Survival Gear Fallacies

IMO small PSK's serve two purposes; a redundant emergency gear (as someone else mentioned) in case you've lost your main gear, and to serve as a thought exercise for people to get them thinking about the subject of survival or emergency preparedness in the first place.

That last bit isn't just fantasy stuff, it's useful in getting your mindset where it needs to be as well as improve your abilities so that the end result is that you're less likely to find yourself in a situation where that's all you have in the first place. Ideally you'd never have to use it.

Along these lines, building your own PSK is probably the more effective route than buying one from a store because you have a chance to think about what goes in, why, and where you need to splurge on quality gear and where you can make due with basic stuff. It will change over time. Most important once you seem satisfied is testing it. Personally PSK's got me interested in the subject of preparedness in the first place. I store bought one, then decided I could improve on it -- dozens of changes later (and more money than I care to admit I spent) and I'm pretty happy with it. Then I moved onto bigger things.

I admit when I first started, I picked the container (hell that's pretty much all I used of the original kit I bought) and was just cramming stuff in. Over the various iterations however, I've found the proper order is to decide where the PSK fits into the grand scheme of things (stand alone or just there to supplement the EDC?) first, then decide what you need to fulfill that role, and then decide what container you'll use. Yeah, a lot of times it's done backwards, but it's a learning experience.
 
I guess we're going to have a run-on "fallacy" threads now.

Anything could work better for one person than another and this doesn't make something a fallacy.

"Theorizing" is the primary part of survival preparedness and forums such as this and others help us recycle ideas.
 
Good thread. I am no expert but IMO: Survival means alot of different things to alot of different people. The tools needed to survive will depend on the environment you need to survive in, the reason why you were put into that situation and the knowledge that you have to deal with that situation.

We put kits, bags and backpacks together to be ready for a range of scenarios. The small, personal kit which includes the bare essentials may seem useless to one person, but to the owner, they have selected those items because they know how to use them and they know all the other ways that they can use those items to help get through most scenarios that are realistic to their life style. Lets not be silly...of course a fish hook may be useless if you are going to need to survive in a desert, but it could be very useful in southern BC or even Louisiana. I don't know because I don't have desert survival training and not sure what I can use a fish hook for in the desert. That is why there are so many opinions on what goes into these kits.

I have one in my pack because it keeps all these small things in one spot. I have a similiar one in my car. Infact, just recently, I used my space blanket from my car kit on a woman that crashed her car in a ditch. I put that on her and my coat until helped arrived. Not sure if it was keeping her warm, but I could tell it kept her calm! The point...these kits might not be used to get ourselves through a survival situation, but maybe someone else.

But to your point Smithhammer, I know you are not saying that the kits are useless and I agree with your point that long before one makes a kit that perhaps improving on their knowledge and skill will get them further and make their kit more meaningful and useful.

PS Doc, that is a nice Becker and a nice paracord belt!!!!! I am just looking at making one yesterday! How you feeling?
 
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What, you want a list? I've usually got no use for the survival portion of the discussion here, because so little of it is based in reality.
The biggest fallacy isn't about gear, but the idea you're "surviving" any time you go outdoors. It's that irrational perception of the outdoors as a scary and threatening place that drives people to make equally irrational gear choices instead of objectively examining their needs. Survival isn't real to people for whom it's an emotional matter rather than a practical one. Yet those are the ones obsessed with it. They apparently don't spend any time outdoors except to practice survival-in case they get stuck being outdoors, where they're never at to begin with... There's some logic for you.
What a miserable viewpoint to have, anyway. I see no love of the outdoors in people who are terrified of it, and think the only way to spend time there is hacking up and burning parts of it.
Not to mention, acting as if you're required to run some kind of gauntlet any time you step off the pavement isn't going to attract anybody else to the outdoors, either.
That's why I like posting pictures, and appreciate the other people who get out there a lot doing the same, even if the interest in nature's beauty is pretty minimal around here if it involves any kind of physical challenge or commitment of time and/or money. Maybe people who click on here because they are hesitant about the unknown of the outdoors can see that some of us are having a lot of fun, though, and not think of it as scary, because the truth is that there's nothing better.

