"Survival" Overload

[jaymeister99]

Natural disasters like floods, tornadoes, severe winter storms, hurricanes, earthquakes, and serious power outages create conditions, like the wilderness, where you may be unexpectedly thrown, more or less, on your own resources for a time.

As in any crisis, you will do better in an urban wilderness if you think straight, prioritize and plan, are creative, and remain determined to survive. Preparation will likely make your situation better. You may have water issues, need to start a fire, need to navigate, need to stay dry (or prevent overheating), need to signal, or have to deal with first aid. Survival skills.

Most of us hope to never have to use these skills, as we hope not to need collision insurance. But neither the skills nor the insurance are bad ideas.

Yup. I was thinking today while on an island in the Bahamas (I'm on vacation!). My camping gear will cover for the most part any suburban emergency. Without risking sounding like a zombie killer I still think I could put together a little more emergency preparedness. It can't hurt. I'm really thinking more along the lines of personal protection and safety items. The fire starters, food, water, first aid I got well covered at home. Problem is you risk sounding like a 2012 apocaylpto if you get too serious about it!

 

[smithkzn]

Today my wife had a car accident. The other car's driver had a bleeding head wound. Fortunately, since equipping our cars with 'survival' bags (a couple of months ago), my wife could apply a QuikClot. And the other woman's wound was nicely sorted till the ambulance arrived and took her to hospital. My wife is fine.

 

[sursum knife]

Mist again cool pics

 

[demoteamone]

If you think that survival is just few techniques combined & People make money about it....
Yes, undoubtedly in particular the WEB is Overload of it.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

I think that some camping gear is great to have, for camping or for urban survival. If you can boil water when the power is out (like it was for many Christchurch residents after the earthquake) and have a sleeping bag, bedroll & tent (handy if your house falls down in an earthquake/tornado/tsunami) then you are better off.

I think that practising survival skills is fine if you enjoy it, but just going camping and enjoying some time in the wilderness is fun and does teach you some useful skills - maybe one day you'll be camping out in a public park after your house is destroyed by some natural disaster - camping skills will be pretty darned handy at that point.

I have bought camping gear and gone camping a few times, it is reassuring to know that I have that gear available if I need it for survival purposes, but I really don't care to practise survival skills JUST to have survival skills. Having fun while learning a few things is great though. I have food that I will eat - but in an emergency that stock of food could become a life saver (packet & canned foods that last for a long time). I don't buy food just for survival, but food that I can eat at home or take camping can often be useful survival food too.

Anyone that is feeling overloaded with survival stuff can just ignore it - no biggie. Enjoy life and worry about survival if you are ever in a survival situation (but keep useful gear at hand, just in case).

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day mdsmith

I was reading another thread on this forum, and someone made a comment saying something like : People are worrying too much about survival, and not enough about just enjoying the outdoors. I've been thinking a lot about that post, and I think the poster is right. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy talking about, reading and practicing "survival" skill, as well as all of the cool survival gear. It just seems that TOO much emphisis is placed on survival. It seems like there must have been a point, before all of the survival shows and forums, when a survival course, and a PSK were things that would benifit someone who spent a lot of time outdoors (ie. hunters, mountain bikers, fisherman) in case something happened while they were doing what they do. It seems that now survival itself IS the hobby for a lot of people. Reading, posting, watching videos, buying gear, and even going out and practicing. But why do you need to worry about survivng in the first place if their isn't some other reason that you are outdoors in the first place? Are you learning to survive in case the next time you're out practicing survival skills, something happens? I know this doesn't apply to everyone here. I'm sure a lot of you were outdoors people before you got into survival. I'm also not trying to down anyone, it was just a thought I had after reading the post mentioned earlier.

IMO, this is a very perceptive opinion. thumbup:

As a matter of fact, it was the very reason why I stopped posting here.

It seemed to me that this forum was being dominated by people who couldn't show they had even spent any time outdoors. :thumbdn:

IMO, this forum used to be pretty typical of all internet forums that pretended to be focussed on "survival". :thumbdn::thumbdn:

Whilst there are plenty that will "talk the talk", there are few who will actually show that "they walk the walk".

IMO, if anyone has a digital camera that will show their "shiny new kinfe stuck in a piece of wood", they should be able to show it in use, right?

Or is this too much to ask?

Let me just say that after nearly 8 years of reading internet forums, I've come to the conclusion that "seeing really is believing".

