Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

The straw that finally broke my back in terms of tolerance for Survive was that (on top of the 6-year-and-counting wait), they announced the industry-beating delta heat treat they'd developed with CPK and Keffeler with great fanfare, and then seem to have quietly dropped it since, without telling anyone. Without the special heat treat, their knives are just another 3V blade with contoured micarta handles, which may have been a relatively rare commodity 6 years ago, but now is just blah.
 
Interesting. Have they said why they dropped the delta heat treat? My guess would be money but who knows. It’s kinda chicken shit they have the delta on their pictures.
 
GutWrench said:
Interesting. Have they said why they dropped the delta heat treat? My guess would be money but who knows. It’s kinda chicken shit they have the delta on their pictures.
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They still have the delta logo prominently on their Instagram page!
I haven't seen any announcement, but the GSO-12s don't appear to be stamped with the delta logo. I presume it's a cost-saving measure, as I don't believe the delta regimen lends itself to heat treating large batches. It COULD just be that they're not doing it for the GSO-12s because of the size of the blades, and will keep it for other models, but my assumption is that it's a sneaky way of saving costs across their entire production.
 
T
Brummie said:
They still have the delta logo prominently on their Instagram page!
I haven't seen any announcement, but the GSO-12s don't appear to be stamped with the delta logo. I presume it's a cost-saving measure, as I don't believe the delta regimen lends itself to heat treating large batches. It COULD just be that they're not doing it for the GSO-12s because of the size of the blades, and will keep it for other models, but my assumption is that it's a sneaky way of saving costs across their entire production.
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The GSO-6 that I got from them a month or so ago was still marked with the "delta" 3v. Don't know that I really care. It doesn't seem to be any better than the regular 3v that I have. Not in any way that I've been able to discern.
 
dogboye said:
T

The GSO-6 that I got from them a month or so ago was still marked with the "delta" 3v. Don't know that I really care. It doesn't seem to be any better than the regular 3v that I have. Not in any way that I've been able to discern.
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Yes. All the GSO6s I’ve seen were still delta marked.
 
Brummie said:
They still have the delta logo prominently on their Instagram page!
I haven't seen any announcement, but the GSO-12s don't appear to be stamped with the delta logo. I presume it's a cost-saving measure, as I don't believe the delta regimen lends itself to heat treating large batches. It COULD just be that they're not doing it for the GSO-12s because of the size of the blades, and will keep it for other models, but my assumption is that it's a sneaky way of saving costs across their entire production.
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Nate answered your question many months ago - https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/delta-3v-recipe-exclusive-or-shared.1767873/#post-20242065 post #12
 
CataD said:
Nate answered your question many months ago - https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/delta-3v-recipe-exclusive-or-shared.1767873/#post-20242065 post #12
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That was the basis for my saying that the delta protocol doesn't lend itself to large batches. Also, in that thread, someone confirms that Guy told them that they didn't consider the delta protocol worth the effort for the GSO12s. Aside from that, I haven't seen any direct information from Survive on the change in heat treat.
 
dogboye said:
T

The GSO-6 that I got from them a month or so ago was still marked with the "delta" 3v. Don't know that I really care. It doesn't seem to be any better than the regular 3v that I have. Not in any way that I've been able to discern.
Click to expand...

Brummie said:
Yes. All the GSO6s I’ve seen were still delta marked.
Click to expand...
Those blades were probably stamped years ago.
 
Did anybody else get the “Comeback Tour” newsletter?! I couldn’t believe it. Here’s the content:


Taking the leap to being our own manufacturer is paying off in a big way! Our quality is better than it has ever been, the shop is running smoothly, deliveries are way up, and we're getting on top of our backlog even more quickly than anticipated. Everything is going great now, but as you all know, getting here wasn't without its challenges. We put a lot of time, energy and capital into the company who was originally supposed to take over our production, only to have that investment not pan out. By getting our own new equipment, hiring some amazing people, and developing & optimizing all of our own production processes, we've taken the necessary steps to correct the situation quickly. We're delivering on our word where they couldn't and we're finally primed for growth as a new manufacturing company. For this next step we could really use your help.

Our original plan was to raise prices, to offset the phenomenal amount of new overheard we took on with a factory's worth of equipment, hiring all the employees needed to keep things moving, and to buy all the materials needed for a massive ramp up in production. The idea of raising prices just doesn't sit well with us though, so we're going to try something different.

If all the struggles getting to where we are now have taught us anything, it is how to do a lot with very little. As our own manufacturing company, we run a lean, efficient operation and we're prepared to do the work needed to take this to the next level. Rather than burdening you with higher prices, we're simply asking you to get involved by ordering one or maybe a few of the many great knives currently in production. With all of our manufacturing processes now refined, the additional materials and consumables are all we need to meet our growth goals and ensure we don't have to raise prices.

That's all you need to do to help, so now just sit back, relax and wait for your new knives to arrive. With our current manufacturing capacity and optimized processes, we can guarantee that even the latest models on the production schedule will arrive before Christmas, with most models arriving much sooner. I know we've said it before but it really is amazing finally being our own manufacturer.