Pet peeves:
-"gear redundancy". Look up "redundant".
-Altoids tins. I've played with them. They're not waterproof or impact resistant. That's ok, since I'm pretty sure I can stand in the road and spit further into the woods than most of them will ever go.
-Altoids tin knives. Now people want a custom fixed blade knife that's practically unusable since it has to fit in a silly mint tin.
-"skills over gear". The battle cry of people who typically have no apparent skills, except firestarting. They're obsessed with fire. 'Course they use tools(gear) for that.
-"The more you know the less you carry." See above, plus: The more you know, the better suited the things you carry are for what you want to get done. Proper tool for the job, and all.
-First aid kits. Most seem to center around treating things that don't need treatment, not real injuries. Ask them what they'll do if they break a leg, and some doofus will start talking about tying a stick to it.
-"You can't go wrong with (insert brand name)." Brand fanatics are universally ignorant and dishonest.
 
OMG LOL - I just watched "How to survive in an Airport" on NBC and making fire was not one of them! How can this be?
 
russamurai said:
If you don't mind, I'd like to hear your opinion on Quick Clot while you're at it.
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I work at a level one trauma center we also have military medical personel training there and are a teaching hospital. I can walk into the lounge and ask questions of the best emergency doctors in the area. I have been told to leave quick clot to the people trained in it . The only time It should be considered by the average person is if you are hours from help
 
Sufler said:
I guess we're going to have a run-on "fallacy" threads now.

Anything could work better for one person than another and this doesn't make something a fallacy.

"Theorizing" is the primary part of survival preparedness and forums such as this and others help us recycle ideas.
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I think you're missing the point of what I'm suggesting is fallacy. Obviously, what works for one person could be useless to someone else, and what is needed in one environment could be entirely different than another. That's not really what I'm getting at.

And 'theorizing' has its place, as long as its kept in check with experience and practice. Too much of the former and not enough of the latter is precisely what leads to people carrying around little kits of stuff that they've read on an internet forum is "what they need to have."

OwenM said:
What, you want a list? I've usually got no use for the survival portion of the discussion here, because so little of it is based in reality.
The biggest fallacy isn't about gear, but the idea you're "surviving" any time you go outdoors. It's that irrational perception of the outdoors as a scary and threatening place that drives people to make equally irrational gear choices instead of objectively examining their needs. Survival isn't real to people for whom it's an emotional matter rather than a practical one. Yet those are the ones obsessed with it. They apparently don't spend any time outdoors except to practice survival-in case they get stuck being outdoors, where they're never at to begin with... There's some logic for you.
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You make some very good points, Owen.

And I'll just add that I picked Altoids tin kits, as one example, for a reason - because I knew there wouldn't be universal agreement, and I figured it would prompt some healthy discourse. I see the point of a thread like this as educational, as being critical of sacred cows, and as emphasizing that one should decide what to carry based on real-world experience. It's not my intention to get all of us to come to an agreement that Altoids kits are useless (something I don't believe either). Far from it, actually.
 
Smithhammer said:
I think you're missing the point of what I'm suggesting is fallacy. Obviously, what works for one person could be useless to someone else, and what is needed in one environment could be entirely different than another. That's not really what I'm getting at. And 'theorizing' has its place, as long as its kept in check with experience and practice. Too much of the former and not enough of the latter is precisely what leads to people carrying around little kits of stuff that they've read on an internet forum is "what they need to have."
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I come here for entertainment.

:thumbup:
 
Sufler said:
I come here for entertainment.

:thumbup:
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Likewise.

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The whole "survival" concept itself is the biggest fallacy for the majority of people who discuss it. Every time I ask someone what exactly they plan to survive with their uber-knife, altoids tin, ten essentials, etc., I hear crickets. Just what exactly are these "survival situations" people keep getting into, and how are they getting there???

