the best compromise with his NEF. Simple, easily fed (12G can be found almost anywhere in the world), good combination of punch and intermediate range, lightweight so it can be broken down in the rucksack, doesn't carry the "assault rifle stigma". Thanks RB, I think you just pushed me over the edge on a purchase I've been contemplating for awhile.
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I've had bad experiences with my brothers henry survival rifle, I really like the concept but it seems to jam alot and is not stellar in the accuracy dept, it might be his particular gun however, my next purchase I think will be a henry youth lever action. .22
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Unless I'm specifically going out plinking or hunting, I don't take a rifle. I've often thought of the Marlin Papoose take down...it's temping and one I may try down the road.
For day hikes or extended backpacking trips, I always take a pistol for self-defense. I do have a .22 pistol in my Bug-Out bag (Buckmark), but I want something a little lighter. I've often thought about going back to the Glock (the model 19) and getting a .22 coversion for it. I've fired the Glock with the .22 conversion (Advantage Arms?), and it was quite accurate and enjoyable. This would give you the ability to carry plenty of ammo for putting game in the pot and the ability to switch back to 9mm when not hunting so you're ready for SD. I know there is the issue of not being ready for opportunity game, but I wouldn't be opposed to carrying the .22 conversion all day and putting the 9mm back on at night when sleeping.
If I went with a pistol that was 9mm or .45 with a .22 conversion, than I would stongly look at a simple 20 guage single shot for serious game collection.
ROCK6
For day hikes or extended backpacking trips, I always take a pistol for self-defense. I do have a .22 pistol in my Bug-Out bag (Buckmark), but I want something a little lighter. I've often thought about going back to the Glock (the model 19) and getting a .22 coversion for it. I've fired the Glock with the .22 conversion (Advantage Arms?), and it was quite accurate and enjoyable. This would give you the ability to carry plenty of ammo for putting game in the pot and the ability to switch back to 9mm when not hunting so you're ready for SD. I know there is the issue of not being ready for opportunity game, but I wouldn't be opposed to carrying the .22 conversion all day and putting the 9mm back on at night when sleeping.
If I went with a pistol that was 9mm or .45 with a .22 conversion, than I would stongly look at a simple 20 guage single shot for serious game collection.
ROCK6
An old Sheridan Blue Streak in .20 calibre for small critters around the house (sheeple friendly), an older colt single action .22. in the BOB and a folding stock 10-22 with a good scope for food gathering if I cant bug-out in place. For home defense, The 870 and the Python in .357.
I had a Henry - I couldn't a thing with it - very inaccurate for me.
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Rock,
I have a buckmark also and they are wonderful pistols, on a week long hog hunting trip in Texas I kept the entire camp fed with rabbits for a week. The only problem is it is heavy as hell, check into tactical solutions website they make some lightweight barrels for the browning and ruger pistols that really lighten them up tremendously. My 22/45 with the composite frame and aluminum upper is very, very light but still balances well and shoots one hole 25yard groups with ammo it likes. Chris
I have a buckmark also and they are wonderful pistols, on a week long hog hunting trip in Texas I kept the entire camp fed with rabbits for a week. The only problem is it is heavy as hell, check into tactical solutions website they make some lightweight barrels for the browning and ruger pistols that really lighten them up tremendously. My 22/45 with the composite frame and aluminum upper is very, very light but still balances well and shoots one hole 25yard groups with ammo it likes. Chris
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Hey Runningboar, when are you returning? We should be getting back around NOV and are planning a hog hunting trip just south of Killeen when we get back...part of our "reintegration" training
I was looking at the new 22/45 Hunter with the 4.5" barrel.
ROCK6
I was looking at the new 22/45 Hunter with the 4.5" barrel.
ROCK6
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Hey Runningboar, when are you returning? We should be getting back around NOV and are planning a hog hunting trip just south of Killeen when we get back...part of our "reintegration" training
I was looking at the new 22/45 Hunter with the 4.5" barrel.
