"Survival" Overload

baldtaco-II said:
To my mind there's a disproportionately low representation of people that work in genuinely perilous conditions that show up. One just doesn't see many mountaineers, polar explorers, potholers, RNLI, RAF search and rescue, Ultramarathon event folk showing up. I'm not saying they don't, but those people with topical / tasks based survival skills a blatantly dwarfed by the amount of people doing recreational stuff and the often quoted “overnighter” less than five miles from the vehicle.
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The only survival situation I was ever involved in occurred less than 5 miles from my vehicle. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if someone added up the numbers more people doing recreational stuff aka day hikes, overnighters, fishing, hunting etc etc probably get into trouble more often (total numbers) than those involved in the activities you cited. Just like most accidents probably occur within the home.

On a side note 5 miles can be a long distance. Trust me on this. :(
 
Woods Walker said:
The only survival situation I was ever involved in occurred less than 5 miles from my vehicle. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if someone added up the numbers more people doing recreational stuff aka day hikes, overnighters, fishing, hunting etc etc probably get into trouble more often (total numbers) than those involved in the activities you cited. Just like most accidents probably occur within the home.

On a side note 5 miles can be a long distance. Trust me on this. :(
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Thats right. Look at this case. This happened right on the ski resorts property.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...2/25/bc-kicking-resort-ski-resort-rescue.html
 
I was just thinking about a similar experience. I ended up spending the night in the Rockies a mile from base camp because of stupidity (got too far from camp searching for brown critters). Ended up spending the night on the mountain LUCKILY my father taught me to always have certain gear and how to use it in my hunting bag. Instead of a freezing cold dark night full of hunger, I had fire, food and shelter. It wasnt ideal but certainly things could have been worse.

wanted to add: It almost worked out better for me that I sletp up there, I didnt have to take the hike up the mountain my dad had too at 5am;)
 
I think the whole "Survival" thing is some clever marketing. Let me explain.

Back in the early 1980's I had a BMX bike and I used to race it competitively. Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's a bunch of guys and I did a lot of skiing (backcountry etc). It was around the early to mid 1990's when a bunch of marketing guys saw what guys like me were doing, saw that it had a "neato" appeal and attached a moniker to it - EXTREME! I didn't think of any of the stuff we were doing as EXTREME I just was out having fun. We were just doing what we were doing and some guys attached a label to it that made us feel sort of douchey.

Now, something else that I've always done (from about 4 years old on) - hunting, fishing, backpacking, camping etc. has been seized on by some clever marketing guys and labeled SURVIVAL. I don't think of the stuff I am outdoors doing as SURVIVAL any more than I thought of backcountry skiing as EXTREME. Eventually the SURVIVAL label will lose its glitter, just like EXTREME did and all the attention will drift elsewhere and I can do what I do in peace..
 
I always thought 'survival' training and enjoying the outdoors were compatible endeavors. You probably have the highest probability of NEEDING survival skills while afield, doing your normal routine anyway.
 
averageiowaguy said:
I think the whole "Survival" thing is some clever marketing.
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Does anybody else remember the whole survival knife craze back in the 80s? Rambo made it real cool to have a knife with a hollow handle!

Most of the "survival" knives were garbage, not to mention if you were willing to lug a big 10" knife on your leg... You could have just lugged a knife a 1/3 that size and a decent survival pack and be good to go!

The whole survival show craze that seems to be going around now has created a few more "arm chair" survivalists than there used to be. But, maybe some of these arm chair guys will get serious and save a life or two someday!
 
Woods Walker said:
The only survival situation I was ever involved in occurred less than 5 miles from my vehicle. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if someone added up the numbers more people doing recreational stuff aka day hikes, overnighters, fishing, hunting etc etc probably get into trouble more often (total numbers) than those involved in the activities you cited. Just like most accidents probably occur within the home.

