Tactical Hawk Comparison Old vs New

[Bare Rib]

I'll do up a drawing/sketch of what I'm thinking about for my modern day warhammer.

 

[Gamecock84]

Hi Daniel,

When will the stealth tomahawk be out? Do you know the pricepoint yet?

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[manghu67]

And how many of my axes have you owned, bud? Your location is listed as "all over Mexico." I've never shipped a blade to Mexico. Ever.

I think American Kami makes one. His hawks are crappy ( I hate chisel grinds and the handel material is terrible on the hands when doing hard cutting) but does hammers are kind of cool.

 

[Gamecock84]

Before you guys get to fighting, let me say manghu67 your Neotribal Spike Hawk looks extremely badass! Nice shortened length compared to the others, which is crucial in CQC. Good pricepoint too!

Ryan

 

[Edwood7]

And how many of my axes have you owned, bud? Your location is listed as "all over Mexico." I've never shipped a blade to Mexico. Ever.

Yes, but you do sale your stuff to Americans, we do cross training whit Americans, we play whit there toys, they play whit ours. Noting personal, I know you get mad hearing other people’s opinions on your work; I just did not like the one I handled. Most of my stuff gets ship to an American PO box, so don’t be surprised if you ever see some of your work out here.

Thanks for your responses, good and bad.

Sorry if my language caused offense, but I have a tendency to write how I talk, and I am a believer in the Carlinism that "There are no bad words, only bad intentions." "Bad words" are a part of our language, and I feel that they're a useful tool. I'm a regular guy. I won't forsake honesty for political correctness. So I drop an F-bomb from time to time.

I thought I was being more blunt than vehement. I'm a passionate guy. I love what I'm doing, and believe strongly in it. I work very hard at it, and I pay for it in blood. If what I do weren't a big deal to me, I'd be doing something else.

I'm all for taking the high road... But that mall ninja comment pissed me off. Maybe I shouldn't have let that get under my skin, but it did. That'll be cause for some personal reflection. I know this is the Internet (what's that simile about arguing on the Internet and the Special Olympics?) and I know that nothing is all things to all men, hence not all will be pleased. But what can I say? I'm not a perfect person. I read something on the Internet and it pissed me off. Maybe I should have filled out one of these forms instead?

 

[manghu67]

Actually, I sell my stuff to people around the globe.

Dude, I have no problem whatsoever with constructive criticism. That's how one becomes a better maker. Nor to I expect that everybody is going to appreciate the stuff that I make. Not everybody likes chisel ground blades, and I'm ok with that. What I do not appreciate is you saying my work is crappy because you handled one piece. When was that axe made? Which model? Who was the owner? Was it modified? Got any pics? Was it an appropriate tool for what you were using it for? My work has evolved a lot over the past six years. You're welcome to send me an email with that data if you're not comfortable posting it here.

This is not the first time you've made disparaging remarks about my work here. Let me ask you this - how does "his hawks are crappy" help me make better product? And what makes you think that a blanket statement like that is going to engender a positive response in me?

Yes, but you do sale your stuff to Americans, we do cross training whit Americans, we play whit there toys, they play whit ours. Noting personal, I know you get mad hearing other people’s opinions on your work; I just did not like the one I handled. Most of my stuff gets ship to an American PO box, so don’t be surprised if you ever see some of your work out here.

 

[Edwood7]

Actually, I sell my stuff to people around the globe.

Dude, I have no problem whatsoever with constructive criticism. That's how one becomes a better maker. Nor to I expect that everybody is going to appreciate the stuff that I make. Not everybody likes chisel ground blades, and I'm ok with that. What I do not appreciate is you saying my work is crappy because you handled one piece. When was that axe made? Which model? Who was the owner? Was it modified? Got any pics? Was it an appropriate tool for what you were using it for? My work has evolved a lot over the past six years. You're welcome to send me an email with that data if you're not comfortable posting it here.

