Taking knives apart

[tyyreaun]

The only remedy for that is sealed packing that when unsealed means the item is no longer new. No exceptions Do Not get your money back.

I don't think that's the only solution. Think about anti-tamper labels on electronics, where you can still try the device out, but you need to cut the label (and void the warranty) to get inside the case. Something along those lines would still let people inspect if the knife works for them (ergonomics, etc.) while making disassembly obvious.

 

[Danke42]

I don't think that's the only solution. Think about anti-tamper labels on electronics, where you can still try the device out, but you need to cut the label (and void the warranty) to get inside the case. Something along those lines would still let people inspect if the knife works for them (ergonomics, etc.) while making disassembly obvious.

Well if they go to some sort of anti-tamper sticker or band that would sure settle those LNIB for sale ads.

 

[jay_tx]

I couldn't agree with this more. I got out of Spydercos a few years back because I got tired of blue or even red loctite being present when I wanted to disassemble my knife to clean it. Really made it a pain, and in disassembling actually caused more harm than good in stripping out some screw heads. Recently started getting back into them because I needed more flavor in my life, and NOTHING cuts like a Spyderco!

Maybe one answer would be small amounts of purple loctite instead of blue or red? Or no loctite? I think that may be a lot of people's problem in disassembling, at least in the past that I know of.

I would gladly purchase replacement parts if it meant I didn't have to send a knife in and I could maintain it myself. My knives are like children, and I'd rather keep them close than send them away for a couple weeks at a time...not to mention I enjoy spending time getting to know them and their personalities. To me, not being able to maintain my own knife is like having a kid but then just hiring a nanny to raise him.

Sounds like the biggest problem is the folks who return knives to dealers. So maybe as others have said there is some way to train dealers how to inspect if a knife has been tinkered with? I'd really hate for a few bad apples to spoil it for the rest of us.

Nicely said!

 

[`br4dz-]

Spyderco's have been my go-to work knife for some time. That said, dirt, dust, debris, etc. gets caught in all crevices and tiny places in my blades and the only proper way to clean it all out is to disassemble them, especially on my manix 2 where the action gets horrendous due to the dust build up, which only takes a few weeks or months to have happen may I add. It's not rocket science to take apart a knife and assemble it back together, yet many companies try to act like it is, usually to cover their behinds from poor tolerances. Not saying this is Spyderco's stance, but I don't like being told an expensive product I own is void and I cannot be helped because I took it apart to thoroughly clean it so it continues to function as intended. I've bought used knives where people haven't taken it apart but used soap and water to rinse it out, and there were small rust spots on the liners. So (not trying to rant) what is the solution now, we need to send in our knives and pay for shipping to have them cleaned twice a year? By all means deny returns if some amateur bent a washer or broke a mechanism and wanted his money back, but come on.

 

[jay_tx]

I'm sure there are many of us that own a few Spydercos and can sacrifice being without a folder a few weeks out of the year to have it cleaned but is it really necessary to send it in? What about the customers who rely on that one Spyderco as a necessary tool throughout the whole year, can they go without a reliable knife for a few weeks?

I say that if a customer takes apart a knife and cannot put it back together to its original function as intended from factory then it is voided.

If the knife is able to fold and stay closed, lock and stay locked after being taken apart for cleaning from a customer, then it is functioning as it should from factory and should still have warranty.

 

[Bigbobg]

Maybe they should be made with rivets instead of screws. That would discourage tinkering.

 

[MarkN86]

As much fun as it is to tinker with a knife it really isn't that great of an idea to keep taking it apart and putting it back together a ton unless really necessary. Wear and tear occurs, slack is developed, and then the manufacturer gets blamed for things being loose and screws stripping out. For the longest time people used permanently constructed pinned slipjoints and lockbacks and never had that much issue with them. If a screw works its way loose I don't think it's a terrible crime to tighten it back down, or even apply a little threadlocker to it and put it back in.

With the exception of blade related issues or obvious defects, I feel like if you want to take your knife apart then you are accepting responsibility for repairs and your warranty should be voided. Assuming each knife is put together properly, once it leaves the shop its really not the company's fault anymore if the end user messes it up. Those who have the know-how wouldn't think this is a problem anyway if they were allowed to buy screws and other parts when needed so they could do their own repairs. I'm not really in the knife industry to know all the details, but I think there could be considerable profit in selling screw packs and small parts to those who like to disassemble.

