survival firearm??????????????

there are setbacks of course, you have to be more proficient at stalking, and you have to be alot more selective with your shots, and your hunting conditions not the easiest thing when your starving, but it worked for plenty of aboriginal people for centuries.
 
Ive got a Marlin 39A for plinking and bagging small game, a Ruger Alaskan .454 for if things get bad, and Im hoping to get an Alaskan Copilot for it things get REALLLY bad:D
 
David E said:
in theory, yes.
Tell me, please, how you'll allocate your rounds. IE; how many #6 shot, how many slugs, how many 00 Buck.
What circumstances will dictate what rounds to unload/load ?
What would be your total round count ?.
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I appreciate the point you are making about the weight of shotgun ammo, especially 12GA or higher. For an outing of more than a few days (hoping for plenty of game) weight would become a prohibitive factor.

As for ammo allocation: I carry an over/under 12Ga. I can load buckshot in one barrel and #6 or #8 shot in the other. I can select either barrel. The top barrel has a cylinder choke installed and it is an easy matter to replace a shotshell with a rifled slug if big game seems likely. I get good practical accuracy firing slugs offhand at 50Yds by sighting down the rib.

As with most double barreled guns, mine is easily taken down for unobtrusive carry in a pack.

I usually carry about sixteen rounds: Eight of #6 or 8 shot. Five buckshot and three slugs. Such a small amount of ammo as this would not last for an extended survival situation on foot.
 
A 243 win or rem is a good choice. It is an excellent varmint load--Great for muskrats and groundhogs. In Virginia it is the smallest legal cartridge for deer. It can tackle larger bipeds if needbe. Plus--243 is smaller than much of other ammo discussed earlier.
 
I have long thought that a small frame Remington Rolling block would be the perfect base for a long term "existance" arms for the wilds. My oldest sons first rifle was a takedown .22lr Rolling Block. A good rust preventative(like a hard chrome or TiNi coating), 20" barrel with good irons, laminated butt and forestock and chambered in .357 magnum.
Rem Rolling Block- easy to cam the barrel pin as a takedown. no small parts to break/lose
Laminated stock- not likely to bust a stock in a fall/mpoisture resistant
20" barrel- in takedown would fit inside most rucks + plenty of velocity in short cartridge
.357 Mag- ammo availibility .357 or .38 S&W for scrounging, good enough for deer to 75-100 yards with added velocity of the 20" barrel, good enough on small game with .38 loads, can easily cast bullets from scrounged lead/wheel weights,VERY easy to reload using small hands tools.

One of these days I will put my $$ where my idea is and pursue this. There is a European built Baby Rolling Block available in .357 for a start. At least as an excercise.

A second vote for the 870 Rem pump- my current "just in case" for its versatility.
2Door
 
I like the Stoeger Outback. 12 gauge over and under shotgun, with screw in choke tubes, and iron sights (They are crude but decently regulated to the top barrel). The barrels are 20 inchs long. I plan to cut the stock down to around 13 inch LOP. With it I can take small or large game by just changing ammunition types. I know the ammuniton is bulky but if I am not fighting off hordes of looters, then it offers the most versatility of any gun I can think of and not alot of moving parts to go wrong. Also it can be broken down and stored easily. As a second gun a single action revolver in proably .22 Magnum.
 
Growing up in Alaska, my grandfather's best friend was an old coot who lived in the hills in a cabin he built himself when he was seventeen. He used to tell me stories all the time about huting moose with his favorite .22. To him, it was all about how close he could stalk and where the bullet went "as any good hunter ought". He told me how he hated to give up that old rifle when it came time to upgrade, but "that Long Rifle is such a damn fast little bugger, I couldn't say no."
Now, I've never had the balls to hunt big game with a little bullet, but there's proof of what the .22 can do if used correctly.
 
Kev8287 are you happy with the performance with your Stoeger? I have read many times that people have discrepancies from one gun to the other, being that the make is inconsistant. I know they are of the more reasonably affordable double barrels on the market, but even some gun shop owners seemed a little down on them? I don't know but I like their price.
 
