Tactical Hawk Comparison Old vs New

[Dusty One]

Thanks. I only wish I could do more. I'll do it till my body let's me.

Edwood it looks and sounds like you are doing plenty. Thanks and take care !
As for the old VS new tactical hawks. I think the newer ones are lighter and much more duarble.

 

[DWinkler]

Men like Edwood are the reason I set up Winkler Knives II. A lot of you will recognize the early American/American Indian styling of what Karen and are known for. That side of our business is good and we are dealing with at least a 3 year backlog for the forged custom pieces these days.

A lot of folks ask how did you get in the Tactical Knife and Hawk business. It was because professionals like Edwood recognized the function of edged weapons from a time when close quarter combat was not uncommon. It seems we have come full circle now and the same is true again. However with modern technology one can take styling aspects from a variety of weapons and combine them to produce equipment that is superior to what was available at the time. Sure making a full tang hawk with a tapered and skeletonized tang would have been possible 300 years ago but it would have taken so much time only the very rich could have acquired one. So they made the next best thing and made hawks with an eye and used the strongest wood available for the handle. These are still effective weapons but limited in strength.

My Tactical Hawks today are heavier than a traditional styled hawk of a similar size but the trade off for carrying a 1.5 lb Hawk is worth the extra weight. Now they are virtually unbreakable and the weight reduction and tapering puts the weight in the head just like the old style versions, where it is supposed to be.

Expensive, yes, but it takes a lot of effort and time to get it right. They are all still custom Hawks and even with water jet cutting and running them several at a time they still take a lot of time to make. Currently most of my customers for my WK II products are Professionals, Military and Law Enforcement. They get a discount as my way of saying thank you for your service. The reason I offer these products to the public is it helps spread out the development and tooling costs. Keeping the cost for the ones whose lives may depend on the quality and design of the equipment as low as possible.

Edwood is a true top tier professional. He has been very generous and shown a small fraction of what the good folks that protect our lives go through on a daily basis. I appreciate his support and sharing his experiences. I will do my best to never let him or others in these dangerous jobs down.

Daniel

 

[Cpl Punishment]

im always amazed at how much money people are able to dedicate to knives. i wish i could be one of them.... =(

It's simple, you sacrifice in other areas of life.
It amazes me when people (in general, not talking about you) tell me my guns and blades are too expensive, yet they have the money for the 56" flat screen "home entertainment system", a Cadillac Escalade and a $1200/mo mortgage.

I have a 19" TV with combo DVD/VCR that I got at the scratch and dent furniture place, drive a Chevy and have a $550/mo mortgage. I also have nice guns and knives. Also, after getting burnt to the ground last time, I saved my cash to buy the knives and guns I really wanted and had a use for, and stopped impulse-buying anything that looked nice.




As for modern hawks, another choice is the VecHawk:

Yes, they are standard Trail Hawk heads, but on a very strong composite haft, with a steel strike plate down the front. They are light and fast, so you can have a long hawk without a lot of weight. Some will no doubt say they are hard to carry, but I saw a pic of a holster a man made for his (if I could remember where I saw it, I'd post a link). He had it ride behind his back at an angle head down, so he could undo the retention strap (held on with a Sam Browne style stud) and the hawk just slid down into his hand. Seems it would work fine strapped to a plate carrier. The advantage o fthe long hawk being reach. If you are up against someone with a H2H weapon, especially a longer one like a machete, the long hawk is nice to have. They can also be choked up on for extreme close fighting. That said, good luck CCWing one.

The Winkler hawks look great for CQB, though someone skilled with a long blade could make real trouble for you.

The RMJ hawks are popular with troops because they make good breaching axes and good H2H weapons. They have enough equioment weight on that they won't want to carry a prybar and a H2H weapon, so if they can get both, why not? There is something to be said for being able to puncture a tire, rip the locking mechanism out of the car door and make the occupant piss himself all with one tool.

 

[st33ve0]

Here's my recommendation, you need a long spike for added penetration and a sharpened beard to be able to guide and rip more effectively. Choking up on the handle about half way gives you a good balance of control and moment arm. While the longer handle can give you the extra moment arm to deliver some serious punch when you need it.

 

[nutnfancyfan]

It's simple, you sacrifice in other areas of life.
It amazes me when people (in general, not talking about you) tell me my guns and blades are too expensive, yet they have the money for the 56" flat screen "home entertainment system", a Cadillac Escalade and a $1200/mo mortgage.

I have a 19" TV with combo DVD/VCR that I got at the scratch and dent furniture place, drive a Chevy and have a $550/mo mortgage. I also have nice guns and knives. Also, after getting burnt to the ground last time, I saved my cash to buy the knives and guns I really wanted and had a use for, and stopped impulse-buying anything that looked nice.

well maybe i should of clarified something, im currently a student, and piss ass broke, so i have no $ at all lol. no video games, no flat screen, most of my cash went into a computer for school

 

[foxx]

Here's my recommendation, you need a long spike for added penetration and a sharpened beard to be able to guide and rip more effectively. Choking up on the handle about half way gives you a good balance of control and moment arm. While the longer handle can give you the extra moment arm to deliver some serious punch when you need it.

Is this from RMJ? What model?

 

[st33ve0]

Is this from RMJ? What model?

