"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

I agree that most folks, including me, have no clue what a defensive or so-called tactical usage of a knife really entails. See brother Mercop's first hand accounts and decades of training in this regard. He pretty much poo poo's the knife as a defensive weapon, especially when the bad guy is smashing your head against the wall.

Even with that knowledge, I still would rather carry a knife that is theoretically capable of usage in a defensive scenario. And I carry a firearm all day, every day. Consider the Bladeforum member who defended his son against a cougar attack about a year or two ago, using a Caly 3.5. Or a dog attack is not an unrealistic possibility. If a dog clamps down on my forearm, do I want to start cracking off rounds with the other hand? Not really.

Additionally, there are those like Brother CM, who is barred by operation of law from carrying a firearm. Would his best defensive weapon be his hands, a hammer or a baton? Maybe. Probably. Thats another discussion.

A while back, someone posted a video of about 4 armed Mexican police trying to subdue a knife-wielding maniac. The police ran like little girls, and not all got away. It was a sick and frightening demonstration of what a true life and death struggle entails, which few of us - me included - can really wrap our brains around. Instead, we read and participate in threads where some 17 year old kid is asking about which is the best knife for "knife fights".

So if I'm understanding your thesis correctly, I largely agree with it. That is, knives are not good means of protecting ourselves or others, and we largely have no clue what it would be like to try to use a knife in the midst of a real threat of imminent serious bodily harm or death - which it the only scenario in which a defensive usage of a knife is justified.

Just imagine the colonial and westward expansion days when men would hunt black bear with knives. Sometimes intentionally!
 
TACTICAL OPERATOR OPERATING HARD USE EXTREME!

Tactical-Support-Unit-1.jpg


Yeah, "tactical" is a very silly fad.
 
I carry a slipjoints. They just cut the type of stuff I cut better.

I collect all types of knives from daggers around to balisongs and just about anything in between. I am glad we have the plethora of choices that we have.

Old and new by Darrel Ralph
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2012 Blade Show Best Folder by Ken Erickson.
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micartabone.jpg


A fantastic dagger by Vince Evans
Evans_Dagger-web1.jpg


EDC tray:
Tray.jpg


open-1.jpg


Walter25th.jpg


JohnMark.jpg


Sava1Mark.jpg


Williams_B07_01-ww.jpg


Sava2Mark.jpg


brend_30-ww.jpg


RayMark.jpg
 
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At the end of the day, what should be done? Is tactical a long-lasting but passing fad? Will people ever grow out of the tactical aesthetic? If not, will it continue to influence and negatively impact knife designs?

Why do you see the trend toward "tactical" (however one chooses to define the term) knives as the possible death knell of more "traditional" style knives? As others have said, I just see it as adding more variety and giving me further options. I don't think anything need to be "done." There will always be a market for all sorts of knives, and, as with any other product, if there's someone willing to pay for it, there's someone willing to make it. Free markets tend to take care of themselves, though they may not always go the way a particular individual wishes they would.
 
I carry a slipjoints. They just cut the type of stuff I cut better.

I collect all types of knives from daggers around to balisongs and just about anything in between. I am glad we have the plethora of choices that we have.

Old and new by Darrel Ralph
ddr.jpg


2012 Blade Show Best Folder by Ken Erickson.
KenDoc1.jpg


micartabone.jpg


A fantastic dagger by Vince Evans
Evans_Dagger-web1.jpg


EDC tray:
Tray.jpg


open-1.jpg


Walter25th.jpg


JohnMark.jpg


Sava1Mark.jpg


Williams_B07_01-ww.jpg


Sava2Mark.jpg


brend_30-ww.jpg


RayMark.jpg

Some of those daggers are downright phenomenal!
 
I saved this site several years ago, only because I like the photographers work.
(my late dad was a great photog. as well as one of my Ex's being a prof. photog.)
Funny thing, there's only 'one' photo on the whole site where I can spot knives.
Viewer beware... Tac. overload ahead.
http://bigdomphoto.blogspot.com/
 
Right, before the 1980's daggers did not exist, nor did push daggers, karambits, or WW1 trench knives...oh wait...hmmm...
And switchblades, they didn't exist before 1980, right?

Sure there are "tactical" knives and always have been - I'm sure even flint-knapped stone knives were used as offensive and defensive weapons against other people thousands or even millions of years ago - that was NOT my point.

My point is that there wasn't anywhere near the same level of marketing of "tactical" designs or features to the general public before the 1980's.

The public's general perception of knives solely as weapons is a TERRIBLE thing for knife collectors, knife users, and eventually even knife makers, because the public perception is already to the point where they view ANY knife (even a SAK!) as a dangerous weapon instead of a tool.