But I'll say, what the F___ has happened recently to this forum?

It used to be the case here, where just one area of bushcraft was effectively ignored (ie edible plant material) by those whose only focussed was on gear and could't show any evidence that they actually spent any time in areas that didn't have mobile phone / cell phone reception. :jerkit:

The last couple of pages here, all of a sudden seem to show a realisation by more than just a few, that edible plant material might just be an important resource in an often talked about hypothetical "survival situation".

I've got to ask......what the F___ is going on here?





Kind regards
Mick

 

[not2sharp]

Thinking about survival is about thinking, which is much better mode then mindless panic. The techniques and tools/toys may or may not help, but the approach is sound and healthier then the alternative. Even in the worse case scenario, sitting there thinking about it beats running into a tree or off a cliff.

n2s

 

[kgd]

Mick, I sort of understand your stance but I disagree with you that forming an exclusive club of experts provides for meaningful community. You are absolutely correct that gear whoredom takes precedence over skills in most places but that doesn't mean everybody is some kind of poser and what might be total fascination with gear at one time can be replaced with fascination with skills at another. Afterall, I only signed on to bladeforums because I liked knives and while I did backpacking and car camping it was very much a gear centric activity. I never really learned about primitive methods until coming to this place and while I have tonnes and tonnes to learn, I think that I have successfully shifted myself from gear-focus to skills focus. Heck, at this point, I don't even want to another knife (but that will probably change).

In my opinion, I see W&SS growing and changing with the split that happened between skills and gear. It went into a bit of a depression on posting for a little time when people tried to figure out the new format, but we now have a true skills thread where people can share their doing rather than just talk about doing stuff. Obviously camping and hiking are going to be highlighted more often here than survival, because few people (aside from PSK challenge freaks and Rick M ) intentionally go out under-equipped.

As a community we have to be open to the fact that people have come to this place with different sets of experiences, skill levels and from different places. Some really have only occasional access to the woods and others have 1000's acres beginning at their back door. This is a place that they can learn and the old salty dogs who seen it all before can perhaps sip of the enthusiasm portrayed from those who walk a new path their first time.

 

[j williams]

Well said Ken.....

We touched on this conversation last weekend at the Hardwoods meet. Im in the same boat as Ken. Its so much more about the hand holding the knife then the knife itself. ALOT of really skilled woodsmen start get here for the gear, and go the skills route eventually. That is whats happened to me as well. There has been a definate shift of focus for me, and with that shift in focus, you can go several differant directions. Primitave, Trad, survivalistic, UL backpacking, etc...and on and on. I hate labels though and I tend to mesh and blur the lines between them.

Sometimes we need to stop and realize that what is boring and done to death to us, is for some new and exciting. Instead of blasting them with rude comments and placing them into a box with a convienient label, we need to be encouraging and educational at the same time if that makes sense......Without a strong base of basic skills, its hard to go on to the advanced stuff. With that said, 90% of the people here will be into the more basic stuff.

As far as having to be someplace without cell signal to be skilled, thats BS. Total BS. Thats the attitude that pushes people away. The more skilled senior members of this site need to be more open to the basics and educating new guys, and less about their ego and that this place is somehow beneath them.

 

[hiwa]

There's a lot of folks new to outdoor and survival skills , but at least they are here learning about it and the tools and gear that help make it possible. I'm just as " guilty " as anyone here of posting a picture of my new-found gear or my knife sticking in a log. It doesn't prove a darn thing about my skills and abilities , nor does it about anyone else who does it.

I'm on this forum and others quite a bit and to be honest , do a lot more reading and learning than posting a ton of pictures. I'm pretty lazy with the camera , forget it half the time , and don't bother to post about every outing I make. I don't need to post pics/videos of myself to prove anything about my abilities. Where my skills and abilities really matter is " out there ."

I have to agree that the "survival overload" thing is overdone. Years ago it was just people going hiking and camping in the woods to have a good time. Nothing wrong with being prepared for having to survive out there if something goes sideways. For the most part , I think most people are under-prepared in the general population. I may be wrong , I don't know. Just a perception from what I've seen and read about.

The people that are posting here that are just getting into it are enthusiastic about there new knife or whatever gear and just enjoy posting about it. They're not here to prove they're survival experts . Just the fact that their learning and reading about it makes them that much more informed than someone who is not. That's the way I see it anyhow.

