Taking knives apart

I don't know that there is anyway to fix this, it's a cost of doing business for Spyderco and an added cost for us Spyderco supporters.

Nonetheless, this is a great thread started by Sal and maybe a few people will take heed to it.
 
Sal,

I’m in the camp that you can’t please everyone and that some or any effort to find a solution will translate as cost of doing business.

I think one most important aspect to be clear is that are you serving a mass market or select enthusiasts? It’s a completely different market with different profit margins and volume, thus requires different policy. Probably both segments, as you mentioned you’re serving the ELU. But who actually is ELU? What is the composition? You’ll need to figure out the percentages and how to cross subsidies the support cost. At least don’t make a policy for selective enthusiasts and apply them to mass market, or the other way around.
Probably different warranty based on MSRP range? Or put a warranty category (A, B, C) and each product will be assigned a category.

You’re much wiser than me, you know there’s no easy answer ;)

Edit to add, opening up a knife is my way to clean up and maintain. The other day, my Stretch HAP40, has speck of rust on several areas on the liner that faces the FRN. Rubbed it off & oiled it. I wouldn’t know if I don’t regularly take it apart. I can’t imagine how dirty & rusty it’s going to be if it’s pinned.
 
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I've always wondered why so many think it's necessary to disassemble perfectly good knives under the guise of "maintenance". Knives aren't guns that need to be field stripped every time you use them. I wish I had a solution, Sal.
 
Painful restocking fee unless it is a warranty issue IMO is the only answer.

I heard from a local dealer that they have had buyers request exchanges because a blade was 1/4mm off centre or they didn’t like how the Spyderco Camo scales didn’t match perfectly. Seriously?

Buyers remorse or stupidity like disassembling a knife for no good reason shouldn’t cost buyers like me more money.

The only reason I wouldn’t personally want to be directed back to Spyderco for ANY return/issue is because I am in Canada. In the US? Why make the dealers who make thin margins deal with stupidity. The manufacturer can triage and fix or deny much easier.

Just my $0.02.
 
Disassembling and then returning a knife is deeply ugly. Once you've mucked around with it, it's yours. And it's even worse that dealers are saddling you with these after accepting a bad return, particularly after you just raised MAP to help them out. Seems like a pretty crappy thing to do to the company. And for what it's worth, I have zero problems with dealers saying "You take it apart, you bought it". Case closed.

You all likely know where I stand on knife disassembly, obviously, and that I'm a big advocate for being able to maintain one's own tools. A tool that you can't maintain isn't yours, it's just rented from fate. And a return to red loctite and a warranty-voided-by-disassembly policy would likely take Spyderco off of my table for good. And of course, given that many other makers have unrestrictive warranties and reasonably-locked-tite screws and have stayed in business despite using them, there must be another solution. And for what it's worth, I think selling (not necessarily sending for free) internal parts could well be a part of the solution. Sell maintenance kits, if you must, which comes with all the hardware and washers and such for a given model. That's a nice middle ground.

But given that I probably have some role in this, as an advocate for disassembly, this is a nice reminder to post a discussion video to this end, basically saying exactly what I said above: Once you take a knife apart, it's yours. Warranty issues happening down the road due to manufacturing defects aside, you tune it, you bought it. Sleazes gonna sleaze, and this is where dealers need to put their feet down, but this is something I'd assumed people just understood. And it seems that they don't. Oh, humans.
 
One warning issued for inappropriate language.
 
NickShabazz said:
A tool that you can't maintain isn't yours, it's just rented from fate. And a return to red loctite and a warranty-voided-by-disassembly policy would likely take Spyderco off of my table for good. And of course, given that many other makers have unrestrictive warranties and reasonably-locked-tite screws and have stayed in business despite using them, there must be another solution. And for what it's worth, I think selling (not necessarily sending for free) internal parts could well be a part of the solution. Sell maintenance kits, if you must, which comes with all the hardware and washers and such for a given model. That's a nice middle ground.
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I couldn't agree with this more. I got out of Spydercos a few years back because I got tired of blue or even red loctite being present when I wanted to disassemble my knife to clean it. Really made it a pain, and in disassembling actually caused more harm than good in stripping out some screw heads. Recently started getting back into them because I needed more flavor in my life, and NOTHING cuts like a Spyderco!

Maybe one answer would be small amounts of purple loctite instead of blue or red? Or no loctite? I think that may be a lot of people's problem in disassembling, at least in the past that I know of.

I would gladly purchase replacement parts if it meant I didn't have to send a knife in and I could maintain it myself. My knives are like children, and I'd rather keep them close than send them away for a couple weeks at a time...not to mention I enjoy spending time getting to know them and their personalities. To me, not being able to maintain my own knife is like having a kid but then just hiring a nanny to raise him.