This is the RMJ Tactical Talon X

 

[Cpl Punishment]

well maybe i should of clarified something, im currently a student, and piss ass broke, so i have no $ at all lol. no video games, no flat screen, most of my cash went into a computer for school

Then you have to sell your body.

 

[Edwood7]

Then you have to sell your body.

Or risk it going in to a shit storm whit something cheap.

 

[Battlemacar10]

I have had no this than 40 handguns over the years and carried at least 10 different ones. This Sayoc Hawk in my favorite carry peice hand down I cannot recommend one enough there the best of the best.

 

[Bare Rib]

I still wish someone would come out with a modern day war hammer. I think it could have tremendous "tactical" applications as both a breaching tool and a defensive weapon.

 

[raybateson]

I still wish someone would come out with a modern day war hammer. I think it could have tremendous "tactical" applications as both a breaching tool and a defensive weapon.

Hammers? Sounds like a tough sell. Lacking the cultural-historical precedent and romanticism of tomahawks, among other reasons. And it's easy to imagine the leery public view toward any man's frame-of-mind who chooses a hammer rather than the 'honest' tomahawk or combat knife to dispatch the enemy.

I would love to carry a tactical hammer.

 

[foxx]

How do you envision the tacti-hammer? Solid full tang, dual hammers, or a spike? Depending on one's strength, the weight, and length, there could be some options.
Would it be sized like a modern hawk, but with a heavier hammer?

 

[Edwood7]

I think American Kami makes one. His hawks are crappy ( I hate chisel grinds and the handel material is terrible on the hands when doing hard cutting) but does hammers are kind of cool.

 

[crossada]

I know someone once posted in the sword forum about purchasing a war hammer for $3000+ from one of the more colorful sword makers so i know they are out there.

I think they would be a tough sell though considering it would be hard to improve on the basic hardware store hammer. BUT i could be wrong

Here is a rig Charlie Mike from here on the forums had made which is pretty neat.
[youtube]CHObVpqeAzY[/youtube]

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Hammers? Sounds like a tough sell. Lacking the cultural-historical precedent and romanticism of tomahawks, among other reasons. And it's easy to imagine the leery public view toward any man's frame-of-mind who chooses a hammer rather than the 'honest' tomahawk or combat knife to dispatch the enemy.

I would love to carry a tactical hammer.

Unless your one of us that likes his European heritage, and doesn't try to adapt others, in which case it has good cultural precedent, especially as a weapon for the masses, and pretty much the king of weapons for combat with armored opponents.

How do you envision the tacti-hammer? Solid full tang, dual hammers, or a spike? Depending on one's strength, the weight, and length, there could be some options.
Would it be sized like a modern hawk, but with a heavier hammer?

Hammer on one side, sharp spike on the other. The sharp spike goes through armor pretty well (just think Edwood's story about the little spike on the front of his hawk going through a bad guy's kevlar, then imagine a 4-5" spike doing it). The hammer is for when even the spike won't go through, you can really hurt them.

In fact, on softer armor, if the spike doesn't go through and you're striking over bone, you'll likely crack or break the bone -- same with the hammer face. Nasty, nasty weapon.

 

[raybateson]

Unless your one of us that likes his European heritage, and doesn't try to adapt others, in which case it has good cultural precedent, especially as a weapon for the masses, and pretty much the king of weapons for combat with armored opponents.

...and proud of it.

But I was speaking from the simpler american perspective, in which history begins with the mayflower's landing, where surface-image is everything, and pride is defined by identifying with a set of ideological values than anything having to do with our common ancestral heritage.

Nasty, nasty weapon.

I've thought deeply about this, and I've decided that bludgeons generally are superior weapons, but hammers would be even superior-er. That said, as I type this there's a loaded shotgun lying on my lap.

 

[Battlemacar10]

American Kami has some neat hammers, they are bearded so you could still depoly them somewhat like a hawk. Hooks, holds and etc....

Hes a great guy and is back ordered forever, chisel grinds dont bug me in fact I find them nice for feild expediant sharpening.

I still carry my PBC1 tomahawk(chisel grind) from time to time when I have to play dress up for work or family and the Sayoc is a tad too long.

That said Winkler has a new short hawk called the Shealth Hawk. I'm sure it will be a race between me and Ed to get one first and Ed will win LOL.

I have often looked at the TOPS MAX Mini Axe for a carry axe but never pulled the trigger. Only reason i didnt is because for the last 20 years I have trained with a Lagana type old or modern and the TOPS does not allow those tactics to be used. A Kami hammer still would, the Sayoc, even my silly TrenchHawk and M48 Unitied. The PBC does not its a PURE knife/hawk hybred in the truest sense.

 

[DWinkler]

New "Stealth"

4 7/8"" from edge to spike and 8" overall. I don't have one on hand to weigh but it is the lightest yet.

Daniel

 

[Kentucky]

If anyone remembers on the modern marvel episode "Axes" they used on of Ryans hawks to puncture a kevlar helmit with no problem..Really thought think about it..Most any decent steel these hawks are made from will cut thinner mild steel without much trouble at all..
Ballistic vest's and "stab-proof" vests are different critters..Id like to try a spike hawk on one of our gov't issue stab resistant vests..