Diamond dog for a similar price you might want to look into the remington spartan (formerly baikal) coach guns I have a side by side 20 gauge with 20 inch barrels the thing is dynamite.
 
bushman14 said:
He used to tell me stories all the time about huting moose with his favorite .22.
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Not to cast a shadow of doubt on his story, or saying that all it is is a story, but did you ever see a hide or skull? And more to the point, did he ever try that little stunt during mating season on a bull in rut? I'd head up a damn tree and stay there for a while, rather than trust my life to a .22 during mating season.

I say that because everyone I know who has taken a moose with full sized rifle has had it turn into a fairly long track. And I know of a guy emptied a .44 into a moose, got tried, and half an hour later when his hunting buddy found him, the moose was still alive and pissed off. I'm also a lot smaller than a car, and a bull in rut can total a parked car without much trouble.
 
It's hard to beat a small, bolt action .22lr for rugged reliability and light weight ammo. Need to be able to keep the rimfire ammo in a waterproof container if in a wet enviroment.
 
Hey, I always believed the guy. He had a big zigzag tattoo from his ankle to mid thigh from a chainsaw accident where he stitched himself up with his wifes yarn. That kind of guy, I'd believe any story.
By the way, I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, but your friend is a perfect example of how the most capable weapon won't do squat if used improperly. The biggest baddest moose will drop like a stone if hit in the right spot. I still have a bull rack I harvested after I watched my father separate it from a moose's head, along with half the skull...with a ruger super blackhawk in .44 mag., offhand and in a hurry.
I live in Oregon now, and it cracks me up how one guy can hunt deer every year with a
.223 and another swears he needs a .338 magnum just to take one down. Don't laugh guys, I've actually heard that one!

Anyhow, didn't mean to hijack. I carry a MKI target model, 2 spare mags, and a couple boxes of Long Rifle in ziplocs in my pack.
 
There is truth to what bushman14 says about the .22 taking down big game even moose. A .22 bullet if aimed at the head will literally scramble your brains. I have read about early homesteaders only having .22 rifles welding small nuts to the rifle for a make do apenture sight.

Most do not know that a .22 can be one of the most dangerous rounds. A .22 does not always just shoot threw whatever it hits, it bounces and richotes off bone causing more internal damage. Think about it, if large game can be taken with a bow and arrow as it has since before ammo, why wouldn't a properly placed .22?
 
To kill a moose you would have to hit it absolutely perfect, at close range with no margin for error, not saying it can't be done but you would shoot a lot of moose for every one you kill. 22 bullets do not bounce around and scramble your guts, I have no idea where that started but it is not true. If the good ole 22 was as lethal as yall claim I'd hang up my trusty 06 and be deer hunting with a 22 this fall.

Comparing a 22 to archery gear is apples and oranges, the only similarity is that you hunt with them, the methods they kill by are totally different. A 22 is best used for game raccoon size and smaller, in a true survival situation I might try to take a whitetail with it if the right shot and distance was presented, 22 magnum would be much better for this purpose. I have shot thousands of rounds of 22LR, maybe hundreds of thousands and some of it was shot at stuff it shouldn't have been, trust me, less than perfect shot placement and your deer will never be recovered. Chris
 
The Savage 24 .22lr/20ga is a sweet gun for the survival niche. That would be my first pick if I were to head into the lower 48 woods for a few weeks. That and my .357 and I´d be a happy camper.

On my Alaska hunt we all had rifles. My rifle was the light weight of the group, .30-06. I also had a .41 Mag Smith Model 57 and a 9 shot Hi-Standard .22 revolver. I kept the .22 revolver in the daypack with 100 rounds of ammo, we took alot of grouse and ptarmigan with it.

The other sidearms on the trip were an eight shot Taurus .357, a 629 .44 mag, and a Walther .22 auto.