I wonder if a small plastic tab could be put in somewhere that has to be broken to get the knife apart? If it was not an eyesore but was visible on the inside of the liner it would work as proof of disassembly.

 

[anycal]

I don't think that's the only solution. Think about anti-tamper labels on electronics, where you can still try the device out, but you need to cut the label (and void the warranty) to get inside the case. Something along those lines would still let people inspect if the knife works for them (ergonomics, etc.) while making disassembly obvious.

Not sure where you would place that sticker.

When it comes to new knives, most complaints I hear are around centering and action. But to adjust centering or action, you don't have to dissemble the knife. You only have to loosen the screws. Which, according to this thread, some mess up, and then proceed to return the knife as new.

 

[NickShabazz]

Well, I've done my part to raise awareness of just how unpleasant returns after disassembly are, and to address some of the other things brought up here. I know not everybody agrees with my feelings on disassembly, and not everybody sees anti-disassembly policies as user-hostile, but hopefully the PSA helps the true root of the problem, bad behavior, maybe a little bit:

 

[SpyderPhreak]

Posted this over on the other forum, I'll put it here too:

Generally, I dislike it when companies purposely go out of their way to make a product non-serviceable to the end user.

But that's only because I'm generally my own warranty. It just makes it harder to fix, but ultimately, I still usually wind up getting the job done. I fix everything I can, whether the manufacturer intended it or not, if it's gone out of the typical 30-day to one year warranty. But that's only because I have the engineering/electronic/mechanical skills, and the tools to properly do so. 98% of the people out there don't, to put it bluntly. The problem is that half (or more) of that 98% thinks they do.

Perfect recent example, trolling motor on one of my club's fishing boats went out on us. I know exactly what's wrong, and it's maybe a $2 part on the main board that needs to be replaced. But the manufacturer potted the entire board in epoxy 1" deep. No getting that part off to replace it without really messing up other components around it.

Solution? Replace the entire board myself to the tune of ~$100, or pay a service center to do the same job for ~$250. A brand new motor goes for ~$375...

 

[Danke42]

Posted this over on the other forum, I'll put it here too:

Generally, I dislike it when companies purposely go out of their way to make a product non-serviceable to the end user.

But that's only because I'm generally my own warranty. It just makes it harder to fix, but ultimately, I still usually wind up getting the job done. I fix everything I can, whether the manufacturer intended it or not, if it's gone out of the typical 30-day to one year warranty. But that's only because I have the engineering/electronic/mechanical skills, and the tools to properly do so. 98% of the people out there don't, to put it bluntly. The problem is that half (or more) of that 98% thinks they do.

Perfect recent example, trolling motor on one of my club's fishing boats went out on us. I know exactly what's wrong, and it's maybe a $2 part on the main board that needs to be replaced. But the manufacturer potted the entire board in epoxy 1" deep. No getting that part off to replace it without really messing up other components around it.

Solution? Replace the entire board myself to the tune of ~$100, or pay a service center to do the same job for ~$250. A brand new motor goes for ~$375...

They've been doing that epoxy thing since the 70s.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

They've been doing that epoxy thing since the 70s.

Oh yes, I know. Before that in other industries. There can be some valid reasons for doing it.

The only thing you can convince me that is a good reason in this example is to make things waterproof. However, there are other ways to do so (some cheaper), like sealing the housing or using conformal coatings. Epoxy is just a middle finger to the consumer in this application, IMO. Especially with the replacement costs for a pretty simple board. Shouldn't be more than $40-$50. But I digress.

 

[uxo2]

Putting something like this on the scales.

Peel away...

Except make it Tamper resistant..
There has to be a company out there that makes it.

It will serve Double duty.
Protect the scales
And
Seal broken.. it's yours.

 

[tyyreaun]

Seal broken.. it's yours.

The one thing I'd say is worth considering is whether basic pivot adjustments are worthy of voiding the right to return. A lot of times, if a knife either has stiff action, or blade play, a quarter turn on the pivot will clear it right up. Would you (or Spyderco) prefer that customers return knives that have (for example) too much blade play out of the box, or should they be ok with customers tweaking the pivot a bit to see if that resolves the problem, before deciding to return it?