On a side note 5 miles can be a long distance. Trust me on this. :(
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I won't contest that. It also serves my point rather well too. Those people doing apparently perilous things tend to focus on exactly what gear is required to survive and the necessary relevant skills to survive. For example I wonder how many firemen have ended up in the casualty department in my county in the last 6 months vs how many mountain bikers. I bet the peddlers outnumber the firefolk by rather a lot. Why, because the firefolk train with relevance. Their survival skills usually preclude them being in a survival situation because they are task focused and relevant.

Same kinda thing with what your saying I suspect, people load up on the wrong kind of skills or kit. We see folk here all the time with loads of bux obviously invested in knives yet the quibble over the price of a decent size shelter. A guy can whittle a spoon with his funky crook knife but isn't savvy enough to get himself a decent set of waterproofs to get off the hill with. A different bloke learns all the skills to build an igloo with a birch bark shovel in who cares where, despite mebe never having left his own country, but goes all brown-adrenaline when a coyote comes within 200m of him. Dippy drives to his familiar picnic spot but didn't learn how to drag his vehicle out of a ditch because he was away with the faeries leaning how to turn his undersmackers into slingshot that'll apparently take down a moose instead.

The spirit of what I was saying wasn't that there was anything wrong with 'pack a sandwich' dayhikes [I do those too], or with a general study of survival skills outside of what you personally are likely to encounter [I do that as well], just that here survival is a bucket category that means whatever it means to the one holding the concept. As such, in reply to the OP, I was putting the case that there cannot be an “overload of survival” here because most of if lacks any specific central tasks.
 
The mental aspects of survival - trying to "be prepared" (Boys Scouts and John Wiseman); determining and prioritizing needs; assessing resources; planning; thinking "outside the box" -- apply to many unexpected situations in life. It's good mental "exercise" for life in general. And practicing the skills gets you outdoors.
 
I live in New Zealand. The government constantly has Ads on TV about being prepared (for earthquakes particularly).
Some people bother with the advice. A lot don't.
That's till a big earthquake devastated a major city a couple of months ago (Christchurch). Many dead.
It was truly amazing to hear all the stories as they came out live on radio and TV. You learn a lot from real stories, live.
EVERYONE got a shock and most people are VERY aware of some of the things one might need in such a situation.
It's not EOTW armageddon. But basic urban survival.
The University where I work (the largest in the country) is issuing every staff member with bug out bags for their offices - thousands of employees.
My 5 year old's school requires parents to stock a survival bag for the kids. It's kept in the class room. This is more like photo's of parents, plasters, torch, tins of food, a spoon, metal blanket etc.
Then Japan had it's disaster.
Remarkable reminder of what can happen in cities. I hope I never experience it!
 
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Thomas Linton said:
The mental aspects of survival - trying to "be prepared" (Boys Scouts and John Wiseman); determining and prioritizing needs; assessing resources; planning; thinking "outside the box" -- apply to many unexpected situations in life. It's good mental "exercise" for life in general. And practicing the skills gets you outdoors.
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I couldn't agree more with that. In fact, Brian Jones recent post “The First Rule of Survival Is...” was so on target. And whilst anecdotal it did amuse me to note that every Blue Waffle here I've added to my bozo bin because of their repeated emotional outbursts, and their ad hominem playing the man and not the ball styles, have been exactly the kind of people that go on the “flapper, useless, I'd eat you first” pile. Conversely, some contrary and argumentative SOBs like SouthernCross and Doc Canada come across a polite, courteous, and exactly the kind of people that think in the way you describe. They present as potentially excellent value to your team no matter how much you may agree or disagree with them. udtjim would be another, but there's a clue in his name as to why he presents as stoic. I believe there is a style of thinking that some people can cultivate that makes them good at this stuff where others may flounder. And this is distinct from specific articles of knowledge.
 