This being a rapid growth initiative, the more you're willing to spend with us, the more you'll save. All of the discounts listed are for single orders, shipping to a single address. Large orders will ship out each time we have a full shipping box ready to go. Here's what we're offering:
  • Up to $999 = You're getting a great deal on the highest quality knives we've ever produced and ensuring we don't need to raise prices. As an extra thank you we'll include some model specific swag with your order.
  • $1,000 to $2,499 = You're adding a few knives to your carry rotation or collection at once, so we're offering you an additional 5% off
  • $2,500 to $4,999 = You're a super collector or the person tasked with heading up a group purchase, so reward yourself with 10% off your entire purchase.
  • $5,000 to $9,999 = You're a real knife player or you're probably considering reselling some of these on the side, so take15% off your order and think about all the money you're going to make on the secondary market.
  • $10,000 plus = You're most likely a small dealer who knows our quality and you've been waiting for a dealer program announcement, so go ahead and take 20% off your order.
If you're a large dealer wanting to get more involved than the options listed above, give us a call.
 
Simply amazing.

Blame all your past mistakes on others and make all the same claims/promises you've apologized for making in the past when you failed miserably. Then, ask for a butt ton more money from your "customers". You are a gosh dang manufacturing company now after all!

What a joke.
 
equivet said:
Did anybody else get the “Comeback Tour” newsletter?! I couldn’t believe it. Here’s the content:


​
Taking the leap to being our own manufacturer is paying off in a big way! Our quality is better than it has ever been, the shop is running smoothly, deliveries are way up, and we're getting on top of our backlog even more quickly than anticipated. Everything is going great now, but as you all know, getting here wasn't without its challenges. We put a lot of time, energy and capital into the company who was originally supposed to take over our production, only to have that investment not pan out. By getting our own new equipment, hiring some amazing people, and developing & optimizing all of our own production processes, we've taken the necessary steps to correct the situation quickly. We're delivering on our word where they couldn't and we're finally primed for growth as a new manufacturing company. For this next step we could really use your help.

​
Our original plan was to raise prices, to offset the phenomenal amount of new overheard we took on with a factory's worth of equipment, hiring all the employees needed to keep things moving, and to buy all the materials needed for a massive ramp up in production. The idea of raising prices just doesn't sit well with us though, so we're going to try something different.

If all the struggles getting to where we are now have taught us anything, it is how to do a lot with very little. As our own manufacturing company, we run a lean, efficient operation and we're prepared to do the work needed to take this to the next level. Rather than burdening you with higher prices, we're simply asking you to get involved by ordering one or maybe a few of the many great knives currently in production. With all of our manufacturing processes now refined, the additional materials and consumables are all we need to meet our growth goals and ensure we don't have to raise prices.

That's all you need to do to help, so now just sit back, relax and wait for your new knives to arrive. With our current manufacturing capacity and optimized processes, we can guarantee that even the latest models on the production schedule will arrive before Christmas, with most models arriving much sooner. I know we've said it before but it really is amazing finally being our own manufacturer.

This being a rapid growth initiative, the more you're willing to spend with us, the more you'll save. All of the discounts listed are for single orders, shipping to a single address. Large orders will ship out each time we have a full shipping box ready to go. Here's what we're offering:
  • Up to $999 = You're getting a great deal on the highest quality knives we've ever produced and ensuring we don't need to raise prices. As an extra thank you we'll include some model specific swag with your order.
  • $1,000 to $2,499 = You're adding a few knives to your carry rotation or collection at once, so we're offering you an additional 5% off
  • $2,500 to $4,999 = You're a super collector or the person tasked with heading up a group purchase, so reward yourself with 10% off your entire purchase.
  • $5,000 to $9,999 = You're a real knife player or you're probably considering reselling some of these on the side, so take15% off your order and think about all the money you're going to make on the secondary market.
  • $10,000 plus = You're most likely a small dealer who knows our quality and you've been waiting for a dealer program announcement, so go ahead and take 20% off your order.
If you're a large dealer wanting to get more involved than the options listed above, give us a call.
Click to expand...
Are you f-in’ kidding me?!
So….. order one of the knives currently in production… because they just need the new consumables… to… uh…. finish the knives already ordered… paid for in full…. Yeah…. I’ll go right out and order me a thousand bucks worth of Survive knives. Right after I buy that island in the Caribbean I’ve always wanted that just went on deep discount.
 
There is a 5-1/2 minute long Youtube video, "Moving Away From The Delta Heat Treat 6/12/21", where Guy describes why he's choosing to move away from the Delta 3V heat treat protocol.

In my opinion, there are a couple non sequiturs, and several choices that are carefully, and indirectly worded, excuses. And a few passive aggressive digs at other makers, and at CPM 3V. I've watched it 5+ times, digested his message and choices. It's a head-scratcher, at best, for me... decide for yourself.

When you are willing to walk away from an optimized heat treat formula that was derived to optimize edge/impact stability balanced with toughness vs. hardness, and given the pursuit of excellence that Guy touts, then I wonder if there isn't more to the story. Unclear from the video, which is all about heat treating and manufacturing choices, if they will continue to use Peters. Guy could clear that up easily.

Non sequiturs from video:
* premature dulling/blunting on the GSO-12 while cutting a dead tree, while using the Delta 3V protocol (which was designed to optimize edge stability)... then talking about wanting to optimize slicing performance with thinner grinds behind the edge.
* sending nearly finish ground blades ("net" on size) to Peters and having problems with edge alignment from rapid quench, vs. full thickness heat treats on unground blanks that are headed for the Survive! grinding machine.
 
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