"Survival" Overload

[KEmSAT-Survival]

If Nesmuk and Kephart were around today would they be backpackers? bushcrafters? survival experts? They had the skills to be any of them and all three fields claim them to be forefathers of their respective movements. In the end though, each of these individuals chose to make a living, or at least supplement their income, by writing magazine articles and books sharing their outdoor experience. I suspect if they lived today that they would champion themselves in a defined subset field above, realize that books are but one of many avenues for income and education, have youtube videos and perhaps a TV-show. For every Nesmuk and Kephart, there were thousands of folks who chose not to write books or magazine articles and just live their backcountry/mountain man lives in their own way. However, I don't begrudge Nesmuk and Kephart for their contributions. Make no doubt that they were marketing themselves as well.

It's Shawn, btw. Call me Shawn. I was teaching (and plan on running courses again starting next year if I don't die first) when I made this username. Anyhow, I wanted to reply to this the other day and forgot.

What would Kephart and the other guys say if they were alive? I think it'd go something along the lines of: "What a stupid ass thing to be arguing over. I'm goin' outside."

 

[jaymeister99]

Good stuff Doc and I agree with your thoughts.

While we are on the topic of older pictures proving our manhoods, while doc was doing all that good stuff, my parents put me on the diet of champions.

Man I miss Canadian beer!

Do they still sell Molson Bradour and Special Dry?

 

[sodak]

I think a lot of good points have been made. I used to post a lot more than I currently do, based upon family obligations. In my younger days, I would spend a LOT of time in the woods, but just don't have that luxury any more. After the kids are on their own, I hope to get back to it. Until then, I have to live through Doc, Pit, and all the others. I'm lucky to get into the woods more than 2 or 3 times a year. Changing positions in life puts different priorities on people. When I was younger and in the Army (late 70's to early 80's), I had no money but lots of time. So I focused on skill development. Now I have no time, but some money, so I'm focusing on gear. Hopefully, before I die, I can bring the 2 together.

One thing that I do think is a dangerous path to tread is the cult of personality. Too often I see someone attempting to make a point by stating something like, "well, <insert name here> uses it/says so". I respect many of you and your opinions, but reserve the right to agree or disagree. I'm sure you all feel the same way. For example, Mors is a great asset, I've read some of his books multiple times. I like learning about firecraft, woodcraft, and herbal medicine. But one of his tests for a good knife is to pound it into a tree and stand on it to see if it is strong enough. Huh? Sorry, but that's ludicrous to me. I'm not into tree climbing, and if I wanted to do that, I would never use a knife for that. So I disagree with him on that particular test, but that's ok. He is enough of an expert that he warrants serious attention by me, but not necessarily automatic agreement. And I do take him seriously, as well as many others. Nessmuk has some great info, but he was a real *(&*%*(&. If you read his books, you will probably be immediately stuck how incredibly childish he was in treating his camping partners. He also commonly left his wife and kids literally begging for food in the streets while he played in the woods. So I respect his knowledge, but I also have a VERY low opinion of him as a man.

Those are just 2 examples, I'm sure you all have many more. If this forums degrades into a personality cult, that would be a very bad thing. If folks are really good at what they know, then they can explain why, rather than "because I said so". Keep in mind that many people coming here new are not necessarily new to the outdoors, just new to this forum. None of my remarks are aimed at anyone specific here, just general thoughts of mine.

I enjoy all the things here, whether it's stocking up for zombies, or identifying edibles. It's all good, and I always learn a TON. The diversity is what keeps me coming back.

 

[j williams]

He is enough of an expert that he warrants serious attention by me, but not necessarily automatic agreement.

Sodak thats a fantastic way to put it. (I know its kinda OT, but dang thats lucid)


I dont understand what the deal is here. If your in the dirt, regardless if its bushcrafting, practcing survival tech, bird watching, mountain biking, fishing, hunting, etc...From Alaska to a backyard in the burbs...YOU ARE IN THE DIRT. Thats all that should matter. We share a common interest in the outdoors. Why do we have to judge one another?

I have loved to watch peoples skillset evolve over the years. One of the benifits of a long term membership I guess. Ive seen guys start green, and are now some of the most skilled individuals on the forum. Its pretty awesome.

Ill admit, I sometimes let stuff get to me waaay more then it should. Like the 17 page threads on batoning, and the 8 page dual survival bear grylls stuff, always on the front page, and the truely skilled posts go straight to the bottom. I know what it takes to do these skills, and get out there and shoot 30 pics while you are working. It makes me feel bad for the guys who get out all excited about doing skills, and come to post up and it gets no love. Nature of the beast I guess. The fact of the matter is we need to respect eachothers opinions, and be encouraging in our posts, and stop judging. If Tonym(for example) is has a ton of skills, or no skills, or is a prepper, or backpacker, or survivalist, its no skin off my back. I will tell ya though Ive learned alot of cool tricks from folks who arent into the same aspect of this stuff as me. Thats the common thread we share. The gear whores also tend to have a ton of great kit knowladge, even if they cant carve a woodlore or survive in the woods with just a knife. It still has its place.

 

[tonym]

If you clicked 'The Great Outdoors" forum on bladeforums you have something in common with everyone here. We should try celebrating that instead of trying to one up each other. I enjoy the gear section as much as I enjoy the skills section here. I love when people post pics, and I love the sharing of info, ideas, pics, and experience. The difference of opinion on things keep this place diverse and interesting. I like seeing different ways of doing the same thing, as sometimes I learn it's a better way.