A combo gun like the Savage 24 would have been perfect for small game but it would have been hard to carry a hi powered rifle as well. Our typical pattern would be to hunt birds with the .22´s on the way back to the ATV´s or truck. The revolvers worked but an M6 would have been more packable and more effective. Mac
 
Diamond Dog I have had the Outback for less than 6 months and as of yet had not shot it as extensively as I would like. That said I have had one of their Coach guns for several years now (Bought when I used to shoot SASS) it has been shot a great deal and still works like a champ. Time will tell but sofar so good. Rescue Riley I think Remington has discontinued the Spartan line (?) I had looked at one of their gun early on but waited to long. Sorry it has take me so long to reply.
 
I have a question for you all. I know the term 'survival' is kind of general. Are we talking about primitive living conditions where a person will be forced to sustain for long periods? Or a out of no where situation where a person is going to be forced to sustain until rescued on what he/she has on their person? Don't get me wrong, when hunting, I carry a hunting rifle. When killing zombies, I carry the appropriate long guns. Now I think where/when would I be forced to survive in the outdoors. Well, for me when hiking, hunting, offroading (A big one for me, sometimes very remote), or when flying across baren wilderness.

Do you guys carry these 'survival guns' everywhere/everytime you go when in the wilderness? Cause if you don't, how can you call them 'survival' guns? If not, what you do carry will more than likely be your survival gun. Like that J frame in your pocket.

In the case of preplanning for a primitive sustainment circumstance well my choices would be different.
On Foot: Ruger MK II 7.5" pak-lite, and a Lever 45-70 or maybe my lever 30/30, possibly a bolt .223/.308. haven't really deceided on the rifle yet.
If by vehicle: add whatever I can stuff in there.

Any idea's?
 
Diamond Dog said:
A .22 bullet if aimed at the head will literally scramble your brains.
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No, it won't. It'll go straight until it encounters something it cannot punch thru. That's presuming it penetrated the skull at all. If the angle is wrong, it'll skid/bounce off the skull causing a headache for the recipient, nothing more. If it does penetrate, it'll go straight until it hits the opposite side of the skull (presuming it had enough power to do that) it would attempt to penetrate. If there's not enough power, it'll flatten out further. Thinking it'll continue to bouce around and around is simply not true.

The phrase "aimed at the head," assumes that ANYWHERE in the head will suffice. Again, this is simply not true. The skull, also known as the "cranial vault" is thicker in some places and even when penetrated, won't produce a stop anytime soon.

Most do not know that a .22 can be one of the most dangerous rounds.
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ALL rounds are dangerous. One thing I see often is people confusing "killing" with "stopping." These are two different dynamics. A poorly headshot moose might travel a couple miles or further before succumbing to the wound. The .22 "killed" it but it sure didn't "stop" it.

Think about it, if large game can be taken with a bow and arrow as it has since before ammo, why wouldn't a properly placed .22?
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As Running Boar said, the comparison is apples and oranges. When you say "properly placed" when discussing a making a headshot on a moose in the field, you really should say: "placed with extreme surgical precision."........ something that might be obtainable from the bench at the range, but an entirely different proposition afield.

The .22 rimfire from a rifle only has 199 ft lbs or so. It can only do so much !!

.
 
Fieldtestornothing said:
I have a question for you all.

Do you guys carry these 'survival guns' everywhere/everytime you go when in the wilderness? Cause if you don't, how can you call them 'survival' guns? If not, what you do carry will more than likely be your survival gun. Like that J frame in your pocket.
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THIS is the exact problem I've encountered many times when asking this type of question.

I get all kinds of answers (lotta shotguns!) to the "what is your general purpose carry gun while afield when hunting/target shooting is not on the agenda?"

For me, that means a handgun. Also for me, that means NOT a J-frame in the back pocket (regardless of that gun article that suggested a J-frame as the "perfect trail gun....:rolleyes:)

Maybe I should start this as a new thread ?

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