ROCK6
Rock6,
DA has seen fit to give me a desk job, for now anyway, I am at bragg full time. I am in line for a 1SG job right now that if I get it I will be here for another 2 years. The hog hunt sounds interesting, if you have room for a couple more give me a holler, if you are ever in this neck of the woods let me know I was in 3rd ID for almost 5 years and know some bang up hog hunting in GA. Chris
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Right now its the Ruger Vaqueros in 45 Colt. When backpacking I take one my wife takes one, a little heavy but reliable.
I have'nt carried a "survival" firearm in many years. In most of my travels across the U.S. I have not been that many places I could'nt walk out of in a few days, to some road or ranch. You can go quite a way with no food, but not too far without water. In most of the survival stories I've read about, a gun would not have made that much difference. Possesion of a firearm won't overcome sheer stupid behavior that got the person into the fix to start. I think the knowledge of how to make fire to boil your water is WAY more important than having a gun along. Most of the most beautifull and remote places are in the federal park system, and at every trail head I've been to in Yellowstone, Bryce, Canyonlands, Shenendoah, Acadia, George Washington, Olympic and the Great Smoky Mountain National parks, theres a sign with NO Firearms listed in the rules. Same for most of the state parks we've been to from Maine to Texas. I can't see as you'll get too far down the trail with an AK-47 over your shoulder. In a lifetime of backpacking and canoe camping I have'nt had any problems with animals exept for one overly nosey black bear in the Smoky Mountain section of the AT., and a blast of pepper spray in the face sent him howling into the brush.
However!
Having said all that, for 25 years my steady companion backpacking gun was either my model 63 S&W, or my old bobbed hammer model 60 S&W. Off in the boonies, I'm WAY more leary of any human than I am the four legged critters I share the woods with. I lean to a small very concealable revolver. In 1999, the old model 60 was replaced with two model 317's, one for me and the other for my wife who shares my enthusiasim for shooting rimfire. With both of us with 8 rounds of stingers ready, I feel we are somewhat protected as long as we don't run into a horde of zombis or 50 crazed bikers with full auto weapons. Both of us keep the guns concealed in case of a stray encounter with a park ranger, which has happened.
I have to share sentiments with runningboar on this. Too many people are confusing self defence with survival. For the use of survival, a good accurite .22 revolver or a simple break open H&R shotgun should do quite well. The single barrel 20 bore can be loaded up with some 5 or 6 shot for small game, or a slug for a deer if you plan on staying put for a while. the assult rifles and tactical shot guns are for the Soldier of Fortune fantacies. If it comes to a pinch for self defence, a slug or shot from that same 20 gauge will do a great deal of damage, and can be reloaded fast with a spare shell between the middle fingers of the left hand. Or 8 rounds from a .22 revolver into the midsection will ruin a perp's day. Keep it simple.
However!
Having said all that, for 25 years my steady companion backpacking gun was either my model 63 S&W, or my old bobbed hammer model 60 S&W. Off in the boonies, I'm WAY more leary of any human than I am the four legged critters I share the woods with. I lean to a small very concealable revolver. In 1999, the old model 60 was replaced with two model 317's, one for me and the other for my wife who shares my enthusiasim for shooting rimfire. With both of us with 8 rounds of stingers ready, I feel we are somewhat protected as long as we don't run into a horde of zombis or 50 crazed bikers with full auto weapons. Both of us keep the guns concealed in case of a stray encounter with a park ranger, which has happened.
I have to share sentiments with runningboar on this. Too many people are confusing self defence with survival. For the use of survival, a good accurite .22 revolver or a simple break open H&R shotgun should do quite well. The single barrel 20 bore can be loaded up with some 5 or 6 shot for small game, or a slug for a deer if you plan on staying put for a while. the assult rifles and tactical shot guns are for the Soldier of Fortune fantacies. If it comes to a pinch for self defence, a slug or shot from that same 20 gauge will do a great deal of damage, and can be reloaded fast with a spare shell between the middle fingers of the left hand. Or 8 rounds from a .22 revolver into the midsection will ruin a perp's day. Keep it simple.