"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

[Ankerson]

It was more about what manufactors are making/marketing. Not so much anymore.

I guess it did start somewhat Prac Tacish, but is 100% Prac Tac now.
Maybe it will be moved.

It was going to go down hill from the beginning as in Prac Tac......

 

[Ankerson]

I asked if preparation was fantasy if such is never needed. I made no assumptions about what constitutes preparation.



It went Prac Tac with the first post.

****************

I have homeowners insurance in case I need it. I have car insurance in case I need it. I have a liability umbrella policy in case I need it. I have a fire extinguisher in my truck in case I need it. I have a handgun on my hip in case I need it. I carry a knife in case I need it (granted it's a tool first and a backup weapon second). I carry blackjack in case I need it.

We all have a lot of things "just in case we need them." And the vast majority of us won't agree that all of those things constitute living in a fantasy. Why is it suddenly different with knives?

Paranoid?

Guess the bad guys are looking for you.... LOL

 

[Joe Watson]

As someone who has used a variety of tactical knives deployed to my fair share of tactical environments, I'm tired of the term.

I've more or less come to sum up "tactical" to be a marketing term, mostly a knife with plenty of fantasy crap you don't need.

 

[jbombelli]

Paranoid?

Guess the bad guys are looking for you.... LOL

Why is it that so many people view preparation as paranoiac fantasy?

About the only thing you've said that I 100% agree with has to do with situational awareness. The best defense is to see things coming before they get to you, so you can avoid them. The problem is... 1) nobody is perfect at this, so occasionally things happen that you didn't see coming, and 2) sometimes you just can't avoid things even if you DO see it coming.

 

[marcinek]

It was going to go down hill from the beginning as in Prac Tac......

 

[Cosmic Superchunk]

At the end of the day, who cares? People buy what they want to buy. If someone buys a so-called "tactical" knife and feels extra special and bad-ass in their own heads for doing so, then so be it. People buy things for all sorts of reasons. Most will likely never use their knives in a life or death military situation and that's okay.

Seriously, why make such an issue over a marketing term? Buy what you like and that's that.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

At the end of the day, who cares? People buy what they want to buy. If someone buys a so-called "tactical" knife and feels extra special and bad-ass in their own heads for doing so, then so be it. People buy things for all sorts of reasons. Most will likely never use their knives in a life or death military situation and that's okay.

Seriously, why make such an issue over a marketing term? Buy what you like and that's that.

Absolutely. Which is why I'm not moving this to Prac Tac. The thread is about the knives, how we define them in our own minds, with no real discussion of "how to".

Lets keep in mind also that we can discuss other members' opinions without discussing those other members themselves. Courtesy is just as easy as insults.

 

[RevDevil]

I prefer the term "tactilicious" myself. It expresses the stealthy enjoyment of carrying around an awesome folder.

 

[dandaub20]

There are more "tactical" knives nowadays because its more appealing to the younger kids. I myself being a young guy do enjoy the designs and just the fact that a knife looks cool. Dont get me wrong though I dont buy the mall ninja stuff even though I did at one point early in during my knife addiction

 

[theizzardking]

this thread is the perfect example of why tactical is nothing more than a marketing term, lots of people who have been around knives for years cannot even pin down exactly what makes a knife tactical and to be honest i find alot more crappy products hyped under the term than anything else across all industries, tac backpacks, tac gloves,tac glasses, tac pants,tac hats,tac socks,tac ect ect ect....

everything is tactical now a days and very little of it would be any good in a combat zone......i don't think you can apply the military definition of the word to marketing campaigns....natural linguistics, people taking words and using them for other things to convey a message can ultimately change the word itself over time... like the guy above me, with experience in tac gear, the whole term has lost any meaning to me in regards to gear....if you use this stuff enough and are in a tactical environment you tend to know what you need and use...so i would say the true term of a tactical knife is any knife that one uses while deployed in combat...i think it's user specific...you'd be surprised at some of the stuff people carry over there....

one last thing, a knife in regards to self defense isn't ideal but as with anything in a life and death struggle...it's better than nothing...ideally a knife is the last line of defense before your gouging eyes and clawing throats , a firearm should be the first and just like a knife it's only effective as the user.....so, just as you would practice with a knife for self defense you should with a firearm and your bare hands.... i don't live my life in fear either, i'm actually quite trusting and relaxed in life, i just believe my safety is my responsibility before it is anyone else's....