It is up to responsible citizens (especially knife users) to change that perception, or the Sheeple will try to take away even more of our rights just like these "Gun Control" idiots, don't you agree on that? If not, just look at knife crime statistics in the UK - they have no right to carry anything pointy in public without a valid reason (or a gun), and gun and knife crime has gone up because law-abiding citizens have no way to defend themselves.

For most of us a knife is simply a cutting tool, and a very bad choice of weapon against a gun, baseball bat, pipe wrench, or even a rock in a sock, unless you have a lot of hand-to-hand combat training that includes edged weapons.

If you want to represent knives as weapons instead of tools then don't be surprised when liberal lawmakers try to impose even more limitations on what kind of knife you can carry. That is my point.
 
Appeasing "sheeple" and going so far to try to guess what their perceptions and actions might be is kind of "sheepish" itself and quite subordinate, not to mention counterproductive.
 
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I think this boils down to individual preference. Yes, there will definitely be some companies that will hype 'tactical' knives just as there will be individuals who will do nothing more in buying them than to fondle them and fantasize about their use. However, before we throw the baby out with the bathwater, there is the fact that with the development of this new path, we as consumers have a greater variety of choice.

Imagine if manufacturers were to continue producing only knives in the traditional design and materials. Now consider that we have improved handles, better blade materials, sturdier sheaths - can we say that it in trying to be 'tactical' it has all been in vain? Having a wider range of choices gives us consumer sovereignty. Reducing it makes all us poorer. So I say, let it all continue. It then falls upon us to pick and choose what we like and in so doing it will communicate to the producers our true choices.
 
There are some good features in tactical knives. It's been driving the industry for over twenty years. We've basically turned it into a golden age of knives simply because we're no longer shackled by designs based in the early 20th century. Even more could be done - I don't yet see a G10 scaled multiblade locking service knife like a Victorinox. I did just pick up a carbon fiber scaled bolster liner lock. Traditional, yet tactical. Spear point hollow grind, with a well fitted match at the curve in the bolsters.

On the other hand, it's not the "tacticool" that is the problem. It's who buys them, how they get promoted, and what they are touted to be useful for. That focus comes from young males jockeying for social position in a group. They grab on to tactical as a concept to promote themselves as a significant role model, to become the group alpha. Which is why you see all the overblown hype and testosterone surrounding them. Makers cater to it to sell them, buyers eat it up to adorn themselves and elevate their self image. They could get by with a simple stockman like their grandpa did. Likely, grandpa didn't need to preen his self image as much - he knew his role and place in society, and it wasn't questioned or trash talked as much as in todays.

Follow the tactical buyer down the rabbit hole of their interests, you find tacticool watches over $400, the knives, special sights and accessories for guns and rifles, enormously powerful flashlights, expensive cell phones that can survive a nuclear holocaust even if the towers don't. And they can still play games on them until the batteries run out.

It's not about tactical in knives as much as knives just reflect what's happening in society. Might have something to do with young men running around with no fathers and trying to find their place in life.
 
There are some good features in tactical knives. It's been driving the industry for over twenty years. We've basically turned it into a golden age of knives simply because we're no longer shackled by designs based in the early 20th century. Even more could be done - I don't yet see a G10 scaled multiblade locking service knife like a Victorinox. I did just pick up a carbon fiber scaled bolster liner lock. Traditional, yet tactical. Spear point hollow grind, with a well fitted match at the curve in the bolsters.

On the other hand, it's not the "tacticool" that is the problem. It's who buys them, how they get promoted, and what they are touted to be useful for. That focus comes from young males jockeying for social position in a group. They grab on to tactical as a concept to promote themselves as a significant role model, to become the group alpha. Which is why you see all the overblown hype and testosterone surrounding them. Makers cater to it to sell them, buyers eat it up to adorn themselves and elevate their self image. They could get by with a simple stockman like their grandpa did. Likely, grandpa didn't need to preen his self image as much - he knew his role and place in society, and it wasn't questioned or trash talked as much as in todays.

Follow the tactical buyer down the rabbit hole of their interests, you find tacticool watches over $400, the knives, special sights and accessories for guns and rifles, enormously powerful flashlights, expensive cell phones that can survive a nuclear holocaust even if the towers don't. And they can still play games on them until the batteries run out.

It's not about tactical in knives as much as knives just reflect what's happening in society. Might have something to do with young men running around with no fathers and trying to find their place in life.


There is one heck of a lot of truth in that post.... :thumbup:
 
Paranoid?

Guess the bad guys are looking for you.... LOL

In my experience, it is that some may percieve you as "paranoid" for carrying a gun, knife, whatever. When the situation arises that you need that piece of equipment you are then "prepared". I, personally, believe in preparation.
 
My point is that there wasn't anywhere near the same level of marketing of "tactical" designs or features to the general public before the 1980's.

My point is that there wasn't anywhere near the same level of marketing of "tactical" designs or features to the general public before the 1980's.

