Survival Knives--Which would you carry?

[elitebrothers8]

BK-2 for the WIN!!

Yes indeed. I believe it was the right choice. I wont be disappointed

 

[bladerique]

no they are absolutely not, I've seen pictures of the LMFII, not only is it a hidden/concealed tang, but id doesn't even go the Length of the handle.


Full tang doesn't just mean it goes all the way through the handle, otherwise craptastic thin stick tangs would be called "full tang"

edit: oh hey the guy above me covered it, and even with the picture i was thinking of lol.

I was going to jump in and make my case, but chiral.grolim beat me to it (and did a better job than I could have done).

Why is there so much consumerism myopia almost everywhere I look?

 

[elitebrothers8]

I was going to jump in and make my case, but chiral.grolim beat me to it (and did a better job than I could have done).

Why is there so much consumerism myopia almost everywhere I look?

Man, I am really digging the picture. Fits the situation perfectly

 

[jDrex]

I was going to jump in and make my case, but chiral.grolim beat me to it (and did a better job than I could have done).

Why is there so much consumerism myopia almost everywhere I look?

how, by still being wrong about the LMF II?

Between the red and blue lines is HANDLE (not pommel) without the tang extending through it.

 

[oso_blanco]

Given those choices- The becker BK2, by far!

 

[bladerique]

how, by still being wrong about the LMF II?


Between the red and blue lines is HANDLE (not pommel) without the tang extending through it.

otherwise craptastic thin stick tangs would be called "full tang"

By that.

 

[jDrex]

By that.

yes, lets focus on an exaggeration and not the topic at hand *rolleyes*

I will admit the definition I've always been taught about different tang types may be "wrong" in regards to a full tang extending the entire width of the handle, however I am right on the fact that the LMF II is not a full tang.

 

[bladerique]

yes, lets focus on an exaggeration and not the topic at hand *rolleyes*

I will admit the definition I've always been taught about different tang types may be "wrong", however I am right on the fact that the LMF II is not a full tang.

I don't know who I trust less, reviewers with a possible agenda or manufacturers with an obvious agenda. The thing looks like it isn't "full tang". Have there been failures [or one failure] as with the Gryllis 1st gen knife?

I don't have the LMFII, or any other Gerb product [thinking about the Parang though]. Plenty of seemingly intelligent and experienced guys like the LMFII -- are they ignorant?

 

[jDrex]

I don't know who I trust less, reviewers with a possible agenda or manufacturers with an obvious agenda. The thing looks like it isn't "full tang". Have there been failures [or one failure] as with the Gryllis 1st gen knife?

I don't have the LMFII, or any other Gerb product [thinking about the Parang though]. Plenty of seemingly intelligent and experienced guys like the LMFII -- are they ignorant?

No idea, nor do I think the blade is faulty, poorly built, or only owned by the ignorant.

 

[bladerique]

Alright then. And what does it all matter really? It's the man, not the knife.

 

[elitebrothers8]

To everybody regarding the argument on the LMF II tang. Between the tang and the pommel there is a SMALL gap which is for shock absorption for when you use the pommel.

 

[jDrex]

Alright then. And what does it all matter really? It's the man, not the knife.

I honestly don't really think it matters much, I just prefer a full tang in a "my life depends on this knife" situation.

 

[PunisherLcr]

To everybody regarding the argument on the LMF II tang. Between the tang and the pommel there is a SMALL gap which is for shock absorption for when you use the pommel.

Actually the main reason for the gap is so you don't cop a boot through the pommel if you have to cut through live electrical cable.

 

[elitebrothers8]

Actually the main reason for the gap is so you don't cop a boot through the pommel if you have to cut through live electrical cable.

Yeah you are right as well. I forgot about that! Thanks

 

[RandomAyes]

......

 

[HoosierQ]

Wow that picture of the disected LMFII is an eye-opener. Now I want to take the handle off of mine and make a spear Ever since I was a kid, I wanted to take the blade off of a knife and make a spear...my mom freaked out and that was that...40 years ago I mean.

Anyway...good choice on the BK2. I am, personally, an ESEE man but I want to hook up with some Becker products someday. I like the Magnum Camp. Very distinctive blade profile.

 

[GaryXD]

Nice pics of the LMF. Does anyone have any dissected Prodigy pics?

 

[GingivitisKahn]

I can and do hammer with Beckers 2 & 9. I baton them, pry stuff, throw #2 at trees (damned maples!), shove #9 under the wobbly leg of a step ladder, and other misadventures that I wouldn't attempt with my stick tang knives. The Beckers can take it. That experience I do have.

<off topic>
The BK2 is sturdy but it is *not* a throwing knife. It's a terrible idea and a good way to break a nearly indestructible knife. You can spend a very few dollars and buy a proper throwing knife that is tempered appropriately for the activity.

Sorry - back to the topic at hand...
</off topic>

---

Beckerhead #42

 

[chiral.grolim]

I know the OP has already selected a knife, but this seems like a good conversation to keep going.

I see in another post that you own a Gerber LMF. My apologies if you took my comments as a personal attack on your baby. It's not personal. I was just trying to point the OP in the direction which has worked for me.