This is not the first time you've made disparaging remarks about my work here. Let me ask you this - how does "his hawks are crappy" help me make better product? And what makes you think that a blanket statement like that is going to engender a positive response in me?

The texture on the G10 handles I use was just terrible on the hands when trying to do breeching activities whit it, you have to many little sharp edges on the handle, maybe not its intended purpose but that was my impression whit it. You really aren’t very specific on what the intended purpose is of the axes on you sight, if so I haven’t see it.
The spike you put on the axe i tried was not what I would look for in a hawk, it’s just too short for what I might need it for, not going to penetrate that well or deep on a human body.
The blade finish is to reflective, not something you would want in a combat axe.
I’m not looking for a response; this is a public forum wear opinions are made, sorry if I was not specific on what I did not like about you axe.


edit

We wear prying open doors and window frames whit it (aluminum and wood), the blade and edge did hold up grate BTW.

 

[manghu67]

Ok, so what you're saying is that it preformed the tasks you required of it, and was well constructed and durable, but the handle texture was too aggressive (and too blocky), you would have preferred non-reflective finish, and you would have preferred a longer spike, yeah? That's what I'm getting from your post. That is actually helpful, and I appreciate that kind of feedback. And it's a far cry from "His hawks are crappy." Know what I'm saying?

I don't expect glowing feedback all the time - sometimes something isn't a good fit for someone. But if you're not happy about something, I am going to expect some details. That's how I improve my product.

It is likely that is was an earlier axe. Some guys were complaining a while back that my handles were too aggressive, so those peaks get knocked down now and the cross section is less rectilinear. Situation rectified. Can you tell me what color the handles were on the hawk you handled? And maybe the model, if you see it on my site? Do you recall whether or not it had my makers mark on it? I suspect it came with just a simple Kydex edge protector and not a full on sheath, correct?

I make axes that range anywhere between two focuses - general purpose, and balls out anti-personnel. A spontoon is obviously not designed for breaching or chopping wood. It's made to punch holes in people.

The texture on the G10 handles I use was just terrible on the hands when trying to do breeching activities whit it, you have to many little sharp edges on the handle, maybe not its intended purpose but that was my impression whit it. You really aren’t very specific on what the intended purpose is of the axes on you sight, if so I haven’t see it.
The spike you put on the axe i tried was not what I would look for in a hawk, it’s just too short for what I might need it for, not going to penetrate that well or deep on a human body.
The blade finish is to reflective, not something you would want in a comIbat axe.
I’m not looking for a response; this is a public forum wear opinions are made, sorry if I was not specific on what I did not like about you axe.


edit

We wear prying open doors and window frames whit it (aluminum and wood), the blade and edge did hold up grate BTW.

 

[Edwood7]

Sorry for being too vague, but it was just a general impression, I am just a regular guy and English is my second language, thinking about it now crappy may not be the appropriate word.
I think the axe had a black handle, kidex whit a bungee attachment on it for a sheath. Don’t remember if it had a makers mark, but the owner said it was made by American kami. He was under the impression that it was a hard use item. May be the term hard use means different things to different people, he used it to pry and break down doors. I think that as a weapon it could be very affective. I would love to see something made whit a full or tapered tang on it llike your NTSS

 

[manghu67]

I appreciate the honest feedback and the clarification, bud.

If it was just the edge protector with cord as you're saying, that would have been an earlier piece. Which would explain the hard corners.

I assure you, everything I make is built to be used. If people can't actually use it, I don't see the point in making it. If that axe was used for breaching, awesome. I make them as bombproof as I can.

I see you're partial to Winkler's stuff (which I also like very much), so I'm not surprised that you'd suggest a full, tapered tang. Maybe I'll make something like that in the future, but there are definitely reasons why I went with full G10 handles: First, they put the weight forward, same as the tapered tang does. This weight reduction and balance allow me a middle ground between a lighter fighting hawk, and a heavier piece that's too slow for fighting and built to do work. Second, G10 is electrically non-conductive. Which is something that's nice to have for breaching or rescue. Third, it's tough as hell. I haven't had one come back to me yet, nor have I broken one. G10 is awesome stuff.