 

[tknife]

People posting pics of new gear/knives and pics of their adventures outside are pretty much the whole reason I come here. I don't care if you post a new knife sitting on a log, or hike where there are other people, or where your cell phone gets service, at least you're outside. And I don't care if you're name is Rambo McSurvival Master and you know more than all the TV survival hosts combined. No matter anyones skill level, snobbery is snobbery. This is Wilderness AND Survival Skills. Not everything has to be about do or die SHTF situations.

 

[KEmSAT-Survival]

Or is this too much to ask?

IMHO? Respectfully, yes, it is. A person should not have to feel it incumbent upon himself to drag photography equipment with him everytime he goes into a wild place just to attempt prove something to someone for their satisfaction. If he offers, that's a different story.

Reality flushes the chumps, Mick. Even a couch commando can take "glamour shots."

But, then again, I'm one of those no-proof-picture-showing people you were talking about, too.

 

[OwenM]

gear whoredom takes precedence over skills in most places but that doesn't mean everybody is some kind of poser and what might be total fascination with gear at one time can be replaced with fascination with skills at another.

Likewise, there's no reason people's total fascination for those skills now can't be replaced later by other ways of enjoying their outdoor experiences that they may find more practical applications of their time, more physically challenging and rewarding, or more stimulating to the senses.
I guess people like to tell themselves that whatever they have or do is the "best" thing, if for no other reason than that that's their thing, but they might discover just as much enjoyment from speeding up, or slowing down, by going farther, or staying in one place, depending on where life takes them.
Don't worry too much about what other people think,

 

[mtwarden]

No matter anyones skill level, snobbery is snobbery.

very much agreed, w/ Mick's attitude- no one would be posting here

 

[Toxie]

I guess us city dwellers that can only hit state Parks & rec areas for hiking on a weekend should not feel welcome here then? With $4 a gallon gas it's not terribly practical to drive two and a half hours (minimum) to find areas with even spotty cell coverage (let alone public land that's going to be relatively virgin). I bet that there are even some smaller eastern seaboard states that don't have areas without cell service .

What it comes down to is that life is different for different folks, and the important thing is that they get outside and enjoy themselves. If they go out to a local park and enjoy making figure four traps out if small sticks, camp and hike and enjoy it, thats no less valid then your odessy throuh the badlands with minimalist gear. Like the other poster said, less snobbery and more people happy enjoying the outdoors is a win. At least they're outside, and not on an Xbox.

 

[jaymeister99]

I don't think there can be any overload on survival. It can't hurt to know more. Are there some armchair survivalists here? Yes. Are there some serious go out in the woods for a few days with nothing but a knife folks here? Yes.

Humby, I'm somewhere inbetween those (but IMO a little bit further towards the later). I don't think there can be any overload on survival. It can't hurt to know more. If you enjoy collecting gear, great. If you want to be a survival guru, go for it!

 

[jaymeister99]

G'day mdsmith
IMO, this is a very perceptive opinion. thumbup:

As a matter of fact, it was the very reason why I stopped posting here.

It seemed to me that this forum was being dominated by people who couldn't show they had even spent any time outdoors. :thumbdn:

IMO, this forum used to be pretty typical of all internet forums that pretended to be focussed on "survival". :thumbdn::thumbdn:

Whilst there are plenty that will "talk the talk", there are few who will actually show that "they walk the walk".

IMO, if anyone has a digital camera that will show their "shiny new kinfe stuck in a piece of wood", they should be able to show it in use, right?

Or is this too much to ask?

Let me just say that after nearly 8 years of reading internet forums, I've come to the conclusion that "seeing really is believing".

But I'll say, what the F___ has happened recently to this forum?

It used to be the case here, where just one area of bushcraft was effectively ignored (ie edible plant material) by those whose only focussed was on gear and could't show any evidence that they actually spent any time in areas that didn't have mobile phone / cell phone reception. :jerkit:

The last couple of pages here, all of a sudden seem to show a realisation by more than just a few, that edible plant material might just be an important resource in an often talked about hypothetical "survival situation".

I've got to ask......what the F___ is going on here?

Kind regards
Mick

I would have gotten banned or at least a warning for a post like this!