No worries, i did not take it personally. And i agree with encouraging the OP away from the LMFII for the purposes he specified.:thumbup: Not the right tool. I have neither the BK2 nor the Prodigy so could not comment really on either except in reference to the LMFII and other knves of similar size that I do own.

I do own an LMFII which is why am i comfortable speaking of it, it's capabilities, use, etc. empirically. Anyone who does NOT own one or has not used one one heavily should be honest and state that all their opinions regarding said tool are entirely theoretical, i.e. they have no physical evidence to back up the claim.

But owning and using the LMFII does not make it my "baby" . I'm not a soldier, the knife was not designed with me in mind, I by FAR prefer my Catt225Q or RatManDu, or even my HRLM as my "survival"-style knives - fewer military-specific attributes, less weight.:thumbup:

Treating a knife like a hammer is abusive.

No, it isn't, not if the knife was designed with the specific application in mind (just as there are knives made for throwing, which constitutes harsh abuse of those not made for such tasks). If the knife was so designed, that makes it a multi-purpose tool. If it fails under such use, then the design was faulty. The BG knife has a hammer-pommel and Gerber states it's use as such - if it fails in such use, the design was flawed not the knife was abused by using it a suggested

If you think there's a chance you'll need to hammer with a knife in a survival scenario then the smart money goes for a full length & full width tang. More metal is never a bad thing when it comes to hammering. The majority of hard use survival knives have full width & full length tangs. Becker. ESEE. Tops. Busse. Fehrman. Every knife in the WSS Bushcraft Knife Challenge, IIRC. Those respected knifemakers are putting extra steel in the back end for a reason, hey?

Again, the Cattaraugus 225Q has perhaps the single BEST hammer-pommel on any knife ever made (I am open to alternative opinions regarding this, this is just my opinion) and it is NOT full width tang, neither are the KaBars, Randalls, Fallkniven NL series, Bucks, Moras, and nearly any Puukko-style knife you ever come across - the MAJORITY of "hard use survival knives" actually in use! The word for those full-width (in all directions) knives is "over-built". No offense to those manufacturers you mentioned - great tools, esp. Busse - over-built is exactly what they strive for, it sells and ti is certainly dependable: if your is over-built, it can be insufficient, right?:thumbup:

I agree, more metal is not a bad thing for hammering - hence the Catt225Q pommel as well as the LMFII pommel - but excess metal adds unnecessary weight and may not improve strength or performance to a degree noticable in normal or even heavy use. Full-width gives little if any noticable contribution when hammering. Think about the stress vectors.

As to "the WSS Bushcraft Knife Challenge, IIRC." I think i already covered this

Plastic injected around a hidden stick tang...

Oh, is that how they made that form-fitted, rubber over-moulded, glass-reinforced nylon handle??? That doesn't sound accurate... Do you work at the factory? No offense, it sounds like you're proffering false information is all.

...is most definitely cheaper and easier to manufacture than a complete tang. A true full tang almost doubles the stock usage. It also nearly doubles the area which requires milling, drilling, and grinding processes, plus coating. This is not a half-baked opinion. It's just a fact.

This is all based on specific manufacturing process - how you make a specific model of knife, and which materials/processes are more expensive. For example, how much of the design is stamped out of the metal stock initially (vs. being milled, ground, etc.) varies among producers. Second, take another look at that LMFII pommel, at the amount of metal that needed to be specifically milled & ground, etc. and from a separate stock! That is not a simple piece, and there was a complex bit of machinery involved. Your "fact" has nothing to do with the cost and simplicity of constructing the LMFII design because the design is not as simple as partial vs "complete" tang.

You got one part right, that I have no personal experience with the LMF. I was considering adding one to my collection, but then I saw a YouTube vid where some batoning cracked the plastic handle...

LOL *sigh*

And i take it that the video your referring to is the "Doggorunning"(?) guy? Did you catch how he completely mis-diagnoses what went 'wrong'?
(Gosh, and people say the "hockey-mask" Noss is a buffoon )

I recommend you watch Noss' D-Test of the knife (where that tang picture originates) before commenting further on its theoretical capabilities. And note from the Destruction-test (and that picture) that the tang held up just fine.

But again I'll mention, the LMFII is NOT (nor would I recommend it as) a "bushcraft" knife (what we called "woodcraft" in my youth, having actual trees here in the USA vs. Britain's lack thereof). It is a specialized tool for military applications, and it excels, not that others don't, and not that there aren't "better" knives.

I can and do hammer with Beckers 2 & 9. I baton them, pry stuff, throw #2 at trees (damned maples!), shove #9 under the wobbly leg of a step ladder, and other misadventures that I wouldn't attempt with my stick tang knives. The Beckers can take it. That experience I do have.

I believe you. :thumbup: Great knives, an no disrespect intended to them by defending a different knife. If you are scared that your "stick" tang knives won't hold up, then your money will go to the over-built knives, and there is nothing wrong with spending your money to get what you want.
For comparison, I'm afraid of liner-less 'hard-use' folding knives (e.g. SOG Trident) - not that I've had one fail on me, and not that one wouldn't hold up, but I'm just more confident in a different design, even if it is "over-built".
For another comparison, does anyone actually need INFI?

 

[RandomAyes]

......