Sounds like the biggest problem is the folks who return knives to dealers. So maybe as others have said there is some way to train dealers how to inspect if a knife has been tinkered with? I'd really hate for a few bad apples to spoil it for the rest of us.
 
Between a rock & a hard place.

Many people avoid companies who have blanket policies of voided warranties for taking apart their knife.

I like to tinker & take apart all my knives (it's a part of their maintenance)

The overuse of red locktite (now gone) and pinned handles play a huge factor if I will buy the knife or not.


I have never returned a knife & sent it back. Stores should be charging a restocking fee for taking back knives unless there was something obviously wrong with it from factory. I recently received a brand new PM2 in blurple from an online authorized dealer. 1 clip screw was stripped right out the box, not laying flat with all the other screws and when I attempted to tighten it, just spun. I contacted Spyderco and they sent out some replacement screws (had planned on changing tip up anyways) added some purple locktite & voila! Good as new.



***** Selling maintenance kits & parts I think will help make up for the lost money.
 
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I know I prefer to be able to take my knife's apart and be able to get part's for them because my problem is sometimes the shipping cost's are more then it is worth to send something back.
Here are a few classic examples is what I have found with the PM2 and Manix 2's that I own,I own a Manix 2 in S110v and 2 of the ones made for bladehq in M4 and also and I have 3 PM2's.
With the PM2's I got one for my dad and it just flew open when flipped it open but the next 3 I got for myself would not open as fast as my dads for reason and what I first tried doing was loosening the pivot screws to point the blade would be off center and it still would not flip open like my dads so I tried adjusting the screws on the stop pins and that was the problem they were so tight that it was pinching the frame inwards enough that binding up something inside,I was able to adjust my PM2's so that the blades were centered and really slam open when flipped.

I also found the same problem with my Manix 2's a friend of mine got a Manix 2 before me I had been eyeing them up for a while and he purchased one before I did and his flipped open very fast and when I got my first one in S110v it was the same problem all over again,I tried adjusting the pivot screws and they were fine but the 2 small screws where the at the front end of the Manix 2 where stop pin would be if this knife used a stop pin were to tight as well and as soon as I took them out re-blue locktited them and just and was careful as to much I tightened them and they all flew open much better.

I also called Spyderco to ask if this was normal as I was told by a knife dealer I did not break them in long enough but here's the funny I tried for a week straight in my spare time with my first PM2 for 3 weeks in my spare time everyday with the pivot adjust a bit on the snug side working the blade back and forth by hand trying to get the washers to breakin and loosen up and when I say in my spare time were talking 4 hours or more a day when I watched TV and it never loosened up.

Now here my view on it,I really love Spyderco knives and that's all I buy pretty much but heres my problem why should send a knife back if it won't flip open the way it should when it should be flipping open properly when I get it,I have been able to adjust every Spyderco knife from right out of the box to flipping open just fine every time if they are a bit tight,I would imagine that Spyderco use's torque wrench's and once they screws are torqued they most likely can't back them out if they don't flip open really smoothly.
None of my comments are a nock against Spyderco just my take on I don't like sending thing's back I can fix really easily.
 
Just a thought for the advocates of "no Loctite". I posted a picture of my CF/S90V Para2 a few years back, and someone commented that it was missing a screw. I had changed the clip position for left hand carry, but other than that had never touched a Torx to any of the other screws. The medium strength threadlocker they were using had proved insufficient to keep the screws in place in normal use. When the Warranty department kindly sent me replacement screws, they went in with red Loctite. No more problems.

With all due respect to the opinions of others, my opinion is that manufacturer and customers alike would be money ahead if Spyderco didn't serve the market segment that believe disassembly is required for routine maintenance of a knife. I have about a thousand knives that have never been taken apart at all, and a few that have been to correct problems or for modification. But let's face it, most knives today are fidget toys rather than cutting tools.
 
yablanowitz said:
my opinion is that manufacturer and customers alike would be money ahead if Spyderco didn't serve the market segment that believe disassembly is required for routine maintenance of a knife
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That’s not really an opinion though - that’s a guess in lieu of data. I have to assume that Sal has the sales and market data to determine which market is more profitable to serve, and if the markets can be segmented and served in different ways (e.g., different warranties by product line, as someone mentioned above).

Saying “I don’t disassemble, so I don’t think anyone should” doesn’t really help the conversation, unless you have any specific data (not anecdotes) that support that argument.
 
I agree I don't take mine apart to clean them there is no need just soap and water to them,I do take mine apart however if I want to put Allen Putman scales on one of my Spyderco's however.
 