 

[Ankerson]

At the end of the day, who cares? People buy what they want to buy. If someone buys a so-called "tactical" knife and feels extra special and bad-ass in their own heads for doing so, then so be it. People buy things for all sorts of reasons. Most will likely never use their knives in a life or death military situation and that's okay.

Seriously, why make such an issue over a marketing term? Buy what you like and that's that.

Yeah pretty much for the large majority... :thumbup:

That won't keep me from laughing every time I see one of those types though, but yes I hope they keep buying into it because I need a good laugh every now and then..

 

[Ankerson]

Why is it that so many people view preparation as paranoiac fantasy?

About the only thing you've said that I 100% agree with has to do with situational awareness. The best defense is to see things coming before they get to you, so you can avoid them. The problem is... 1) nobody is perfect at this, so occasionally things happen that you didn't see coming, and 2) sometimes you just can't avoid things even if you DO see it coming.

Maybe the real question might be is why some people don't view it that way?

Moderation, everything in moderation....

 

[hardheart]

I asked if preparation was fantasy if such is never needed. I made no assumptions about what constitutes preparation.

The fantasy is in the marketing and typing of knives. What makes your knife tactical? Most assaults with blades involve kitchen knives. Bowie's sandbar knife was a butcher's knife in general pattern. The Kabar is based on an Ideal hunting knife. What is so tactical about the Douk douk that they were used for knife fighting in actual warfare in Algeria? What does it take to be prepared with a knife? Because it doesn't seem that it can be the person who prepares, it has to be the features checklist. That is the problem with the tactical knife, people think they need one when maybe all they need is a knife with a comfortable grip and a good blade profile. And a lot of people in this thread have said that the features aren't even tactical anyway, they're just useful in general, so the features don't mean actually mean anything specific in a tactical sense. The only relevant features are good materials and good build quality, sam as a tactical tractor trailer, bulldozer, pickaxe, pair of boots, or anything else several dozen different jobs in the military use in the field.

Actual preparation for an actual potentiality is not fantasy. Since you cannot or will not define preparation beyond owning a few things, then yeah, that would be a fantasy. Prepping against zombies or martians is fantasy. Picking a knife based on looks and never training with it is fantasy. Buying a knife because you can't carry a gun, while living in an area with a high crime rate, and leaving your house by yourself without much reason, is not preparing. Moving, adjusting your activities and time table, getting a dog, layering with pepper spray, impact tools, etc, actually doing something is preparing. Buying stuff is not the whole process of preparing. A knife is not prepared for anything. A person with a knife can be, but only if they define the process of preparation and what they are preparing against. CPL Toloza, who I mentioned before in passing, was prepared to use his satin finished blade with no thumbstud or hole, that lacked carbon fiber or G10, without assisted opening, had no guard or sub-hilt, and no pocket clip, to fight off an assault while a dozen of his comrades were on the ground. The soldier was tactical, the knife was just pointy and sharp enough.

 

[Goosey]

I'm kind of confused by this topic though... what kind of knives are we talking about being "tactical" here?

Something like a Spyderco Military or an Al Mar? Or something more on the Dark Ops side of things?

 

[killgar]

Tactical is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible.

Yes, there is a "proliferation of firearms", but not everyone has the legal right to carry one, or even own one. As far as "severe legal consequences", if you think that one person can shoot another in self-defense and face no legal repercussions whatsoever, then you know as little about the criminal justice system as you know about the defensive use of knives. And based on the infrequent occurrence of guns being used for self-defense, by your logic, wouldn't that make the defensive use of firearms less than "plausible"? And in regards to being "outdated", tasers are a lot more modern than firearms. Does that make firearms "outdated"?