I'm not really expecting anyone to have a clear and complete answer to that - obviously it depends largely on the person's skill, quality of equipment, etc. Someone with a good Wiha torx set can probably adjust the pivot such that no one would be able to identify it's been adjusted, while another guy with a $5 Amazon special set, using the wrong bit size, can chew up the pivot in no time.

 

[uxo2]

The one thing I'd say is worth considering is whether basic pivot adjustments are worthy of voiding the right to return.
.

Everyone has a different flavor for pivot adjustment.

But how would you feel if you received a ""NEW"" knife and the pivot is so loose and it has side play because some joker returned it
and Spyderco eats again because it's a new knife and you generate a thread calling out
the sloppy product.


Break the seal...
Not new.

 

[G0blin]

there seems to be a large disconnect between the groups of knife owners on display here: trust the manufacturer to get it right 100% of the time [through initial QC or warranty], are simply uninterested in taking apart knives, those who take them apart for maintenance, and those who enjoy aftermarket customisation.
everyone in this thread agrees that purchasing a knife, taking it apart, then reassembling it poorly is NOT eligible for a return to the manufacturer, and anyone who tries this is about as useful to the industry at large as a melted welly boot.
what has me concerned is how quickly some people jump to complicated anti-tampering methods like perma-locktite proprietary hardware, rivets, etc. I own a Buck 110 that I bought directly from Buck's custom shop, and made all the various material selections I wanted, and I paid full price for it. I love this knife, it sits on my desk for whatever I need it for, but I hardly ever carry it. why? I living Florida, and the humidity for my fair British sensibilities, can sometimes be a task and a half. Needless to say, the fine Cherrywood handles on my 110 become slippery as ice at the first sign of moisture, and as far as I am currently aware, the only modification to alleviate this, is SANDING. I would dearly PAY for some kind of aftermarket help in this matter, but Buck's design is 100% one and done. you cannot remove or replace the scales.

Why is any of that important? because a knife I paid for, because of the Manufacturer's choices, is 100% non-modifiable. rendering a knife I love, a desk knife at best. one could easily say that it was my fault for buying that particular configuration, and that this entire example comes down to buyer's remorse. but what I am trying to illustrate is simple: OPTIONS ARE BETTER THAN NONE.

this concludes my first post here, hello to you all.

 

[5-by-5]

everyone in this thread agrees that purchasing a knife, taking it apart, then reassembling it poorly is NOT eligible for a return to the manufacture

No. Absolutely not. Anything other than looking it over, like at a retail store, and you shouldn't return it without restock fee. Disassembly of any kind and you can't return it.

 

[G0blin]

Disassembly of any kind and you can't return it.

respectfully, I would say that the only two usecases where the buyer would even consider sending it back are:
1. they noticed something wasn't correct with the knife
2. they plan on doing what has already been accepted by all as a valid case for rejection by the manufacturer.

if 2, everyone is in agreement that this is scummy and not okay.

if 1, most knife buyers with any sense of competency are likely not going to don rubber gloves and tweezers to delicately put the knife back in the box, and wait another 2+ weeks to go through an RMA process. they're going to try to see what's wrong. this is made more likely, since it can be days or weeks before any fault is noticed through use.

so this is my point: if a knife owner with a degree of competency and care [which we have established are likely appalled at the second scenario] were to notice a fault in a knife, successfully disassemble said knife, but are UNABLE to right the problem at hand, I see absolutely no reason why a properly reassembled knife cannot be sent back for repairs.

it could be I'm misunderstanding the arguments being presented. I have no expectations of getting a REFUND if I disassemble a knife. I DO however expect not to be denied a REPAIR of a knife simply on the case that I took it apart to see if I could fix it myself and have NOT caused any additional damage to the internals.

 

[Phixt]

Where do I take my PM2, flytanium scales and other custom parts for professional installation?

Thank you.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

Putting something like this on the scales.

Peel away...

Except make it Tamper resistant..
There has to be a company out there that makes it.

It will serve Double duty.
Protect the scales
And
Seal broken.. it's yours.

Something like, oh, I don't know, peel ply? Yes folks, that why it's named that, it's peeled off the composite after the vacuum bagging and curing processes.

(Skip to 0:50 to see the layup process beginning.)

Unfortunately, I know that's not feasible. Interesting idea though.