Smithkzn, you bring a up a good point. The bail out bag is second to knowledge when it comes to living through an unfortunate experience like your countrymen faced--- I think its kinda cool that people explore options and tools to make a very heavy subject a little lighter. Having fun with the gear could make it more relevant and fun for kids too. And get em outside.
 
jaymeister99 said:
Does anybody else remember the whole survival knife craze back in the 80s?
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Hell yes!!!
I was going to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with the wire saw, catch 18 tasty fish with the hooks and thread, grill it with the fire started by the cheap matches, then trek out of the woods using my trusty pommel compass, ALL FOR FIVE DOLLARS!!!
Ah, the 80's.:D
 
For me, "survival" is often one of the many excuses I use to buy cool gear and get out in the elements.

I think it definitely does have a place though. I have realized that the number one reason that I don't want to die in some disaster or stranded out in the desert because I hadn't done some preparation and stored some key gear is not that I think that it would be such a tragedy that I died out there (I would take it over a hospital bed), but that I would feel stupid for not preparing. I think of some of the big earthquakes that are likely going to be much greater disasters than, say, Katrina, and I know that 95% of the people and families don't have basic supplies to last them even a week. I don't want to be thinking about how stupid I was for not storing some water, etc. when it was abundantly available for years leading up to the disaster.

Also, I feel like I have a responsiblity to be prepared for others who might find themselves in a pickle, especially because I am often the one leading my friends and loved ones out on crazy a#$ escapades.
 
I don't think too many people on here ' Worry about Survival ', we do practice skills that would help us to make it through a survival situation but we do this because we enjoy doing so not because we live in fear !

Everytime I venture out ,which as regulars on here know is a hell of a lot, I have a blast. Sometimes I practice skills, other times I just enjoys the sights and sounds of the forest but whatever I do in the outdoors is always enjoyed with a passion second to none.
 
It has been fun designing urban survival kits. researching flashlights etc.
What amazed me is the vast number of "survival stores" populating the web, and traditional knife stores, hardware stores, camping stores with mandatory survival sections.
Most of the ready-to-buy 72-hr kits etc are full of inferior (read USELESS) things. Silly plastic wind-up flashlights of about 1 lumen, with integrated radio, siren, whistle and kitchen sink!
I think they give the owner a sense of "I'll be ok in a disaster scenario".
Lots of hype. You can never be over prepared - they'll milk you for every cent!
It starts with a home kit, a car kit, an office kit.... the next thing you'll be shopping for is Zombie killing gear.
 
pitdog said:
I don't think too many people on here ' Worry about Survival ', we do practice skills that would help us to make it through a survival situation but we do this because we enjoy doing so not because we live in fear !

Everytime I venture out ,which as regulars on here know is a hell of a lot, I have a blast. Sometimes I practice skills, other times I just enjoys the sights and sounds of the forest but whatever I do in the outdoors is always enjoyed with a passion second to none.
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Like I said, I didn't mean to imply anything negative, like that you "live in fear". I meant people dwell on something that I consider negative (i.e. having to 'survive' outside), and they might miss out on some of the other, more positive sides of the outdoors. If that's what you find fun, that's fine. I just think it gets a little tiring after a while.
 
If you head out to any kind of remote area on a regular basis and don't try and learn a skill or two that may help in a "survival" situation, to me is the same as taking a road trip and not knowing how to change a tire. Sure you probably won't need to, but it's a comforting skill to have. Plus it's fun, it's challenging and it's rewarding to learn new things.
 
tknife said:
If you head out to any kind of remote area on a regular basis and don't try and learn a skill or two that may help in a "survival" situation, to me is the same as taking a road trip and not knowing how to change a tire. Sure you probably won't need to, but it's a comforting skill to have. Plus it's fun, it's challenging and it's rewarding to learn new things.
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I don't make the same comparison. I already know how to change a tire, so I don't need to practice doing it every time I go out for a drive on the Parkway. Every time that I go out fishing, I don't need to practice making a fire with a firesteel. I'm not saying I couldn't learn more about "survival" and such, but I'm fairly confident in myself, and I don't dwell on it enough to practice it all the time, when I could be thinking about the other fun thing I'm doing. Just like I don't dwell on hitting a nail on those beautiful mountain roads. That's not to say I don't like to pick up new skills every once in a while, but it's not an all the time mind-set.
 
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