I congratulate a handful of posters on this forum, who for whatever reason, are obsessed with the notion of "self defense" and are able to point to a handful of examples (which fall within that generous 10% estimation I offered in the OP) of people using a knife in a "self defense" situation.

Who's "obsessed with the notion of self-defense"? You're the one who brought up the topic, remember. And where exactly did you get your "10% estimation" from? Can you provide a link to any FBI statistics to back up that number? Or are you just pulling that number out of, well, let's say thin air?

I encourage you to consult a reliable practical text about civilian knife fighting if you doubt this assertion.

Who's talking about "knife fighting"? Perhaps your problem is that you can't tell the difference between "knife fighting" and self-defense.

I recommend Don Pentecost's "Put em' down, take em' out: Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom Prison," which is largely regarded as one of the most fundamental and important texts on knife fighting and basic techniques in non-military settings

Oh I see, you read a book. And do you believe that because you read a book about prison violence that you are now an expert on the defensive use of knives? And aside from your own admiration of Don Pentecost, who exactly determined his book to be "one the most fundamental and important texts on knife-fighting". Other than yourself of course.

for a brief primer for why knives are terrible self-defense weapons.

And yet people have saved their lives and prevented themselves from being raped using knives as weapons. If knives are so "terrible" for self-defense, how is it that so many people, with no training, are able to use them successfully to defend themselves? When opinions are contradicted by FACTS, I side with the FACTS.

It's interesting to note that most knife fighting techniques do not even utilize or value features on a "tactical" knife (jimping, for instance, has no use or function in ice pick or hammer grips).

So, you're such an expert on "knife fighting techniques" that you know what "features" a knife-fighting knife should have? How exactly did you aquire such expertise? Or was that a different book you read?

 

[Goosey]

It's interesting to note that most knife fighting techniques do not even utilize or value features on a "tactical" knife (jimping, for instance, has no use or function in ice pick or hammer grips).

That's one thing I've noticed... Nutnfancy and others always seem to need aggressive jimping on their knives, and I've seen people chop off guards on knives only to add... thumb jimping. That's fine for normal use, if they like it, but I don't think jimping would do help in a self-defence scenario. Personally I'd be holding my knife in an ice pick or hammer grip. Sabre "fighting" grips on a sub-4-inch blade don't make sense to me.

 

[MrPocketsOfSteel]

To me "tactical" = "practical" and represents a line of knives featuring new design features and materials. It is a step away from more traditional lines and has introduced progress in lock designs, blade design and steel alloys, as well as, knife frame design and handle materials. Much of it is not necessarily a step in the right direction; there has been a lot of useless features aimed at mall-ninjas and novice adolesence, but some of the experimentation has been a net gain and has resulted in better, stronger, lighter and more durable knives.

n2s

When I see the words "tactical" and "practical" my mind goes back to the day I first heard those words in a back to back format. My knife world was turned upside down by the Miltner Adams video and voice-over. And I have never been the same since.

 

[stabman]

Sport Utility Knife.
There, does everyone feel better now? Can we get a kumbaya going round?

 

[liamstrain]

That SUK's...(but still funny).

 

[craytab]

Sport Utility Knife.
There, does everyone feel better now? Can we get a kumbaya going round?

Ha! Seriously!

Who cares what you call it, buy what you like and stop whining about what the current trend is. Personally, I like one hand opening, G-10, thicker blades, and some jimping in the right spot. Personal choice. You don't like it, don't buy it. I don't like a lot of "traditional" style pocket knives (whatever that means) but I certainly would never jump to the ridiculous conclusion that they serve no purpose and then blame all their popularity on marketing.

To cry about how some "tactical" elements are wrongly changing the whole of the knife making industry (like the original poster has done several times here) just seems like, well, crying when you don't get your way. Get over it. You gotta have something better to do....right?