Sorry for being too vague, but it was just a general impression, I am just a regular guy and English is my second language, thinking about it now crappy may not be the appropriate word.
I think the axe had a black handle, kidex whit a bungee attachment on it for a sheath. Don’t remember if it had a makers mark, but the owner said it was made by American kami. He was under the impression that it was a hard use item. May be the term hard use means different things to different people, he used it to pry and break down doors. I think that as a weapon it could be very affective. I would love to see something made whit a full or tapered tang on it llike your NTSS

 

[flintsghost]

Looking for opinions on how something more traditional like a CS Spike Tomahawk or Roger's Rangers Tomahawk would compare to something like the SOG or ATC Vietnam Hawk, Emerson, or RMJ Shrike in the tactical fighting tomahawk arena. What, if any, would be the disadvantages of the more traditional designs? I'm not really looking for opinions of quality or brands but of design and ability.

Depending on what you're going to do with it, the traditional design like ATC makes is excellent. It is fairly light in your gear, well balance, and throws (if that's your desire) extremely accurately. It was designed by LaGana especially for combat and fills the bill well. I also have the Emerson design by ATC but it's designed not to be thrown, is a bit heavier and a little more unwieldy (slower in action). I like the handles on ATC's because they are virtually unbreakable which is something that you can't saw for wood. On the other hand the drop forgings that ATC use have a lot of flaws and it's hard to get one that is dead smooth and thus perfectly balanced. While my wife and I were both taught to throw hawks and knives by a master knife maker...Dan Dennehy, during a visit many years ago....I'm not sure throwing a good weapon away is the smartest thing one can do. But for up close and personal fighting without firearms or with stealth, I'll take a hawk over a knife any day. My preference is for the original LaGana design as it's the most versatile.

 

[JayGoliath]

I'm learning about axes and picked up all these different jargons along :
Battle Hawk, War Hammer, Crash Axe, Tactical Hawk and some mumbo jumbos..

Are they all the same? Perhaps not.
Are they made for throwing, CQC, chopping woods, metal and breaching?

To each his own we have different markets, steels, designs and construction.

Now i would like to ask if riveted design really hold the axe head to the handle that well? or do we go with the full tang, well-tempered one piece?

I've looked at RMJ, Winkler's, Striders, American Kami's, Omnivore Bladeworks and even Gransfor...

Strider Prototype has this interesting pivot and a system that could switch position of axe from rear, middle and front.

I wonder if the pivot and multi-position system is strong enough to handle the breaching?

You may find the video inside this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=718522&highlight=strider+prototype

 

[Edwood7]

I really don’t think I would choose a riveted head over a full tang. I trust the full tang axe more when I’m doing heavy cutting on some hard materials, like aluminum, fiberglass or drywall etc.



Id would go to this giant can opener from Winkler Knives

The RMJ hawks are also a good choice.

 

[foxx]

Jeff Hall over at Nemesis Knives has a Hawk design that has a bolt on head. It can move 90 degrees.
I've wondered about the strength of that design, the blade is S7 and the handle is aluminum, I think.
I'd feel safer using a full tang or tapered tang.

 

[PaveHammer]

I've never seen that can opener, Edwood - I believe that's the first time I've ever seen it referenced anywhere, either. Would you happen to know of any videos of it's use? I've seen that Strider proto in use, and it's frighteningly effective.

I've always been a fan of Winkler's hawks, but have never had the opportunity to see one in person, or any knife/axe with a tapered tang for that matter. Their military discount significantly helps, but I would still like the opportunity to hold one before laying down the cash.

Thanks for posting - your posts are always informative.