What most people think of as survival is really just camping... Camping with more crap than any sane person would consider carrying.

Survival is about decision making. Part of that decision making is what you carry with you, but that is a VERY small part of it. It's a lot more fun to talk about gear than decision matrixes, and this is a gear forum, but god help anyone who really thinks survival is about the gear.

The most ridiculous "must have" items to me:

"Survival Knife": Near as I can tell the definition of this is an otherwise useful tool that's so overbuilt as to be too heavy to carry and too thick to use. No doubt this will be my demise, but I much prefer knives that are of a size and shape to be useful.

Altoids tin: Yes, they can be handy, but that's really all they are...handy. Mine is full of vicoden, cigarettes, and a fifty dollar bill for when I find a bar.

First Aid Kits on day hikes: Ibuprofen and a clean bandana. If that won't take care of it you either are beyond self-help or are better off walking out and getting proper care.

Paracord bracelets: I'm at risk of pissing myself every time I see one. A bit of paracord can be very handy, but that's what pockets are for.

Multitools: I've tried to love them, but the only time I've ever found a use for one that justified the weight is while riding my motorcycle.

Stupid firestarters: Dryer lint and hand sanitizer comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

Miniature knives: So you've got a belt knife, a pocket knife, and probably a neck knife, but for some reason you need a wallet knife, xacto blade, and some other miniature knife secreted god knows where. WHY??????

Water purification: Again, were back to camping. Unless you live where typhoid and cholera are rampant, water purification is not a survival issue. Water born illnesses take days or weeks to incubate in your gut. If you're not out by then, the squirts are the least of your worries. Anyone who won't drink adequate water because they can't purify it is making poor decisions.

The very idea of the "survival kit": A pre-constructed kit full of stuff I have no immediate use for is NOT something I'll carry around. It doesn't allow for tailoring what you carry to your environment, and the end result is either that you carry things which aren't worth their weight, or you go out with a false sense of security because you have your Survival Kit.
 
sutured said:
The whole "survival" concept itself is the biggest fallacy for the majority of people who discuss it. Every time I ask someone what exactly they plan to survive with their uber-knife, altoids tin, ten essentials, etc., I hear crickets. Just what exactly are these "survival situations" people keep getting into, and how are they getting there???

What most people think of as survival is really just camping... Camping with more crap than any sane person would consider carrying.

Survival is about decision making. Part of that decision making is what you carry with you, but that is a VERY small part of it. It's a lot more fun to talk about gear than decision matrixes, and this is a gear forum, but god help anyone who really thinks survival is about the gear.

The most ridiculous "must have" items to me:

"Survival Knife": Near as I can tell the definition of this is an otherwise useful tool that's so overbuilt as to be too heavy to carry and too thick to use. No doubt this will be my demise, but I much prefer knives that are of a size and shape to be useful.

Altoids tin: Yes, they can be handy, but that's really all they are...handy. Mine is full of vicoden, cigarettes, and a fifty dollar bill for when I find a bar.

First Aid Kits on day hikes: Ibuprofen and a clean bandana. If that won't take care of it you either are beyond self-help or are better off walking out and getting proper care.

Paracord bracelets: I'm at risk of pissing myself every time I see one. A bit of paracord can be very handy, but that's what pockets are for.

Multitools: I've tried to love them, but the only time I've ever found a use for one that justified the weight is while riding my motorcycle.

Stupid firestarters: Dryer lint and hand sanitizer comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

Miniature knives: So you've got a belt knife, a pocket knife, and probably a neck knife, but for some reason you need a wallet knife, xacto blade, and some other miniature knife secreted god knows where. WHY??????

Water purification: Again, were back to camping. Unless you live where typhoid and cholera are rampant, water purification is not a survival issue. Water born illnesses take days or weeks to incubate in your gut. If you're not out by then, the squirts are the least of your worries. Anyone who won't drink adequate water because they can't purify it is making poor decisions.