I appreciate any good info given, and I don't give a damn if it was learned from a book or from spending time out in the wilds. Good info is good info. I will say something with respect to a poster giving bad info calling it good however. And I expect someone to call me on it if I am giving bad info thinking it is good.

For anyone who thinks that you need to be out of a cell phone service area to be in the real bush, or you need to post pics and or vids to back up your skill set, and you want to call everyone a poser for practicing skills in their backyard instead of 150 miles from civilization, or your hard wood is the only true test of a knife, I would say no matter how many wilderness skills you possess, you failed to learn the most important skill. SOCIAL SKILLS...

 

[j williams]

Well said Tony......The firecraft thread I just posted was in the Lamine River valley, about a mile from a major highway, and I got 2 phone calls while I was working. Doesnt take away from the content one bit IMO.

 

[OwenM]

I've changed my mind. Now that I've read this thread, and realized that I'm not only in the woods, but also without cell phone coverage on a weekly basis, it has become clear to me what surviving really is.
I want to see pics from now on. No more sidestepping, whining, and justifying. If you post a survival, bushcraft, hiking, camping, hunting, etc. thread without including proof positive that you have been without wireless coverage, I'm afraid I'm going to be forced to decry your alleged wilderness outings as non-events. They might as well not have happened. It's time we get real around here, people
Look here..yesterday AND this morning. Bow to me...

Holy crap. Look at that! There's a voicemail message, and I can't even check it..and good Lord, where are the bathrooms?!?
[youtube]Pee6CD7f3U4[/youtube]

I really did get tickled thinking about this thread

 

[kgd]

lmao Owen.......btw....can you eat that????? You might first check by using it as TP first and see what happens

I also hear that you can take the battery out of that non-functional cell phone and use the zipper of your fly to start a fire

 

[Woods Walker]

delete

 

[mikehopkins]

I dont want to squeeze moisture out of dung to drink or walk around barefoot or cut myself to cauterize the wound BUT it doesnt mean i wont if there is no better plan to keep me and mine alive. Thats what i read these forums for. I get alternative options. Lots of plan Bs. I dont care if the green belt behind your condo is as far out of doors as you get, or if you live in the deepest wilderness. You post away because it just might be something that keeps me alive. Credentials? No need. Fresh ideas and bringing up old skills i may never have heard of is what keeps me reading here. Now if someone would publish a recipe to kill off the damn lawn gnomes...they are as big a menace as Zombies! (Joke)

 

[Rsmith_77]

Now if someone would publish a recipe to kill off the damn lawn gnomes...they are as big a menace as Zombies! (Joke)

thats no joke man,
lawn gnomes are devious little b#*tards who are planning our downfall! Pre-emptive strike i say!

 

[upnorth]

I 've lived and worked in some of the worst parts of NYC for the past 17 years and I can tell you I feel much safer on my worst day in the woods than on some of my best days at work.
.

I agree totally. I've lived on the streets of Toronto\Vancouver many years ago. I have always said to my wife that I'd rather take my chances with four legged predators, than the two legged. Yes I also like to peruse these forums and I add useful information to my store of knowledge. Some guys go hard on the bow drill, trap stuff. That's fine. I'm not into it that deep and keep it lighter. I can be deep in the Boreal forest in a few minutes but my appreciation is no greater than a fellow living in a major city. That guy may well have far more ''survival knowledge'' than myself and better skill sets. That's fine with me, they don't award medals out there and I'm quite content to fart around as I do. We are all here out of interest\appreciation of the outdoors. No I don't go off the far end, but the hard cores do teach me, so I appreciate them also.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

If you head out to any kind of remote area on a regular basis and don't try and learn a skill or two that may help in a "survival" situation, to me is the same as taking a road trip and not knowing how to change a tire. Sure you probably won't need to, but it's a comforting skill to have. Plus it's fun, it's challenging and it's rewarding to learn new things.

What he said. It is rare enough that I get out to the woods. I want to know how to take care of my big bulk if something happens in the woods.

I am part of the emergency response team at work (regular employee response unit), and our main job is keeping everyone safe until first responders arrive in an actual emergency. In a situation akin to the tsunami/earthquake/nuclear disaster in Japn; or the devestating tornadoes in the south, especially the one in Joplin MO, the fire/police/EMT's will be some time before getting to you. The three best ways to prepare for an emergency are

1. effective planning
2. ongoing training
3. DRILLS!

The members in my building are assigned specific tasks, and specific areas. If we don't drill, then we have to worry about more than the emergency at hand and reactions to it.

When you're out in the "wilds", if you have planned for your emergency, even attended "bush/woodcraft training", but have never "drilled" while out in the woods, you're going to have a problem.

My planning, drills and training have a lot of room for improvement. I have lucked out in hanging out with and meeting a lot of very knowledgeable people on here. I need to get out more and drill.

So, I come here and read about it. Drills, whether they be shelter building, making a camp/emergency fire or setting up a trap, are important. I don't want to say "we", because I tend to lurk here as opposed to other spots on BF, but a lot of members in WSS might go overboard. However, as long as we are still having fun in our wild of choice, let's go for it.

Reading Kephart, Stroud and Kochanski, their skills are not the main focus for me. They enjoyed their time out in the woods. As long as we keep that in mind, we should be okay.