Brad

 

[Edwood7]

Hear is some info on that extraction tool
“This axe was developed for a military rescue/extraction team to meet their need for a tool that can be used when power tools either fail or are unavailable.Its purpose is to remove survivors, casualties and sensitive equipment from crashed aircraft and ground vehicles. Designed for cutting metal, the blade will not hang in sheet metal. The tapered tang enhances power in a stroke and distributes the majority of the weight to the head making it possible to cut or break through cross beams. The axe features a point on the back of the head that serves a "glass breaker", as well as a hole punch for creating an entry point for the "can opener" on the end of the handle. The rubber handle provides a secure grip in wet or dry conditions, as well as excellent shock-absorption. Functioning as a portable "Jaws of Life" this extraction tool has proven its effectiveness to law enforcement, first responders and rescue workers, as well as to the team for which it was designed. Price includes a felt lined, Kydex Carrier with rubber belt hanger. Optional molle clip carry system is available. Cost: $675.00”




Daniel Winkler even got an award for this axe design.

2009 MOST INNOVATIVE DESIGN Blade Show, Atlanta, GA- This tool was orignally designed for a rescue extraction team and is now used by military, law enforcement and first responders throughout this Country and abroad.

 

[Edwood7]

I've never seen that can opener, Edwood - I believe that's the first time I've ever seen it referenced anywhere, either. Would you happen to know of any videos of it's use? I've seen that Strider proto in use, and it's frighteningly effective.

I've always been a fan of Winkler's hawks, but have never had the opportunity to see one in person, or any knife/axe with a tapered tang for that matter. Their military discount significantly helps, but I would still like the opportunity to hold one before laying down the cash.

Thanks for posting - your posts are always informative.

Brad

I got to handle his axes in person last October, at the Costa Mesa custom knife show; needless to say y bought one of his axes that day. Once you carry one for a few months you will learn that this things will be whit you all your life, its one of does things that your grate grand kids will probably look at when its hanging over the fireplace.

 

[Bare Rib]

Sorry it took me so long to get this up but its been a busy week for me.
Anyways here is an initial design/concept for my Tac Hammer.
-Overall length is 24"/61cm
-Full .25"/6.35mm thick tang
-The head has 4 pyramid shaped points coming off of it. This is something that medieval warhammers had as well the purpose being that they focus the impact into those points generating an greater force at those points.
-The back spike is sharped on the underside the curve will hep in cutting cord, rope, and webbing, & for pull cuts (pierce wall and tilt handle up and pull.)
-The hook at the bottom of the hammer end can be hooking and binding a combatant, dragging, & so forth. The undercut of the hook also will aid in putting more weight forward on the hammer's striking head.
-Handle material would wither be Micarta or G10. The scallops on the handle material would also be on the tang of the hammer providing two good secure gripping points.
-The bottom of the handle has a prybar end to further it's possible functionality in entry situations.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Nternal]

Sorry it took me so long to get this up but its been a busy week for me.
Anyways here is an initial design/concept for my Tac Hammer.
-Overall length is 24"/61cm
-Full .25"/6.35mm thick tang
-The head has 4 pyramid shaped points coming off of it. This is something that medieval warhammers had as well the purpose being that they focus the impact into those points generating an greater force at those points.
-The back spike is sharped on the underside the curve will hep in cutting cord, rope, and webbing, & for pull cuts (pierce wall and tilt handle up and pull.)
-The hook at the bottom of the hammer end can be hooking and binding a combatant, dragging, & so forth. The undercut of the hook also will aid in putting more weight forward on the hammer's striking head.
-Handle material would wither be Micarta or G10. The scallops on the handle material would also be on the tang of the hammer providing two good secure gripping points.
-The bottom of the handle has a prybar end to further it's possible functionality in entry situations.

Let me know what you guys think.

I like it.

 

[Edwood7]

That’s a great designee. Is that hole on the end of the handle a lanyard hole?

Is a there a reason for the gap in the middle of the handle?

I have found that having a lanyard on a breeching axe is a very essential thing; it gives you grater confidence when doing hard chopping, especially when your team is stacked behind you. No fear of it flying out of your hands.

Love the designee on that thing, especially the pyramids on the hammer.