The very idea of the "survival kit": A pre-constructed kit full of stuff I have no immediate use for is NOT something I'll carry around. It doesn't allow for tailoring what you carry to your environment, and the end result is either that you carry things which aren't worth their weight, or you go out with a false sense of security because you have your Survival Kit.
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Cha-ching.

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sutured said:
Paracord bracelets: I'm at risk of pissing myself every time I see one. A bit of paracord can be very handy, but that's what pockets are for.
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The best reason for me to wear a paracord bracelet is as follows
some one at work " cool bracelet were'd ya get it "
Me " made it myself"
person at work "cool can ya make me one ?"
me "Sure 6 bucks what color do you want?"
I get paracord when I need enough to make free shipping on amazon make bracelets while setting in the easy chair Apply profit to other outdoor stuff

The survival knifelike hatchet that weighs 3 lbs is usually setting at home when you really need it because. one it is to heavy to lug around, or two not apropriate to carry everyday around work, out and about or so on. If you planned for it it isn't survival.. A swiss army knife will get me by I carry a second knife because I'm a knife nut
First aid kit I carry a little more, sudafed, tums, a few bandaids , mole skin for blister care lip balm and a small container of blue emmu cream muscle/joint rub (sucks getting old) But I don't carry a surgical kit, unless your trained in advanced first aid , Alot of stuff will do more harm than Good (quick clot) I work at a level one trauma hospital Doctors ask me whats wrong with their hot water heater , I ask them first aid questions :D
Roy
 
DOC-CANADA said:
It seems that a few people are having a bad day, today. It's not necessary to share.

Doc
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Not really sure what you mean, Doc. Everything I've read has been respectful enough. If it's inappropriate to disagree with widely held beliefs and practices, that's news to me.

I don't see much value in perpetuating illusions and misconceptions (as I see them, fwiw) just to go along with people so their feelings don't get hurt.

The only times I've felt threatened or offended by differing opinions is when my own opinion was built on a poor foundation and thus hard to defend. When I'm sure and confident in my views, differing views don't bother me.
 
Water purification: Again, [we're] . . . back to camping. Unless you live where typhoid and cholera are rampant, water purification is not a survival issue. Water born illnesses take days or weeks to incubate in your gut. If you're not out by then, the squirts are the least of your worries. Anyone who won't drink adequate water because they can't purify it is making poor decisions.
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I have gone backpacking for periods of up to three weeks.

Various studies put the incubation period for giardiasis at as little as one day, with an average being seven days. If you are in the wilderness when explosive, diarrhea, abdominal pain and cramping, vomiting, and nausea hit there may be survival implications.

The average incubation for cryptosporidiosis also seems to be seven days. With an infestation of that parasite you get profuse, explosive, watery diarrhea with cramping, abdominal pains, nausea, anorexia, flatulence malaise and sometimes vomiting, fever or myalgia. Depending on the situation, these symptoms may also have survival implications.

(Then there is the matter of why one would want to risk such symptoms even if you plan to be back home when they hit. Plans always come true?)

The very idea of the "survival kit": A pre-constructed kit full of stuff I have no immediate use for is NOT something I'll carry around. It doesn't allow for tailoring what you carry to your environment, and the end result is either that you carry things which aren't worth their weight, or you go out with a false sense of security because you have your Survival Kit.
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The logic of your other posts is that survival kit should have none of the attributes you use to define such kit in this sentence. We need not "throw the baby out with the bath water."
 
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Thomas Linton said:
The logic of your other posts is that survival kit should have none of the attributes you use to define such kit in this sentence. We need not "throw the baby out with the bath water."
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You're going to have to simplify that for me. I have no idea what you're saying.
 
Useful gear ("kit") can be carried in the pockets. If some (or many) are mistaken about what to carry and what they can, as a practical matter, do with that kit, that does not mean it is wrong to carry the right gear for the right reasons, whatever one chooses to call that collection of kit.

A fire may be all you need - or a button compass - to keep your ass alive.
 
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