 

[Gadgetaholic]

It seemed to me that this forum was being dominated by people who couldn't show they had even spent any time outdoors. :thumbdn:

IMO, this forum used to be pretty typical of all internet forums that pretended to be focussed on "survival". :thumbdn::thumbdn:

Whilst there are plenty that will "talk the talk", there are few who will actually show that "they walk the walk".

IMO, if anyone has a digital camera that will show their "shiny new kinfe stuck in a piece of wood", they should be able to show it in use, right?

Or is this too much to ask?

I think that the answer is very much YES - it is WAY too much to ask that other posters in this forum prove to you that they have been in the woods. I'm not even sure why you would think that people here owe you anything.

People are posting here to express opinions & share knowledge, no one should feel they have a right to challenge someone to provide proof or GTFO. You have a right to post here, express your opinions & share your knowledge - but not any more right than any other poster here has.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Normally, I don't get involved in these discussions, because I think they're pointless, but, maybe because of this evening's liquid refreshments..............
---------------------

Respectfully, I have to ask the OP, who are you to say that people are worrying too much about survival, at the expense of "just enjoying the outdoors"? Why is learning/practising survival skills and outdoor enjoyment, mutually exclusive? And who says it's 'worrying' about survival? I don't do what I do because of teotwaki, shtf or zombie attacks, I do it because I love it.

I've "just enjoyed the outdoors" for many years, 55+, in fact - hiking, fishing, hunting (not so much), backpacking, canoe tripping. During those years I developed an interest in learning more about the outdoors around me - a natural progression, at least in my mind.

At first, I just enjoyed the blues, browns, and the greens of the water, rocks and myriad of trees and plants, I encountered. Although I couldn't differentiate between a Evening Primrose and a Flowering Dogwood, I just enjoyed the ambiance.

As time went on, because of natural human curiosity, I started to learn a few things -"Hey, that's a Basswood tree and native peoples used to make strong and effective rope and string from that tree - that could be handy."

"Look, there's Stinging Nettle here, and Poison Ivy over there. Best we watch where we step."

I also learned that life kinda sucks when it's been raining for two days and you can't get a fire going to cook some food, especially with your little son and daughter along. So, learning and practising outdoor living skills became more important.

Eventually, my interest in wilderness survival/primitive skills surpassed "just being out there". Being out there, now, affords me a classroom to further my knowledge. Just because I'm modifying a nail trap trigger to make it more efficient and versatile, doesn't mean I'm not also enjoying my surroundings.

Does gathering Viburnum shoots to make my own arrows, somehow lessen my outdoor 'experience'?

Does gathering Red Osier Dogwood or Purple Willow to make baskets rob me of what could otherwise be a rewarding day afield? I think not.

I contend that learning and practising these skills increase your enjoyment of 'being out there', rather than detracting from it. Learning about the plants and trees and other things, you're likely to encounter in a days outing, increases your comfort level because of the greater degree of familiarity.

I now know the difference between an Evening Primrose and a Flowering Dogwood, because of my survival/primitive skills interests, and it comforts me. It makes me feel less of an alien in the natural world. It's like the difference between walking into a strange bar, for the first time, compared to walking into one "where everyone knows your name".

OK, a little bit of a hokey comparison, but i think you get the drift.

One other thing, do I have to remind you that this sub-forum is called Wilderness & Survival Skills?

Oh, and for Mick - glad to see you back brother. I was thinking about trying to contact you and ask you about your 'walkabout'

One thing to remember, some of us 'long-in-the-tooth' forum members did the bulk of our outdoor excursions before there were computers, let alone digital cameras. Coincidentally, I recently took a bunch of old negatives into the store to be put on a disc. So, for your edification, a couple of samples:

My wife and I, one fall on Cinder Lake in the Muskoka area.

I included this picture because I really like it. However the negative to disc exercise doesn't do it justice.

An unnamed little riffle on White River, Northern Ontario

A picture of my buddy, Pete on the White River.

How's this for a bit of engineering - hanging food bags away from the bear, above a ATV trail?

And finally, one of the few pictures of me, since I normally took the pictures. Also on the White River in Northern Ontario (leading into Lake Superior).

The picture of my wife and I was taken in the late '80s and the others, early '80s.

Anyway, my throat is dry and I've neglected my 'liquid research', so I take my leave.

Doc

 

[kgd]

Good stuff Doc and I agree with your thoughts.

While we are on the topic of older pictures proving our manhoods, while doc was doing all that good stuff, my parents put me on the diet of champions.