You may want to consider just how much marketing and sales as a whole has changed since the '80s. It used to be cliche and laughable, but in recent decades marketing has become an incredibly effective and focused industry which drives sales across the globe and greatly influences culture itself; the results of that are plain to see with knives, vehicles, food, etc. They create a market, populate it with decent products, and then leverage an excellent understanding of how people tick in order to drive the sales. Tactical knives are a niche which was likely always available, hence the presence of bowies, swords, tomahawks, trench knives, etc before the period in time you're pointing to. After all, its not as if people haven't been making and selling military-inspired products for thousands of years now. The difference is that the salesmen have just gotten much better at it and are able to reach wider audiences globally now rather than hawking wares from a market stand.

Capitalizing on a niche market then fostering its growth has driven profits and, in my opinion, we have all benefited from it as knife nuts. There are a ton of manufacturers out there now that are pushing boundaries and innovating, due at least in part to the efforts of very effective salesmanship since the '80s. Say what you want about companies like Cold Steel's tactics, but they are undoubtably effective and that results in a larger customer base for the rest of the innovators to create in.
 
In my experience, it is that some may percieve you as "paranoid" for carrying a gun, knife, whatever. When the situation arises that you need that piece of equipment you are then "prepared". I, personally, believe in preparation.


There is preparation then there is going out like one is entering a combat zone.... ;)
 
I resent the idea that if I don't want some thin-bladed traditional that I'm somehow caught up in a desire to be "tactical". It's kind of insulting to assume everyone who buys a knife that others see as "tactical" didn't buy it for features they liked instead of the percieved image it gives them. If a person wants a thick blade, maybe they don't need to worry about slicing stuff too much and use their knife as a pry-bar more often. If a person wants jimping maybe they just like jimping? Rough scales for people that like extra grip? I don't see how people's preferences turns them into "tacticool" wannabes when all they're doing is buying a knife they like for their style of use.

To me it sounds like someone trying to tell another what the best tool for a job is despite what the person's preferences may be. So meanwhile, say I buy an ESEE knife... Is that because I want to be "tacticool" or because I've seen a thousand and one guys raving about what good woods knives they make?

I could argue that people obsessed over traditional designs are trying to be nostalgiac or resistant to new concepts and changes. Kind of like the VHS hold-overs when DVD came out. The "Hate everything that's new" type of people.
 
I resent the idea that if I don't want some thin-bladed traditional that I'm somehow caught up in a desire to be "tactical". It's kind of insulting to assume everyone who buys a knife that others see as "tactical" didn't buy it for features they liked instead of the percieved image it gives them. If a person wants a thick blade, maybe they don't need to worry about slicing stuff too much and use their knife as a pry-bar more often. If a person wants jimping maybe they just like jimping? Rough scales for people that like extra grip? I don't see how people's preferences turns them into "tacticool" wannabes when all they're doing is buying a knife they like for their style of use.

To me it sounds like someone trying to tell another what the best tool for a job is despite what the person's preferences may be. So meanwhile, say I buy an ESEE knife... Is that because I want to be "tacticool" or because I've seen a thousand and one guys raving about what good woods knives they make?

I could argue that people obsessed over traditional designs are trying to be nostalgiac or resistant to new concepts and changes. Kind of like the VHS hold-overs when DVD came out. The "Hate everything that's new" type of people.
 
The whole "tacticool mall ninja" thing is overblown by those who hate the idea of it. Most people who buy tacticool knives aren't interested in cutlery and buy something that looks neat to them.
 
I resent the idea that if I don't want some thin-bladed traditional that I'm somehow caught up in a desire to be "tactical". It's kind of insulting to assume everyone who buys a knife that others see as "tactical" didn't buy it for features they liked instead of the percieved image it gives them. If a person wants a thick blade, maybe they don't need to worry about slicing stuff too much and use their knife as a pry-bar more often. If a person wants jimping maybe they just like jimping? Rough scales for people that like extra grip? I don't see how people's preferences turns them into "tacticool" wannabes when all they're doing is buying a knife they like for their style of use.

To me it sounds like someone trying to tell another what the best tool for a job is despite what the person's preferences may be. So meanwhile, say I buy an ESEE knife... Is that because I want to be "tacticool" or because I've seen a thousand and one guys raving about what good woods knives they make?

I could argue that people obsessed over traditional designs are trying to be nostalgiac or resistant to new concepts and changes. Kind of like the VHS hold-overs when DVD came out. The "Hate everything that's new" type of people.


That's called stereotyping.....

And for the most part it does work MOST of the time despite of what some would have people believe...

I just tell people if they don't want to be seen as a certain type then don't fit into the stereotype then they won't be.

People make their own choices and if they don't like how they are seen or grouped as then they can change if they choose to...

It's all about choices...
 
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