I didn't say I don't disassemble, I said it isn't necessary for routine maintenance. When it is actually necessary, pinned construction does not deter me. I know how to take knives apart and put them back together correctly. I know how to do the same things with internal combustion engines, steam turbines, pumps, compressors, valves and nuclear reactors. Just because something can be taken apart doesn't mean that doing so is necessary, or even a good idea.
 
While such actions as tinkering and returning a knife as something I certainly don't condone dealers need to due some work on checking out the returns and not refunding every return blindly. I also want my right to maintain my knives including the right to disassemble as needed without completely voiding a warranty. I understand the business end and what a business must do to maintain product integrity and profits.
 
yablanowitz said:
Just because something can be taken apart doesn't mean that doing so is necessary, or even a good idea.
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It's not about necessary, though. Some people take apart a '67 Ford engine for fun. I take apart and modify knives for fun. If we're talking about necessary, my needs would be met with a Leatherman and a decent chef's knife.

I get that, for you, knives are tools to be used, not played with. I'm just saying that, for many people on this forum, knives go beyond that into hobby items. If Spyderco were to switch back to permanent Loctite, or pinned construction, many of those people (myself included) would likely avoid most Spydercos going forward. It's up to Sal & team whether that segment of the market is small enough that it's worth ignoring in exchange for reducing their overhead on returns and warranty repairs.
 
tyyreaun said:
It's not about necessary, though. Some people take apart a '67 Ford engine for fun. I take apart and modify knives for fun. If we're talking about necessary, my needs would be met with a Leatherman and a decent chef's knife.

I get that, for you, knives are tools to be used, not played with. I'm just saying that, for many people on this forum, knives go beyond that into hobby items. If Spyderco were to switch back to permanent Loctite, or pinned construction, many of those people (myself included) would likely avoid most Spydercos going forward. It's up to Sal & team whether that segment of the market is small enough that it's worth ignoring in exchange for reducing their overhead on returns and warranty repairs.
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Do those people watch a you tube video and then tear down a F-150 engine, can't figure out how to put it back together and then drop it off at their dealership for a full refund using the excuses "well those things are meant to come apart"?

This goes directly to dishonest people who are writing cheques their mechanical ability can't cash. The new school desperate for IG clicks crowd.
 
I rarely disassemble knives.
That said, most of the knives I have disassembled have been Spydercos, and for "aesthetic improvement". I disassembled a Mantra 2 in order to have the scales Cerakoted, and a few PM2s to install aftermarket scales. One of those PM2s had a couple of partially stripped screws when I got it - one of these days, I'll get around to purchasing replacements. I'd like to purchase them directly from Spyderco; but, if necessary, I'll source them elsewhere.
That said, I'm firmly in the "If you tinker, you do not return" camp. Mess with the fasteners, and you own it - plain and simple. Doesn't matter if the knife was purchased from a maker, a dealer, or an individual.
 
Danke42 said:
Do those people watch a you tube video and then tear down a F-150 engine, can't figure out how to put it back together and then drop it off at their dealership for a full refund using the excuses "well those things are meant to come apart"?
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Absolutely - I don't think anyone is saying that returning an abused knife for a refund is acceptable. There is certainly a learning curve to taking apart knives, and any mistakes made should be completely the responsibility of the person tinkering, not the manufacturer or the retailer.

Going back to Sal's post, Spyderco does have a problem with people returning knives they messed with and are trying to figure out how to resolve it. Some people are saying that one solution is to disallow disassembly both via policy and design (e.g., pinned construction). My response is that such solutions would alienate a portion of their customer base, and I would recommend they consider other solutions (disassembly indicators or market segmentation) as an alternative, before instituting an outright ban on disassembly.
 
tyyreaun said:
Absolutely - I don't think anyone is saying that returning an abused knife for a refund is acceptable. There is certainly a learning curve to taking apart knives, and any mistakes made should be completely the responsibility of the person tinkering, not the manufacturer or the retailer.

Going back to Sal's post, Spyderco does have a problem with people returning knives they messed with and are trying to figure out how to resolve it. Some people are saying that one solution is to disallow disassembly both via policy and design (e.g., pinned construction). My response is that such solutions would alienate a portion of their customer base, and I would recommend they consider other solutions (disassembly indicators or market segmentation) as an alternative, before instituting an outright ban on disassembly.
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It's pretty easy to tell if a knife was taken apart. The problem would be is dealers won't have the time to make a close inspection of a return.

The only remedy for that is sealed packing that when unsealed means the item is no longer new. No exceptions Do Not get your money back.
 
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